kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED (Page 13)

Rudy - did you just serve Kelly? 

I think your run will be fine.  You were well rested for the Hfd Quarter and had a really good race.  I think as long as you get some additional volume (i.e. a few 2:30-3 hr) runs in between now and patriot, preferrably following a bike day, you'll be fine.  At this point, probably like me, your issue will be muscular endurance (what kelly call peripheral system failure).  My lungs are almost always fine, HR is good, its my legs that fail.  that is insuifficient volume and still being too heavy.  When I did a hilly 13 mile run the day after a hilly 25 mile bike I was definitely hurting.  this week I am looking to do a 35-45 mile hilly bike saturday and a 13-15 mile hilly run sunday.  ouchy poo.

nah, Kelly knows i admire and respect her immensely, And she may be totally spot on if i blow up fantastically in my half about 7 miles in the run, but realistically, i have done enough shorter races and am in good enough bike shape that i can go 110% on the bike and still lay down a 7:30-8:00m/mile run for at least 5-6 miles. Which takes care of all sprints and Oly's, and still is a decent pace for me, not fast for the field, but fast enough.

And she is 100% correct, that was not the case 2 years ago, so her comments are founded and documented, and i have no argument for them, but it will make for great conversation at the Beer BQ or your house in Sept.  It will be a great season regardless.

Swim videos from the TI workshop......please keep in mind that in the post-workshop videos the focus is on form and not speed   I feel like I look like a total dillhole in the post-workshop videos, but some of the stroke concepts felt strange to me.  Plus the coach was screaming at me from the side of the pool -  keep your head down, open up, etc. 

Initial video underwater:

http://youtu.be/qtZVKQKODRk

Inital video 2:

http://youtu.be/QrxKOt-ykSM

Post-workshop underwater:

http://youtu.be/AcqVl_4OTQA

Post-workshop video 2:

http://youtu.be/T3v4cKLqarY

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:05 PM I for one respect anyomne is willing to CRUSH the bike and still run well, good on 'ya Big Dog. Altrhough it is a bit trite, yes, triathlon is 3 sports which need to be executed at the best of our abilitites...blah, blah, blah. BUT, sometimes if you are VERY good at one, it often pays, especially in shorter races, to make hay when the sunshines. Case in point there is a local guy here named Cam Hill who is an amazing swimmer. He races mostly Olympics where the swim has a heavier proportional represntation in distance. I can bike and run faster then him but he's able to capture so much time on the swim, one year it took until the last 100 yards of the race for me to catch him and beat him by about one second. Never undersetimate using the weapons you may have.

All I'm saying is that (especially at longer distances) pushing the bike 110% and "picking up" time will likely cost you dearly on the run.  Its a delicate balance.  I know I can run a 10K on pretty much nothing, but I can't do that with a half marathon.

Its going to be an interesting experiement for me this weekend.  The goal is to hold 215 watts on the bike, which on the St. As course will be a pretty fast bike (for a girl) and then get off and run a 48 or so on the 10K (clearly the run is not my strong point).  For a the Quassy half, my watts target will be lower because I'm going to need a lot more for the run.

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

You haven't seen him ride.

I can drop most guys I know on the bike, I cannot drop Rudy.

Great stuff! How did you enjoy the workshop? 

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

sort of like when people say "I am above my max heart rate."  You can neither exceed 100% or your maximum.  but we'll cut rudy a break

Kelly - you are goign to crush St. As.

Rudy - ya know i love you, but that about :47 10K.  I suppose we'll see in September at MV.

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

I'm a Clydesdale, i am allowed the extra 10%.... LOL

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 2:53 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

sort of like when people say "I am above my max heart rate."  You can neither exceed 100% or your maximum.  but we'll cut rudy a break

Kelly - you are goign to crush St. As.

actually you can go 110%

if your FTP on the bike is 200 watts/hr avg and you are required to do 220w for 5 mins you are actually working out at 110% of threshold

mine goes to 11 baby!!!!

fwiw, my 20 min power in january when i tested it was in the hood of 326w avg, 

the last TT i did 2 weeks ago i averaged 416w for 9 mins, just sayin'

a lighter person would require much less power to go the same speed, so it is all relative, this TT was basically a hill climb, turn around and comeback down and then finish on a 1/2 mile 9% climb

keep in mind that aerodynamics are HUGE on a TT bike, with 48" shoulders i am a big sail on my roadie, when i race i am the 2-5 min guy, i can not go on a long break, i have to work too hard, but i will leave before the sprint or lead out a sprinter. In aero on my TT bike, i get my shoulders and front section out of the wind and i am much more proficient, thereby not having to work quite as hard to maintain the same speed (note i did not say power).

