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Gun Advocates, What Say You?? (Page 13)
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 2015-12-07 1:54 PM in reply to: tuwood |
 Chicago, IL |  Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You??I thought this was a thread on gun advocacy/control, but it seems to have steered into the even more ridiculous topic of religion. Every time I see people going back and forth on religion, I reminds me of this quote, "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person". As you were... |
| 2015-12-07 2:08 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro  15655    | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by Brit Abroad I thought this was a thread on gun advocacy/control, but it seems to have steered into the even more ridiculous topic of religion. Every time I see people going back and forth on religion, I reminds me of this quote, "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person". As you were... I sat with three other fellas yesterday and we loaded almost 3500 rounds of ammunition. Mostly 9mm and .45. Good time. Next weekend we'll load a few thousand for the rifles. Edited by Left Brain 2015-12-07 2:11 PM |
| 2015-12-07 2:10 PM in reply to: Brit Abroad |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by Brit Abroad I thought this was a thread on gun advocacy/control, but it seems to have steered into the even more ridiculous topic of religion. Every time I see people going back and forth on religion, I reminds me of this quote, "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person". As you were... So are you suggesting we shouldn't argue with you because it's impossible to win? |
| 2015-12-07 2:21 PM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? |
| 2015-12-07 2:43 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by Left Brain
That's pretty. I haven't tried reloading yet, but I do plan to pick it up in the near future.
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| 2015-12-07 2:50 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain
That's pretty. I haven't tried reloading yet, but I do plan to pick it up in the near future.
It's fun. We play around with all kinds of different powder loads and bullets. Loaded some .45 yesterday that feel like .22's when you shoot them. My buddy is the brains of the operation.....I just sit there and pull the lever, drink beer, scratch my nuts, and rail on against people from Europe.
Edited by Left Brain 2015-12-07 2:52 PM |
| 2015-12-07 3:00 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain
That's pretty. I haven't tried reloading yet, but I do plan to pick it up in the near future.
It's fun. We play around with all kinds of different powder loads and bullets. Loaded some .45 yesterday that feel like .22's when you shoot them. My buddy is the brains of the operation.....I just sit there and pull the lever, drink beer, scratch my nuts, and rail on against people from Europe.
hah, my luck I'd get the bullet stuck in the barrel if I tried something like that. |
| 2015-12-07 3:16 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 2263 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? "If I were King I would go ahead and supply the leader of ISIS with 72 virgins right now. In about a week he'd probably call off the war by letting his fellow radicals know it ain't really all it's cracked up to be." |
| 2015-12-07 9:07 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain
That's pretty. I haven't tried reloading yet, but I do plan to pick it up in the near future.
It's fun. We play around with all kinds of different powder loads and bullets. Loaded some .45 yesterday that feel like .22's when you shoot them. My buddy is the brains of the operation.....I just sit there and pull the lever, drink beer, scratch my nuts, and rail on against people from Europe.
I saw a movie yesterday where a guy had special bullets loaded with holy water, silver shavings, garlic, clove oil and white oak. Good for pretty much any of your garden variety supernatural creatures. You should make some of those. Plus they probably smell good. |
| 2015-12-07 9:33 PM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by Left Brain I saw a movie yesterday where a guy had special bullets loaded with holy water, silver shavings, garlic, clove oil and white oak. Good for pretty much any of your garden variety supernatural creatures. You should make some of those. Plus they probably smell good. Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Left Brain
That's pretty. I haven't tried reloading yet, but I do plan to pick it up in the near future.
It's fun. We play around with all kinds of different powder loads and bullets. Loaded some .45 yesterday that feel like .22's when you shoot them. My buddy is the brains of the operation.....I just sit there and pull the lever, drink beer, scratch my nuts, and rail on against people from Europe.
