Cav's Group - Closed (Page 13)

5k at last. It is big after your injuries. Great motivation I should think, and it already shows with signing up to a race   (of course, the pub adds some more motivation )

If I did a race that started at a pub I may struggle to start the actual race . Seriously though, congrats on the run and the decent time.

Thanks for the positive comments on the 5k!  I am, more and more, leaning towards an Olympic Distance triathlon in August (instead of a 3rd sprint).  I have been able to increase my running distance without any serious running training to 5k and have a 6k race in a month and a 7 mile race in May.  I need to pick up my swimming pace and distance as well.  I went swimming again last night and just kept trying to focus on the over the barrel technique, kicking from the hip, rotate the body and head looking slightly forward.  I'd have flashes where it seemed like I did them all at once and felt like I was going fast, but that would only last for a couple strokes.  As Dory from Finding Nemo said, "Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming...".

As for the virtual 5k, here's our list:
Rowdypaint (Pattie)
RogerWilco (Burak)
Sicone (Stav)
Wax_On (Chris)
me (ferretracer-Erik)
TTucker (Tammy)

Did I miss anyone?  Any one have races in March?  I have a 6k on March 21st (if that weekend seems good for it, I will check my 5k time).

Let me know!!

Edited by ferretracer 2010-02-22 7:44 PM

At March 7 there is a running race and my wife wants to run her first running race ever (intending a 10K). If she decides to run it I will also do the race. I thought I would run a 10K to gauge my progress but since I did not do any speed-work, and certainly not much running volume I do not think I have gained any speed. As a second point, some answers to a thread I opened in Triathlon Talk told me that to know my LT better, I would have to run a 15K or half-mary. Since there is no 15K at the race, but a half-mary I may do it just know my LTHR. But I am not sure yet.

The decision will be made within this week, and I will let you know about it.

Race wise I have nothing until April 18th (sprint distance tri), but I can just plot out a 5k route and run it whenever we decide to do the race.

Anyone else on dates for our virtual 5k?  Shall I just pick one?

When I was first married/started a new career (last decade) I didn't have much time to ride (and eventually gave it up in favor of becoming a fat lazy couch potato that I have since baked, mashed and thrown away) I found some 1 hour bike work outs that I loved (and just found again while cleaning the basement a bit).  They are speed/ interval based and road race based, but still nice hard speed building work-outs.  They are based on days of the week, but don't need to be done that way.  There used to be 5 anyway!  I have them laminated and used to keep them in my pocket while riding:
Tuesday                                        
1. Warm up 5 minutes easy spinning
2. repeat this interval set 3 times:
  effort 1: 1 minute easy
  effort 2: 1 min medium
  effort 3: 1 min hard
3. rest with 2-3 min easy spinning
4. Repeat this interval workout 5 times:
  3 min steady pace (60-70% of all out effort)
  30 seconds recovery
5. rest with 2-3 min easy spinning
6. Repeat this interval 2 times (30 sec recovery between efforts)
  effort 1: 2 minutes easy
  effort 2: 2 min medium
  effort 3: 2 min hard
7.  Rest with 2-3 min easy spinning
8. Repeat this interval 12 times (yes, 12)
  20 seconds at cruising speed and accelerate to top speed for last 5 seconds
  10 second recovery
9. Cool down with 5 min easy spinning

That's Tuesday

Wednesday:
1.  Warm up is next 3 efforts:
2.  Do this interval workout:
  effort 1: 1 min easy
  effort 2: 1 min medium
  effort 3: 1 min hard
    Then repeat with 2 minute efforts
    Repeat a 3rd time with 1 min efforts
3. Rest with 2-3 mins easy spinning
4. Do this interval work out 3 times (30 sec recovery between efforts)
  effort 1: 3 mins, increasing speed every 30 seconds
  effort 2: 1 min easy
  effort 3: 1 min medium
  effort 4: 1 min hard
5. rest 2-3 min easy spinning
6. Repeat this interval work out 3 times (30 sec recovery between efforts)
  effort 1: 90 sec in creasing speed each 15 seconds
  effort 2: 30 sec easy
  effort 3: 30 sec medium
  effort 4: 30 sec hard
7.  Cool down with 510 minutes easy spinning

