CFA part Deux (Page 13)

No one in the US is denied the basic right to marry.
Also, no one has the unfettered right to marry anyone they want. 

Agreed to a point.

The choice to do what we ought not do is not freedom, it is license.

The question then is what ought we do?
Regarding marriage, there is a right answer and a wrong answer. 

For example, we ought not commit adultery. I hope everyone can agree with that one.
Therefore, choosing to commit adultery is not freedom. 

Everything then regarding marriage unpacks from that premise.

Yes, cosmology.

What's the secular humanist answer to why anything exists?

I'm going to head out now for a while to get things together for a fishing trip at the St. Lawrence.
We leave first thing in the morning.

St. Lawrence is the 3rd century Christian martyr who was put to death by the emperor
for his answer to the demand of the emperor that he produce the Church's treasures.
Upon which Lawrence produced the poor.

Lawrence was burned to death on a gridiron.
Legend has it that at one point he told his tormentors, "Turn me over, I'm done on this side."

Lawrence would have been right at home with the pleasure of CoJ debates.  

Thank goodness.  I actually do have to work at some point today.........

 Have a great trip Don.

peace out. 

When you say you were an outspoken atheist, I am curious what you believed at that time, and what arguments you heard that persuaded you that not only is there a prime mover, but it is a personalized one, that manifested specifically as a specific individual in a given time and place? 

As you can imagine, it's a long story.  Probably better suited for a PM so as not to sidetrack the thread too much.

Fair enough

haha are you new here?

lol, so true

____________________

When I see your name it sounds like two wood in my head which is kind of funny given the premise of this thread.

I just found out the reason for all of my conflict and confusion.

I was reviewing my bible to find all the references that I believed showed that folks like Huckabee, Cathy, & other CFA supporters are actually going against Christ's teachings...

I was looking up things like: give unto cesar, judge not, hate the sin - love the sinner, do not be a hypocrite using church for personal agenda like the pharisees, love your enemy, the money and effort spent on politics should be better spend on things like feeding the poor, embracing the outcasts of society, etc.

Then it donned on me!

Those parts of the bible look like they are written in sarc font!

dam, i've been outed...  lol 

That's funny.  I think that's where a lot of christians go wrong.  They think they can convince you to believe, but I'm pretty sure with a high degree of certainty there is no argument, verse, or example I can give you that would make you say dam, i've been wrong all this time I now believe in God.

Heck, I was the same way, there was nothing anybody on earth could say to me.  I had to be broken down until I was laying in jail and I had nothing left to live for before I went out searching.  I knew who to talk to because there were people in my life who were bearing good fruit and when I was ready I talked to them.  It's for this reason that I try to bear good fruit and live a good biblically moral life so others know they can come to me if they need to.

I also think this is where a lot of churches really screw the pooch on the whole homosexuality issue.  Hate the sin, love the sinner... what the heck is that.  The church I go to is more about preaching the word of god to everyone.  We have plenty of gay people in our congregation and its our position that we all identify with some kind of sin in our lives (biblically speaking here) wether it's drinking, porn, adultery, gambling, sexually imorality, etc...  Jesus walked among the sinners, he didn't cast them out and demonize them.

Maybe go back and read the first chapter...

but then that is the problem with Biblical based argument...lots of cherry picking going on.

I basically left the church myself during the 1992 election for many of those same reasons.  I got the vote for person X because they want to lower our taxes which is solely the most important thing.  most people there made more in 1 year that most people will make in 10.  The final straw for me was.  You either with us and what we say or your against us.  I decided if I can not have my own thoughts and views (weather right or wrong) I would have to be against them.  They were happy to see me go I am sure since I worked hard to stop being a hypocrite myself.  I realized before all of the 2 issues before I know I was being one.  I still seek God and try to understand the teachings of Jesus I just will NOT do it in an organized setting.