I don't know....we're not too bright Just your average garden variety gun nuts. We need help in most situations. |
| 2015-12-08 6:19 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Yeah, about that... http://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQOriginally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Murder isn't a tenant of the Christian faith. We are not instructed to kill non believers or to purge an area of people of different faiths. So yes, the guy may be a loner in the sense that he is not following what Christ actually taught. Last time I checked, there wasn't a movement in the Christian church to kill people at abortion clinics. Originally posted by tuwood Let me make sure I follow... So, a Muslim who kills someone because he thinks G-d wants him to is a jihadi terrorist, but, for example, a Christian guy who murders people at a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor on behalf of his G-d whom he believes opposes abortion is...what? Mentally ill? A loner? "Irrational"? Something other than a terrorist? They're BOTH terrorists. That one happens to celebrate the same holidays as you does not exempt him from being so. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn [ I actually agree with you 100%. The part I struggle with is that piece about "I think most of us can agree that anyone who is willing to take another human life with a gun or any other means is mentally ill to some extent". It's a pretty common meme in the liberal progressive media space that when a black criminal shoots someone, according to the mainstream press, he's a thug and an indictment of his entire culture, and when a person of middle eastern descent kills people, they're terrorists and represent an indictment of their culture, but when the shooter is a white guy, he's either "mentally ill" or a "loner". Nobody's calling the kid who killed those people in South Carolina or the one the other day in Colorado a terrorist, but you can bet that the couple from Berdoo will be considered radical muslims and so on... I guess my point is that we have to start being realistic about where the problems are actually coming from if we want a meaningful reduction in gun violence in the US. People are losing their minds over Syrian refugees because there might be terrorists among them, but there are plenty of people in the US who are just as capable as anyone in ISIS of doing horrible things and we sort of write them off as loners or mentally ill instead of calling them what they are-- terrorists, and instead we pretend that the bigger threat is external when it isn't. I get what you're saying, but the one difference between the Islamic Terrorists is that they are rational people who are religious warriors (jihadis) on a mission from God to kill all infidels. Sure, you can say religion is a mental illness but they truly believe this garbage. Murder has been a part of the Christian Church for a long long time. Crusades, inquisition, all other types of holy wars and excuses to kill. The hypocrisy is rich on the part of american christians. at some point, in every religion, men (and women) have found an excuse to use it to hurt people. the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can figure out a way to stop the crazies with the help of the muslims who don't want to kill everyone (most of them) lol, Murder has never been a part of the Christianity. Just because somebody says they kill for christianity doesn't make it "part of the church". Sure, there were atrocities, but we're talking about a war that was conducted hundreds of years ago. Find me any war that atrocities weren't committed. Christianity in no way shape or form condones violence of any kind,
Anybody who tries to go into the old testament to take things out of context does not understand Christianity. It's a standard liberal tactic to try and make Christianity into something that it is not. Riiiight, but you're a religious scholar who's' deeply familiar with the intricacies of the Koran, and you understand everything about it, so you'd never make some sweeping statement about an entire religion based on stuff you learned on infowars. It's a standard conservative tactic to try to paint anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian out to be a barbarian. Here's what Christianity is: it's an ancient religion with principles written down centuries ago by and interpreted and reinterpreted thousands of times by millions of people over the millennia. As such, it's been interpreted a number of ways and some of those ways involve violence, atrocities, etc. That doesn't mean the entire religion is a violent religion. To suggest that there is only one way to interpret any religion, including Christianity is absurd. You can't even agree on one calendar. Jim I will say it again, you cannot kill in the name of the Christian religion period. If someone in the past did, it was just as false teaching as it is today. There is no way the teachings of Christ can be interpreted that way. Christ was the "suffering servant" to his death. Not once did he teach hate, violence, or murder. On the other hand, there are teachings of Mohammad in the Quran that can be and are interpreted as a call to violence and murder. A very big difference. I have never said all Muslims are violent, they aren't. However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings. I'm sure what you say about Christianity is true, and that most Christians embody those positive values-- certainly most of the ones I know do. I'm not a religious scholar by any means and I would never suggest that I was an expert on any religion-- even my own. Where I get annoyed is when people who know very little about another religion or culture make judgments about it based on what they've been told. Just as there are violent passages in the Old Testament, there are violent passages in the Koran, it's true, but that there are those passages that have been interpreted as some to be a call to violence does not mean that Islam is a "violent religion" any more than the violent passages in the Bible suggest that Judaism or Christianity are. There are over a billion Muslims in the world and very, very few of them are terrorists. You also said, "However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings.", which is something one hears a lot these days. You said yourself on another thread that you don't personally know any Muslims or have much exposure to them where you live. So, I'd ask on what basis are you determining that "the Muslim community"-- to which, by your own admission, you have no personal exposure, isn't speaking out against violence? I can tell you that in NYC, which has a pretty big Muslim community, there's been an almost constant outpouring of sympathy for the victims of terrorism and criticism of radical Islam from the mainstream Muslim community here, going all the way back to the first WTC bombing. Is it possible that you're not aware of Muslim leaders in the US and abroad speaking out against radical Islam because the news outlets that you're listening to aren't showing it to you? They are, after all, the ones who are continuing to promote the false narrative that thousands and thousands of American Muslims cheered the WTC attack, which is unquestionably false. There are unquestionably radicalized Muslims in the US who seek to do us harm. To find them and stop them effectively will require help from the law-abiding and peaceful Muslim community who are not our enemies. To assume that every Muslim in the US is a potential terrorist is not only impractical, because we can no sooner investigate, imprison or deport all of them than we can all of the illegal immigrants, but to demonize law-abiding Muslims here and abroad plays right into the hands of our enemies who seek to divide us. We're all nervous and we have a right to be, but don't let that change your fundamental values or turn you against your fellow Americans. You have me confused with someone else. I have never said I don't personally know any Muslims, quite the contrary. The community I referred to is the radical Muslims. I am not demonizing anyone, or assuming that every Muslim is a terrorist, but say there is not a problem within that religion is denying the obvious. |