Thursday (or any day)
1.  Warm up with 5 mins easy spinning
2. Interval work out with 30 secs rest between efforts:
   effort 1: 4 min on
   effort 2: 3 min on
   effort 3: 2 min on
   effort 4: 1 min on
   effort 5: 30 sec on
As you descend in time, increase your pace (3 min is faster than 4, 2 faster than 3, etc...)
3. Rest 2-3 min easy spin
4. Next interval work out (15 sec recovery between efforts)
   effort 1: 1 min easy
   effort 2: 1 min medium
   effort 3: 1 min hard
Repeat 1-3 then...
   effort 4: 1 min steady pace (repeat 5 times for 6 total efforts)
   effort 5: 1 min steady pace, increasing effort every 15 seconds (repeat 5 times for 6 total efforts)
5. Rest 2-3 mins easy spinning
6. Interval work out:
   effort 1: 25 seconds steady pace (5 secs recovery)
   effort 2: 20 secs steady pace, accelerating the last 5 seconds (10 sec recovery)
 Repeat 8 times for 9 total
7.  Cool down 5-10 mins easy spinning

The effort levels are obviously dependent on where you are at with your cycling.  Enjoy the pain!

Erik

Erik, thanks for sharing your bike workouts. In the "Challenge Me" section there is Jorge's Winter Cycling Plan. The workouts in that plan are also in the vicinity of 1 hour and it calls for 3 days/week (plus if possible one long ride) . I did not do it since I do not have a trainer but there are very positive feedbacks about that plan. You might want to check it out.

Edited by RogerWilco 2010-02-25 1:07 AM

I don't have an indoor trainer for my bike anymore.  That was something I sold a couple years ago for lens money when I didn't think I'd get back into riding again.

Feeling very grrrrrr right now.  My hammy/sciatic had been feeling great-until tonight.  I had to stop playing basketball because the pain came back fast and sharp.  Resting it right now with an Icy Hot patch and a couple motrin.  Hopefully it'll subside.

On the plus side, I signed up for the Disney Half Marathon last night for January 8th, 2011.

Edited by ferretracer 2010-02-24 5:25 PM

WoooHooo. I did my first bike ride to work this season. Thursday mornings my pool is closed for cleaning and the weather is warmer, though it keeps on raining and the roads are nearly always wet. So I decided to increase my weekly bike rides to 2, one being Thursday morning and the other on Sunday. This morning's ride was 1:43 long and oh boy, it felt so good. For me, no sports compares with road biking (well, at least no single-sport ). The wind on my face and the speed, the smoothness... That being said, I did not try to speed up. Just did a slow-easy ride with some tempo pick-ups whenever I felt like it.

On the down side, the roads were wet and my bike is all muddy and dirty again. I have cleaned it yesterday evening, and now I have to clean it again before sunday's ride. I really like bike mechanics but cleaning , ugh.

I used to hate cleaning my bike, too.  But, now, I consider it more of a Zen thing- peaceful, get to know my bike.  After a grubby ride, I'll take it apart, clean, relube if needed and put it back together.

I have a bike portion of a tri question:

Do you wear bike gloves for the cycling portion?

Out of just feeling more secure when I crash, I probably will but it was something I was thinking about after my first tri but then forgot to ask here!

For races, I never worry about gloves.  I have a tri bike, so I'm not leaning on my hands, so no real need for gloves.  Yea, if I crashed, it would suck.  I always train with gloves, but never race with them.  Same with socks.  Never socks on the bike for races. 

I was definitely going to switch to no socks!  I think I will for gloves, too.

Hi guys!  Sorry I've been kind of absent lately.  Training and work have gotten kind of tough the last couple weeks.  My in-laws are here for a visit for about a week and that's taken a bit of my time too.  I was doing OK keeping up with my training plan until yesterday.  We went snowtubing at a local hill.  It has 3 runs and a tow rope to take you back to the top.  Innertubes get you from the top to the bottom.  Well, it's all fun until someone gets hurt, and yesterday it was me.  I came up the tow rope and hit my head on the ground.  I heard a crunch and immediately wondered wtf I was doing without a helmet.  I sat on the ground for a while wondering how bad it realy was.  I decided to HTFU and try it again.  The very next run I managed to sprain my ankle.  So, here I sit with the remnants of a headache and a jacked-up ankle.  Lovely.  At least next week is a rest week.  Hope things are better for you guys!

Did my run and bike threshold tests (a la Friel's bible). Very cool to have numbers to shoot for and plan around.  I'm updating my training logs even if I'm not doing too much here. I should start soon, the training is starting in earnest (though had a stomach bug the past four days so today was the first day to work out in a while, luckily just before it kicked in I was able to do my run threshold test!).