| 2015-12-08 6:30 AM in reply to: 0 |
| New user 900 , | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Jim I will say it again, you cannot kill in the name of the Christian religion period. If someone in the past did, it was just as false teaching as it is today. There is no way the teachings of Christ can be interpreted that way. Christ was the "suffering servant" to his death. Not once did he teach hate, violence, or murder. On the other hand, there are teachings of Mohammad in the Quran that can be and are interpreted as a call to violence and murder. A very big difference. I have never said all Muslims are violent, they aren't. However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings. Originally posted by tuwood Riiiight, but you're a religious scholar who's' deeply familiar with the intricacies of the Koran, and you understand everything about it, so you'd never make some sweeping statement about an entire religion based on stuff you learned on infowars. It's a standard conservative tactic to try to paint anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian out to be a barbarian. Here's what Christianity is: it's an ancient religion with principles written down centuries ago by and interpreted and reinterpreted thousands of times by millions of people over the millennia. As such, it's been interpreted a number of ways and some of those ways involve violence, atrocities, etc. That doesn't mean the entire religion is a violent religion. To suggest that there is only one way to interpret any religion, including Christianity is absurd. You can't even agree on one calendar. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Yeah, about that... http://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQOriginally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Murder isn't a tenant of the Christian faith. We are not instructed to kill non believers or to purge an area of people of different faiths. So yes, the guy may be a loner in the sense that he is not following what Christ actually taught. Last time I checked, there wasn't a movement in the Christian church to kill people at abortion clinics. Originally posted by tuwood Let me make sure I follow... So, a Muslim who kills someone because he thinks G-d wants him to is a jihadi terrorist, but, for example, a Christian guy who murders people at a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor on behalf of his G-d whom he believes opposes abortion is...what? Mentally ill? A loner? "Irrational"? Something other than a terrorist? They're BOTH terrorists. That one happens to celebrate the same holidays as you does not exempt him from being so. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn [ I actually agree with you 100%. The part I struggle with is that piece about "I think most of us can agree that anyone who is willing to take another human life with a gun or any other means is mentally ill to some extent". It's a pretty common meme in the liberal progressive media space that when a black criminal shoots someone, according to the mainstream press, he's a thug and an indictment of his entire culture, and when a person of middle eastern descent kills people, they're terrorists and represent an indictment of their culture, but when the shooter is a white guy, he's either "mentally ill" or a "loner". Nobody's calling the kid who killed those people in South Carolina or the one the other day in Colorado a terrorist, but you can bet that the couple from Berdoo will be considered radical muslims and so on... I guess my point is that we have to start being realistic about where the problems are actually coming from if we want a meaningful reduction in gun violence in the US. People are losing their minds over Syrian refugees because there might be terrorists among them, but there are plenty of people in the US who are just as capable as anyone in ISIS of doing horrible things and we sort of write them off as loners or mentally ill instead of calling them what they are-- terrorists, and instead we pretend that the bigger threat is external when it isn't. I get what you're saying, but the one difference between the Islamic Terrorists is that they are rational people who are religious warriors (jihadis) on a mission from God to kill all infidels. Sure, you can say religion is a mental illness but they truly believe this garbage. Murder has been a part of the Christian Church for a long long time. Crusades, inquisition, all other types of holy wars and excuses to kill. The hypocrisy is rich on the part of american christians. at some point, in every religion, men (and women) have found an excuse to use it to hurt people. the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can figure out a way to stop the crazies with the help of the muslims who don't want to kill everyone (most of them) lol, Murder has never been a part of the Christianity. Just because somebody says they kill for christianity doesn't make it "part of the church". Sure, there were atrocities, but we're talking about a war that was conducted hundreds of years ago. Find me any war that atrocities weren't committed. Christianity in no way shape or form condones violence of any kind,
Anybody who tries to go into the old testament to take things out of context does not understand Christianity. It's a standard liberal tactic to try and make Christianity into something that it is not. sell you BS somewhere else. Your religion is just as violent go read the old testament, you can hardly get through a page of the old testament without god telling the Israelites to kill someone. new testament examples: Luke 19:27: Luke reference is part of a parable (The Ten Minas) and generally accepted as a reference to the destruction Jerusalem., and the Matthew reference is saying that with the coming of Christ there is the inevitable battle of good and evil. The sword represents conflict in the world. Never have these references been used as a call to arms or to imply Christ was violent or interpreted by scholars in that way. . Edited by NXS 2015-12-08 7:00 AM |
| 2015-12-08 7:50 AM in reply to: NXS |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by dmiller5 Luke reference is part of a parable (The Ten Minas) and generally accepted as a reference to the destruction Jerusalem., and the Matthew reference is saying that with the coming of Christ there is the inevitable battle of good and evil. The sword represents conflict in the world. Never have these references been used as a call to arms or to imply Christ was violent or interpreted by scholars in that way. . Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Jim I will say it again, you cannot kill in the name of the Christian religion period. If someone in the past did, it was just as false teaching as it is today. There is no way the teachings of Christ can be interpreted that way. Christ was the "suffering servant" to his death. Not once did he teach hate, violence, or murder. On the other hand, there are teachings of Mohammad in the Quran that can be and are interpreted as a call to violence and murder. A very big difference. I have never said all Muslims are violent, they aren't. However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings. Originally posted by tuwood Riiiight, but you're a religious scholar who's' deeply familiar with the intricacies of the Koran, and you understand everything about it, so you'd never make some sweeping statement about an entire religion based on stuff you learned on infowars. It's a standard conservative tactic to try to paint anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian out to be a barbarian. Here's what Christianity is: it's an ancient religion with principles written down centuries ago by and interpreted and reinterpreted thousands of times by millions of people over the millennia. As such, it's been interpreted a number of ways and some of those ways involve violence, atrocities, etc. That doesn't mean the entire religion is a violent religion. To suggest that there is only one way to interpret any religion, including Christianity is absurd. You can't even agree on one calendar. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Yeah, about that... http://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQOriginally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Murder isn't a tenant of the Christian faith. We are not instructed to kill non believers or to purge an area of people of different faiths. So yes, the guy may be a loner in the sense that he is not following what Christ actually taught. Last time I checked, there wasn't a movement in the Christian church to kill people at abortion clinics. Originally posted by tuwood Let me make sure I follow... So, a Muslim who kills someone because he thinks G-d wants him to is a jihadi terrorist, but, for example, a Christian guy who murders people at a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor on behalf of his G-d whom he believes opposes abortion is...what? Mentally ill? A loner? "Irrational"? Something other than a terrorist? They're BOTH terrorists. That one happens to celebrate the same holidays as you does not exempt him from being so. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn [ I actually agree with you 100%. The part I struggle with is that piece about "I think most of us can agree that anyone who is willing to take another human life with a gun or any other means is mentally ill to some extent". It's a pretty common meme in the liberal progressive media space that when a black criminal shoots someone, according to the mainstream press, he's a thug and an indictment of his entire culture, and when a person of middle eastern descent kills people, they're terrorists and represent an indictment of their culture, but when the shooter is a white guy, he's either "mentally ill" or a "loner". Nobody's calling the kid who killed those people in South Carolina or the one the other day in Colorado a terrorist, but you can bet that the couple from Berdoo will be considered radical muslims and so on... I guess my point is that we have to start being realistic about where the problems are actually coming from if we want a meaningful reduction in gun violence in the US. People are losing their minds over Syrian refugees because there might be terrorists among them, but there are plenty of people in the US who are just as capable as anyone in ISIS of doing horrible things and we sort of write them off as loners or mentally ill instead of calling them what they are-- terrorists, and instead we pretend that the bigger threat is external when it isn't. I get what you're saying, but the one difference between the Islamic Terrorists is that they are rational people who are religious warriors (jihadis) on a mission from God to kill all infidels. Sure, you can say religion is a mental illness but they truly believe this garbage. Murder has been a part of the Christian Church for a long long time. Crusades, inquisition, all other types of holy wars and excuses to kill. The hypocrisy is rich on the part of american christians. at some point, in every religion, men (and women) have found an excuse to use it to hurt people. the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can figure out a way to stop the crazies with the help of the muslims who don't want to kill everyone (most of them) lol, Murder has never been a part of the Christianity. Just because somebody says they kill for christianity doesn't make it "part of the church". Sure, there were atrocities, but we're talking about a war that was conducted hundreds of years ago. Find me any war that atrocities weren't committed. Christianity in no way shape or form condones violence of any kind,
Anybody who tries to go into the old testament to take things out of context does not understand Christianity. It's a standard liberal tactic to try and make Christianity into something that it is not. sell you BS somewhere else. Your religion is just as violent go read the old testament, you can hardly get through a page of the old testament without god telling the Israelites to kill someone. new testament examples: Luke 19:27: but you see how someone could interpret it that way? I'm sure many muslims say something similar....the point is that this my religion is better then yours bullchit gets us nowhere, solves nothing, and makes you all seem like arses |
| 2015-12-08 9:33 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by dmiller5 Luke reference is part of a parable (The Ten Minas) and generally accepted as a reference to the destruction Jerusalem., and the Matthew reference is saying that with the coming of Christ there is the inevitable battle of good and evil. The sword represents conflict in the world. Never have these references been used as a call to arms or to imply Christ was violent or interpreted by scholars in that way. . Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Jim I will say it again, you cannot kill in the name of the Christian religion period. If someone in the past did, it was just as false teaching as it is today. There is no way the teachings of Christ can be interpreted that way. Christ was the "suffering servant" to his death. Not once did he teach hate, violence, or murder. On the other hand, there are teachings of Mohammad in the Quran that can be and are interpreted as a call to violence and murder. A very big difference. I have never said all Muslims are violent, they aren't. However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings. Originally posted by tuwood Riiiight, but you're a religious scholar who's' deeply familiar with the intricacies of the Koran, and you understand everything about it, so you'd never make some sweeping statement about an entire religion based on stuff you learned on infowars. It's a standard conservative tactic to try to paint anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian out to be a barbarian. Here's what Christianity is: it's an ancient religion with principles written down centuries ago by and interpreted and reinterpreted thousands of times by millions of people over the millennia. As such, it's been interpreted a number of ways and some of those ways involve violence, atrocities, etc. That doesn't mean the entire religion is a violent religion. To suggest that there is only one way to interpret any religion, including Christianity is absurd. You can't even agree on one calendar. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Yeah, about that... http://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQOriginally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Murder isn't a tenant of the Christian faith. We are not instructed to kill non believers or to purge an area of people of different faiths. So yes, the guy may be a loner in the sense that he is not following what Christ actually taught. Last time I checked, there wasn't a movement in the Christian church to kill people at abortion clinics. Originally posted by tuwood Let me make sure I follow... So, a Muslim who kills someone because he thinks G-d wants him to is a jihadi terrorist, but, for example, a Christian guy who murders people at a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor on behalf of his G-d whom he believes opposes abortion is...what? Mentally ill? A loner? "Irrational"? Something other than a terrorist? They're BOTH terrorists. That one happens to celebrate the same holidays as you does not exempt him from being so. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn [ I actually agree with you 100%. The part I struggle with is that piece about "I think most of us can agree that anyone who is willing to take another human life with a gun or any other means is mentally ill to some extent". It's a pretty common meme in the liberal progressive media space that when a black criminal shoots someone, according to the mainstream press, he's a thug and an indictment of his entire culture, and when a person of middle eastern descent kills people, they're terrorists and represent an indictment of their culture, but when the shooter is a white guy, he's either "mentally ill" or a "loner". Nobody's calling the kid who killed those people in South Carolina or the one the other day in Colorado a terrorist, but you can bet that the couple from Berdoo will be considered radical muslims and so on... I guess my point is that we have to start being realistic about where the problems are actually coming from if we want a meaningful reduction in gun violence in the US. People are losing their minds over Syrian refugees because there might be terrorists among them, but there are plenty of people in the US who are just as capable as anyone in ISIS of doing horrible things and we sort of write them off as loners or mentally ill instead of calling them what they are-- terrorists, and instead we pretend that the bigger threat is external when it isn't. I get what you're saying, but the one difference between the Islamic Terrorists is that they are rational people who are religious warriors (jihadis) on a mission from God to kill all infidels. Sure, you can say religion is a mental illness but they truly believe this garbage. Murder has been a part of the Christian Church for a long long time. Crusades, inquisition, all other types of holy wars and excuses to kill. The hypocrisy is rich on the part of american christians. at some point, in every religion, men (and women) have found an excuse to use it to hurt people. the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can figure out a way to stop the crazies with the help of the muslims who don't want to kill everyone (most of them) lol, Murder has never been a part of the Christianity. Just because somebody says they kill for christianity doesn't make it "part of the church". Sure, there were atrocities, but we're talking about a war that was conducted hundreds of years ago. Find me any war that atrocities weren't committed. Christianity in no way shape or form condones violence of any kind,
Anybody who tries to go into the old testament to take things out of context does not understand Christianity. It's a standard liberal tactic to try and make Christianity into something that it is not. sell you BS somewhere else. Your religion is just as violent go read the old testament, you can hardly get through a page of the old testament without god telling the Israelites to kill someone. new testament examples: Luke 19:27: but you see how someone could interpret it that way? I'm sure many muslims say something similar....the point is that this my religion is better then yours bullchit gets us nowhere, solves nothing, and makes you all seem like arses You make it sound like somebody just picked up the book and read it. Then thought.. you know, it says go kill people so i will now. I am not aware of ANYONE who is teaching this in any way other than what it was intended inside the parable and there's certainly not a problem of Christians going out killing people and using this scripture for justification. As for Islam, it IS in the book and there are thousands of mosks all over the world (including in the US) who ARE teaching jihad in the name of Allah. You can pretend it's not happening, but to try and put the two in the same category is just ridiculous. I hope it's ok to use an Atheist source, but according to the Pew study conducted a couple years back they estimate that more than 350 Million muslims worldwide support Jihad. (killing of non believers) http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/ In contrast I challenge you to find Christians who thinks it's permissible to kill in the name of Jesus.
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| 2015-12-08 10:00 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by dmiller5 Luke reference is part of a parable (The Ten Minas) and generally accepted as a reference to the destruction Jerusalem., and the Matthew reference is saying that with the coming of Christ there is the inevitable battle of good and evil. The sword represents conflict in the world. Never have these references been used as a call to arms or to imply Christ was violent or interpreted by scholars in that way. . Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Jim I will say it again, you cannot kill in the name of the Christian religion period. If someone in the past did, it was just as false teaching as it is today. There is no way the teachings of Christ can be interpreted that way. Christ was the "suffering servant" to his death. Not once did he teach hate, violence, or murder. On the other hand, there are teachings of Mohammad in the Quran that can be and are interpreted as a call to violence and murder. A very big difference. I have never said all Muslims are violent, they aren't. However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings. Originally posted by tuwood Riiiight, but you're a religious scholar who's' deeply familiar with the intricacies of the Koran, and you understand everything about it, so you'd never make some sweeping statement about an entire religion based on stuff you learned on infowars. It's a standard conservative tactic to try to paint anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian out to be a barbarian. Here's what Christianity is: it's an ancient religion with principles written down centuries ago by and interpreted and reinterpreted thousands of times by millions of people over the millennia. As such, it's been interpreted a number of ways and some of those ways involve violence, atrocities, etc. That doesn't mean the entire religion is a violent religion. To suggest that there is only one way to interpret any religion, including Christianity is absurd. You can't even agree on one calendar. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Yeah, about that... http://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQOriginally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Murder isn't a tenant of the Christian faith. We are not instructed to kill non believers or to purge an area of people of different faiths. So yes, the guy may be a loner in the sense that he is not following what Christ actually taught. Last time I checked, there wasn't a movement in the Christian church to kill people at abortion clinics. Originally posted by tuwood Let me make sure I follow... So, a Muslim who kills someone because he thinks G-d wants him to is a jihadi terrorist, but, for example, a Christian guy who murders people at a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor on behalf of his G-d whom he believes opposes abortion is...what? Mentally ill? A loner? "Irrational"? Something other than a terrorist? They're BOTH terrorists. That one happens to celebrate the same holidays as you does not exempt him from being so. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn [ I actually agree with you 100%. The part I struggle with is that piece about "I think most of us can agree that anyone who is willing to take another human life with a gun or any other means is mentally ill to some extent". It's a pretty common meme in the liberal progressive media space that when a black criminal shoots someone, according to the mainstream press, he's a thug and an indictment of his entire culture, and when a person of middle eastern descent kills people, they're terrorists and represent an indictment of their culture, but when the shooter is a white guy, he's either "mentally ill" or a "loner". Nobody's calling the kid who killed those people in South Carolina or the one the other day in Colorado a terrorist, but you can bet that the couple from Berdoo will be considered radical muslims and so on... I guess my point is that we have to start being realistic about where the problems are actually coming from if we want a meaningful reduction in gun violence in the US. People are losing their minds over Syrian refugees because there might be terrorists among them, but there are plenty of people in the US who are just as capable as anyone in ISIS of doing horrible things and we sort of write them off as loners or mentally ill instead of calling them what they are-- terrorists, and instead we pretend that the bigger threat is external when it isn't. I get what you're saying, but the one difference between the Islamic Terrorists is that they are rational people who are religious warriors (jihadis) on a mission from God to kill all infidels. Sure, you can say religion is a mental illness but they truly believe this garbage. Murder has been a part of the Christian Church for a long long time. Crusades, inquisition, all other types of holy wars and excuses to kill. The hypocrisy is rich on the part of american christians. at some point, in every religion, men (and women) have found an excuse to use it to hurt people. the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can figure out a way to stop the crazies with the help of the muslims who don't want to kill everyone (most of them) lol, Murder has never been a part of the Christianity. Just because somebody says they kill for christianity doesn't make it "part of the church". Sure, there were atrocities, but we're talking about a war that was conducted hundreds of years ago. Find me any war that atrocities weren't committed. Christianity in no way shape or form condones violence of any kind,
Anybody who tries to go into the old testament to take things out of context does not understand Christianity. It's a standard liberal tactic to try and make Christianity into something that it is not. sell you BS somewhere else. Your religion is just as violent go read the old testament, you can hardly get through a page of the old testament without god telling the Israelites to kill someone. new testament examples: Luke 19:27: but you see how someone could interpret it that way? I'm sure many muslims say something similar....the point is that this my religion is better then yours bullchit gets us nowhere, solves nothing, and makes you all seem like arses You make it sound like somebody just picked up the book and read it. Then thought.. you know, it says go kill people so i will now. I am not aware of ANYONE who is teaching this in any way other than what it was intended inside the parable and there's certainly not a problem of Christians going out killing people and using this scripture for justification. As for Islam, it IS in the book and there are thousands of mosks all over the world (including in the US) who ARE teaching jihad in the name of Allah. You can pretend it's not happening, but to try and put the two in the same category is just ridiculous. I hope it's ok to use an Atheist source, but according to the Pew study conducted a couple years back they estimate that more than 350 Million muslims worldwide support Jihad. (killing of non believers) http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/ In contrast I challenge you to find Christians who thinks it's permissible to kill in the name of Jesus.
I can easily find Christians all over Africa who think its ok to kill homosexuals in the name of their religion. and just because at this instant Christianity is not in a violent phase, does not excuse the past. |
| 2015-12-08 10:06 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by dmiller5 Luke reference is part of a parable (The Ten Minas) and generally accepted as a reference to the destruction Jerusalem., and the Matthew reference is saying that with the coming of Christ there is the inevitable battle of good and evil. The sword represents conflict in the world. Never have these references been used as a call to arms or to imply Christ was violent or interpreted by scholars in that way. . Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Jim I will say it again, you cannot kill in the name of the Christian religion period. If someone in the past did, it was just as false teaching as it is today. There is no way the teachings of Christ can be interpreted that way. Christ was the "suffering servant" to his death. Not once did he teach hate, violence, or murder. On the other hand, there are teachings of Mohammad in the Quran that can be and are interpreted as a call to violence and murder. A very big difference. I have never said all Muslims are violent, they aren't. However Islam has a big problem within itself that seems to be tolerated as little is said condemning terrorist acts or to correct improper teachings. Originally posted by tuwood Riiiight, but you're a religious scholar who's' deeply familiar with the intricacies of the Koran, and you understand everything about it, so you'd never make some sweeping statement about an entire religion based on stuff you learned on infowars. It's a standard conservative tactic to try to paint anyone who isn't a fundamentalist Christian out to be a barbarian. Here's what Christianity is: it's an ancient religion with principles written down centuries ago by and interpreted and reinterpreted thousands of times by millions of people over the millennia. As such, it's been interpreted a number of ways and some of those ways involve violence, atrocities, etc. That doesn't mean the entire religion is a violent religion. To suggest that there is only one way to interpret any religion, including Christianity is absurd. You can't even agree on one calendar. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by tuwood Yeah, about that... http://youtu.be/zEnWw_lH4tQOriginally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by NXS Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Murder isn't a tenant of the Christian faith. We are not instructed to kill non believers or to purge an area of people of different faiths. So yes, the guy may be a loner in the sense that he is not following what Christ actually taught. Last time I checked, there wasn't a movement in the Christian church to kill people at abortion clinics. Originally posted by tuwood Let me make sure I follow... So, a Muslim who kills someone because he thinks G-d wants him to is a jihadi terrorist, but, for example, a Christian guy who murders people at a Planned Parenthood or kills a doctor on behalf of his G-d whom he believes opposes abortion is...what? Mentally ill? A loner? "Irrational"? Something other than a terrorist? They're BOTH terrorists. That one happens to celebrate the same holidays as you does not exempt him from being so. Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn [ I actually agree with you 100%. The part I struggle with is that piece about "I think most of us can agree that anyone who is willing to take another human life with a gun or any other means is mentally ill to some extent". It's a pretty common meme in the liberal progressive media space that when a black criminal shoots someone, according to the mainstream press, he's a thug and an indictment of his entire culture, and when a person of middle eastern descent kills people, they're terrorists and represent an indictment of their culture, but when the shooter is a white guy, he's either "mentally ill" or a "loner". Nobody's calling the kid who killed those people in South Carolina or the one the other day in Colorado a terrorist, but you can bet that the couple from Berdoo will be considered radical muslims and so on... I guess my point is that we have to start being realistic about where the problems are actually coming from if we want a meaningful reduction in gun violence in the US. People are losing their minds over Syrian refugees because there might be terrorists among them, but there are plenty of people in the US who are just as capable as anyone in ISIS of doing horrible things and we sort of write them off as loners or mentally ill instead of calling them what they are-- terrorists, and instead we pretend that the bigger threat is external when it isn't. I get what you're saying, but the one difference between the Islamic Terrorists is that they are rational people who are religious warriors (jihadis) on a mission from God to kill all infidels. Sure, you can say religion is a mental illness but they truly believe this garbage. Murder has been a part of the Christian Church for a long long time. Crusades, inquisition, all other types of holy wars and excuses to kill. The hypocrisy is rich on the part of american christians. at some point, in every religion, men (and women) have found an excuse to use it to hurt people. the sooner you admit that, the sooner we can figure out a way to stop the crazies with the help of the muslims who don't want to kill everyone (most of them) lol, Murder has never been a part of the Christianity. Just because somebody says they kill for christianity doesn't make it "part of the church". Sure, there were atrocities, but we're talking about a war that was conducted hundreds of years ago. Find me any war that atrocities weren't committed. Christianity in no way shape or form condones violence of any kind,
Anybody who tries to go into the old testament to take things out of context does not understand Christianity. It's a standard liberal tactic to try and make Christianity into something that it is not. sell you BS somewhere else. Your religion is just as violent go read the old testament, you can hardly get through a page of the old testament without god telling the Israelites to kill someone. new testament examples: Luke 19:27: but you see how someone could interpret it that way? I'm sure many muslims say something similar....the point is that this my religion is better then yours bullchit gets us nowhere, solves nothing, and makes you all seem like arses You make it sound like somebody just picked up the book and read it. Then thought.. you know, it says go kill people so i will now. I am not aware of ANYONE who is teaching this in any way other than what it was intended inside the parable and there's certainly not a problem of Christians going out killing people and using this scripture for justification. As for Islam, it IS in the book and there are thousands of mosks all over the world (including in the US) who ARE teaching jihad in the name of Allah. You can pretend it's not happening, but to try and put the two in the same category is just ridiculous. I hope it's ok to use an Atheist source, but according to the Pew study conducted a couple years back they estimate that more than 350 Million muslims worldwide support Jihad. (killing of non believers) http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/ In contrast I challenge you to find Christians who thinks it's permissible to kill in the name of Jesus.
I can easily find Christians all over Africa who think its ok to kill homosexuals in the name of their religion. and just because at this instant Christianity is not in a violent phase, does not excuse the past. So in your mind Christianity is just as bad as Islam so therefore we must not in any way do anything against Muslims (radical or otherwise)? Just trying to understand your argument. |
| 2015-12-08 1:15 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 1019 St. Louis | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by tuwood You make it sound like somebody just picked up the book and read it. Then thought.. you know, it says go kill people so i will now. I am not aware of ANYONE who is teaching this in any way other than what it was intended inside the parable and there's certainly not a problem of Christians going out killing people and using this scripture for justification. As for Islam, it IS in the book and there are thousands of mosks all over the world (including in the US) who ARE teaching jihad in the name of Allah. You can pretend it's not happening, but to try and put the two in the same category is just ridiculous. I hope it's ok to use an Atheist source, but according to the Pew study conducted a couple years back they estimate that more than 350 Million muslims worldwide support Jihad. (killing of non believers) http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/ In contrast I challenge you to find Christians who thinks it's permissible to kill in the name of Jesus.