Erik, I did only one triathlon so far, an oly, and there was no one with gloves, 2 or 3 people with socks. I was one of the "socks" guys. It is only 40K on the bike, so there really is no need for the gloves (except for the crash probability of course). I raced with near to no training that time and my goal was just to finish, so I opted for the socks. I have never gone sockless on the bike or run before that so I figured since my goal was just finishing I would sit down and put on my socks, "1 minute be damned" . This time I will train for it and go sockless.

Eric, I did the LT tests for the bike and run too. The run test gave some meaningful data, but it is still somewhat controversial I think. I opened up a thread in "Triathlon Talk" and there was some dispute about the LT test. Some people suggests using the pace, not HR for the run. McMillan or Daniel's paces are suggested. And also some of the HR believers say that 30 minutes is too short, it must be around 1 hour. I personally think that it gives a good starting point, and it is not too far off the real number.

Bike LT test is another matter. According to my test, my biking LTHR is 145!!! I know that I can bike with an HR of 175 for one hour during the season. I think, it is due to weather and road conditions. I really do not train with HR for the bike. I just ride a lot, and hit the hills whenever I see them. It has always been enough for me.

Edited by RogerWilco 2010-03-02 2:33 AM

I'm trying to get out to the pool twice a week now.  I still struggle with my breathing.  I usually do 100's (because I can complete them...) but have done a 500 (yards) and a couple 200 yard swims as well.  I sometimes start to get winded while swimming towards the end of the 100's and I think it's breathing related (not aerobically related).  I try to breathe every 3 strokes and end end up finishing breathing out and then breathing in both for two strokes and then repeating.  I've tried 4 strokes and tried breathing out harder, to get everything out so I am only breathing in but I have trouble doing that.  So (if that sounded confusing) I:  Swim 3 strokes while breathing out in the water, 2 strokes total of finishing breathing out and then breathing in and repeat.

Any breathing advice?

I have noticed that my 100 yard times have been dropping.  When I do laps, I don't push off the wall hard at all.  If I do, it's just to kind of keep the momentum going to help build up endurance.  I definitely want to do some OWS.  I know of a group from here that said they did them together last year while one of the guys would kayak as a safety boater so I am going to join them when they start.

I don't have any advice on the LT's, sorry!

Swimming is so technique oriented. Your getting winded is certain to be of technical issues rather than your aerobic base. But it may not be due to your breathing alone, other aspects may affect it also. You tried to summarize your breathing strategy but I still cannot understand what you are doing, sorry!

Are you breathing out in the water for 3 strokes and when you tilt your head to breathe you still have to breathe out and then breathe in? Is that why you use 2 strokes for breathing in?

I will assume the situation is what I wrote. So you have to keep your head out of the water for 2 strokes, which is not good. Maybe you are breathing too deep. You should work with some drills I think. The classic TI drill may work for you: lay down on your side, one arm extended forward and kick. Keep your head down, meaning you have to look down, your head should be aligned with your extended arm. Breathe out constantly, whenever you need to breathe in reach forward with your other arm (which stayed put on your side until this moment) and you turn and lay down to other side, this time gluing your other arm to your side. While doing the turn tilt your head just enough to breathe in and tilt it back again to look down. Do all the drill slowly and I think you will get the hang of breathing.

If possible try to get yourself recorded and share it here (or Triathlon Talk, there are a lot of good swimmers there) for more advice. As I said, other aspects of swimming may be the cause of your breathing problems.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks for the advice Burak.  I know I didn't explain it too well (my breathing) the two strokes did include the last breath out and also in.  Either way, I need to cut it down to 1 stroke.  It may be that I am breathing deeply which I do naturally.  I know I don't do the slow deep breaths while running and riding because of pace, so I don't know why I try to force it when swimming.  When breathing out, should I feel that everything is out of my lungs?  Breathing out 3 strokes does feel better/ more natural than 4 strokes, so I think I need to retrain myself to breath in right away. 

I may swim with the board next time out to work on my kick as well.  I've read (here or elsewhere) that we should be kicking more from our hips than our knees and I think I need to work on that.  I have been working on improving my stroke as well and not forcing my arm through as soon as it hits the water and I have noticed an improvement there.  That arm stroke improvement has also helped me feel less winded.  I've been able to remind myself to keep my head forward a tad and not facing straight down to the bottom of the pool and to rotate as well with the strokes.  Small improvements, but the improvements are there.  I am going to be going to the pool twice a week to help work on all the things I need to work on!!

I ran/walked a bit over a mile tonight and only felt a bit of twinge in my hammy/sciatic on a slight up hill section.  Other than that, it felt fine! 

I hope everyone is feeling great and enjoying their workouts!!  Happy training!

Oh, one more thing.  I am doing a Tough Mudder run on May 2nd- it's a 7 mile, 17 obstacle run.  The TM is basically to help fundraise for the Wounded Warrior Project (they help severely disabled vets here in the US).  I've decided to help with the cause and am helping fundraise for them.  I know money is tight all around, still, but if you could spare a dollar or two that'd be awesome.  I am hoping to raise $150 by the week before the race (when they wanted the donations) and i have $75 already.  Here is a link if you can help: www.active.com/donate/toughmuddernypawwp/EAmmon

Erik, yes, you need to cut your breathing to 1 stroke. Ideally you should breathe out for 2 strokes into the water and in the 3rd stroke you should tilt your head just enough to breathe. That being said when you are pushing yourself or somewhat tired if you feel the need to breathe every 2 strokes by all means you should do so. You should not be deprived of oxygen. I usually start my sets breathing every 3rd stroke. After some 300-500 meters, I find myself breathing mostly every 2nd stroke. Mind you, I said mostly. When I breathe every 2 strokes, after some time I find that I have too much air in my lungs and I breathe at 3rd stroke and then every 2 strokes again.

So, this time my explanation is somewhat ambiguous I think, basically I breathe whenever I need, at most at the 3rd stroke. My breathing pattern looks like this 3-2-2-2-3-2-2-2-2-3... or something like that. So I am still breathing bilaterally and I have all the oxygen I need.

When breathing out, I feel everything, or very close to everything, is out of my lungs. But it is hard to describe. Maybe other people feel different.

Congrats on the improvements. I am learning the hard way there is no such thing as big leaps in swimming. All my improvements are in small increments.

By the way, I am doing the 10K run this Sunday with my wife. I will treat it as a tempo run on my weekly training. I am not expecting any good times, since I did no interval work, no serious hills and very little tempo training as of now. But I will be with my wife, who will be doing her first race and is thrilled at the moment

I am curious if there are other "mentorless" mentor groups out there. But hey, at least we are still a group, right?

I was wondering if there were any other groups like this as well, but we seem to do OK helping each other out!  Just looking at page numbers of other groups, there are some with less activity than ours, but also some with a lot more.  That's awesome about your wife's first race!  I have my wife doing her first race the first weekend in April- a 5k called the 'Fool's Run' and we're very excited about that!

Thanks for the reply helping with the breathing again!

Hey, good luck at the race.

I want to share my last night's run. I have a friend who is a mountaineer, and they have a group which runs every Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday. Sunday is their long run day, the others shorter. For some time now I have been looking to replace my long run from weekend or mornings to one weekday evening. So I decided to do the run with them. I started early and ran solo for about 45 minutes and then met with them and ran with them 45 minutes more for a total of 1:30:00. The good thing about their running system:

There are people with different running capacities, and doing different training programs. Everyone runs at his/her own tempo, at every junction faster one turn back and run till they pass the slowest one and turn back again at his/her tempo. This way, nobody is left behind. They said they are mountaineers and this is their philosophy "noone left behind". Some these guys/gals climbed Mt.Everest 2 years ago and this is why we were able to do it they said.

I really liked the system and look forward to run with them again.

GRRR. Frustrated, after my physio enforced rest started some gentle runs, with orthotics. Shin splints back almost as bad as before. Going to ice them for a day or so and try just a mile or so on Sunday.

In case you missed it, there was a bit of chattter about this a couple of weeks ago in this thread, with suggestions, links to videos, articles, drills to do, etc..

Frustrating!!! I hope you see improvements soon, keep at it!

Hi Eric, I did take a quick peak, but saw mostly stroke advice (I know I didn't look too thoroughly...my fault on that).  I will go through it another night to check out some past advice. 

I do have another swimming question...

I'm starting to fight a cold (runny nose) and have no problem running or biking (easy to power snot) but what about the pool...should I skip the pool tomorrow night if my nose is running bad?  It just seemed kinda gross to have it dripping in the pool.  I can get out for a run with a neighbor tomorrow night, so I will be able to replace the work-out.