Joseph Kony and his Lord's Resistance Army have been doing it for decades. He claims to be fighting for the 10 Commandments, he preaches to his followers passages from the Bible, and he believes the Cross protects him. Of course, any rationale person would look at Kony and say he's a radical nutjub who's cherry-picked Bible passages and twisted the teachings of Christianity to brainwash his Army in to thinking they're doing the Lord's work. So why is it so hard to assume the same thing for all the radical Imams in the world? I never have (and never will) read the Quran, so I have no idea what it really says. But it always seemed odd that we hear so often in this country that it's a book of violence when so many Muslims swear it's a book of peace. Then I came across an old 20/20 piece (link). If you don't want to read the whole thing, it says that the references to fighting infidels is specific only to the time frame that Muhammed lived in. The Quran uses the word infidels to "describe explicitly and exclusively the Meccan aristocracy with which the Muslim community was at war with". Maybe that's true, maybe it's complete crap, but that makes sense to me. Muslims strike me as a pretty devout group on average, and there's a billion of them that are not out trying to kill every non-Muslim they meet. It's a lot easier for me to believe that Americans have been misinformed about the teachings of the Quran than it is for me to believe that a billion devout Muslims are choosing every day to ignore a fundamental tenent of their faith. It's like the Leviticus laws. God gave them to a specific group of people during a specific period of time. As you've pointed out many times before, Jesus's came along and nullified those ridiculous laws, but how many Americans understand that? Certainly not the people who like to tell Christians they're making God angry whenever they wear polyester clothing or get tattoes. But also not the Christians who call homosexuality an abomination, since that's only ever mentioned in Leviticus. People hear the passages they want to hear and ignore the overall teachings of the book. As for the poll that 350 million Muslims support Jihad, that is absolutely not what it says. The question was "% of Muslims who say suicide bombing is never justified". Whenever a poll only gives you two choices, never or not never (or always and not always), you can throw the results out the window. They mean chit. How do you feel about murder? Obviously you oppose it. Would you agree that killing someone is never acceptable? Of course not. Because if you get attacked, you have an unalienable right to defend yourself, even if it means killing your attacker. ETA: Holy crap I have no idea why that came out bolded, blue, and in all-caps. Sorry. I swear that's not how I typed it. Edited by Bob Loblaw 2015-12-08 1:17 PM |
| 2015-12-08 7:09 PM in reply to: Bob Loblaw |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? STOP YELLING |
| 2015-12-09 8:02 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by dmiller5 STOP YELLING WHY DID THE GUN THREAD BECOME ALL ABOUT RELIGION? Oops, sorry, I had my earplugs in. I just unloaded a high capacity drum (50 rounds) magazine into the backyard. Neighbor's kitty was dumping in the wifey's flowerbed again. Missed the cat, but aerated the snot out of the flowerbed and half the backyard. |
| 2015-12-09 8:13 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Champion 7821 Brooklyn, NY | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by dmiller5 STOP YELLING WHY DID THE GUN THREAD BECOME ALL ABOUT RELIGION? Oops, sorry, I had my earplugs in. I just unloaded a high capacity drum (50 rounds) magazine into the backyard. Neighbor's kitty was dumping in the wifey's flowerbed again. Missed the cat, but aerated the snot out of the flowerbed and half the backyard. I'm not sure how that happened. It was probably my bad. Glad you missed the cat. I'd like to tell you the cat's probably learned it's lesson, but if it's anything like our cat, you'll probably get another crack at it. |
| 2015-12-09 8:32 AM in reply to: jmk-brooklyn |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Originally posted by mdg2003 Originally posted by dmiller5 STOP YELLING WHY DID THE GUN THREAD BECOME ALL ABOUT RELIGION? Oops, sorry, I had my earplugs in. I just unloaded a high capacity drum (50 rounds) magazine into the backyard. Neighbor's kitty was dumping in the wifey's flowerbed again. Missed the cat, but aerated the snot out of the flowerbed and half the backyard. I'm not sure how that happened. It was probably my bad. Glad you missed the cat. I'd like to tell you the cat's probably learned it's lesson, but if it's anything like our cat, you'll probably get another crack at it. I'm dragging the 40mm Bofors out of the shed after I finish my coffee. Three rounds, four tops and kitty will be fertilizer. Bonus is everyone's yard gets aerated. Someone will invariably btich about holes in their fence or hot tub getting drained. But I can cope with upsetting my neighbors, better them mad at me than the wifey mad at me. |
| 2015-12-09 9:13 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? |
| 2015-12-09 9:36 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 6838 Tejas | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? So according to LB there are 400 million guns out there. Who has the other 200 million guns?  |
| 2015-12-09 10:10 AM in reply to: mdg2003 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by mdg2003 So according to LB there are 400 million guns out there. Who has the other 200 million guns? Probably an outdated recycled graphic from three months ago. Here's a graph I just found with data up to 2013. So I suspect we're well in excess of 400 Million on the impossible to verify guesstimates. Since the gun salesmen in chief went all gun grabber mode in late 2012/2013, I'm sure the graph went up considerably higher the past few years.
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| 2015-12-09 10:13 AM in reply to: tuwood |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Gun Advocates, What Say You?? Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by mdg2003 So according to LB there are 400 million guns out there. Who has the other 200 million guns? Probably an outdated recycled graphic from three months ago. Here's a graph I just found with data up to 2013. So I suspect we're well in excess of 400 Million on the impossible to verify guesstimates. Since the gun salesmen in chief went all gun grabber mode in late 2012/2013, I'm sure the graph went up considerably higher the past few years.
I was told yesterday that Monday......the day after President Obama gave his address on how safe he's made us.....was the single biggest day this year for background checks/gun sales. Go figure. |
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