Rudy - ya know i love you, but that about :47 10K.  I suppose we'll see in September at MV.

Rudedog55 - 2011-04-28 3:34 PM

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 2:53 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

sort of like when people say "I am above my max heart rate."  You can neither exceed 100% or your maximum.  but we'll cut rudy a break

Kelly - you are goign to crush St. As.

actually you can go 110%

if your FTP on the bike is 200 watts/hr avg and you are required to do 220w for 5 mins you are actually working out at 110% of threshold

 

mine goes to 11 baby!!!!

 

fwiw, my 20 min power in january when i tested it was in the hood of 326w avg, 

the last TT i did 2 weeks ago i averaged 416w for 9 mins, just sayin'

a lighter person would require much less power to go the same speed, so it is all relative, this TT was basically a hill climb, turn around and comeback down and then finish on a 1/2 mile 9% climb

keep in mind that aerodynamics are HUGE on a TT bike, with 48" shoulders i am a big sail on my roadie, when i race i am the 2-5 min guy, i can not go on a long break, i have to work too hard, but i will leave before the sprint or lead out a sprinter. In aero on my TT bike, i get my shoulders and front section out of the wind and i am much more proficient, thereby not having to work quite as hard to maintain the same speed (note i did not say power).

 

Exceeding FTP is not your max power.  It just means you are above threshold and going anerobic, no? 

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 4:10 PM

Rudedog55 - 2011-04-28 3:34 PM

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 2:53 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

sort of like when people say "I am above my max heart rate."  You can neither exceed 100% or your maximum.  but we'll cut rudy a break

Kelly - you are goign to crush St. As.

actually you can go 110%

if your FTP on the bike is 200 watts/hr avg and you are required to do 220w for 5 mins you are actually working out at 110% of threshold

 

mine goes to 11 baby!!!!

 

fwiw, my 20 min power in january when i tested it was in the hood of 326w avg, 

the last TT i did 2 weeks ago i averaged 416w for 9 mins, just sayin'

a lighter person would require much less power to go the same speed, so it is all relative, this TT was basically a hill climb, turn around and comeback down and then finish on a 1/2 mile 9% climb

keep in mind that aerodynamics are HUGE on a TT bike, with 48" shoulders i am a big sail on my roadie, when i race i am the 2-5 min guy, i can not go on a long break, i have to work too hard, but i will leave before the sprint or lead out a sprinter. In aero on my TT bike, i get my shoulders and front section out of the wind and i am much more proficient, thereby not having to work quite as hard to maintain the same speed (note i did not say power).

 

Exceeding FTP is not your max power.  It just means you are above threshold and going anerobic, no? 

max power is pointless, some days my sprints are 1450w max, somedays i suck and they are 1200w max, i cannot keep that for more than a few secs.

but you are still over 100% ftp

Brian or Kelly can correct me, but when you are doing a 20min or 1hr power test for your FTP, you are anerobic for most if not all of it. They hurt like no ones business.

The General Consensus
It's generally agreed that your Functional Threshold Power is the maximal power output you can sustain for the duration of one hour.  It's NOT your "average" power.  As average has a different meaning in a power context to "sustained".

so after reading that,you can be at 110% or better over your FTP, a lot of my hard intervals are well above my FTP, but for much shorter time.

so for me to say that in a 12 mile bike race i will go 110% is actually doable, it will hurt like hell, i would have to average 330w for that 30 mins i am racing on the bike. 

Rudedog55 - 2011-04-28 4:31 PM

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 4:10 PM

Rudedog55 - 2011-04-28 3:34 PM

jsklarz - 2011-04-28 2:53 PM

bryancd - 2011-04-28 1:50 PM 110% sounds like a bit of hyperbole from the Big Dog.

sort of like when people say "I am above my max heart rate."  You can neither exceed 100% or your maximum.  but we'll cut rudy a break

Kelly - you are goign to crush St. As.

actually you can go 110%

if your FTP on the bike is 200 watts/hr avg and you are required to do 220w for 5 mins you are actually working out at 110% of threshold

 

mine goes to 11 baby!!!!

 

fwiw, my 20 min power in january when i tested it was in the hood of 326w avg, 

the last TT i did 2 weeks ago i averaged 416w for 9 mins, just sayin'

a lighter person would require much less power to go the same speed, so it is all relative, this TT was basically a hill climb, turn around and comeback down and then finish on a 1/2 mile 9% climb

keep in mind that aerodynamics are HUGE on a TT bike, with 48" shoulders i am a big sail on my roadie, when i race i am the 2-5 min guy, i can not go on a long break, i have to work too hard, but i will leave before the sprint or lead out a sprinter. In aero on my TT bike, i get my shoulders and front section out of the wind and i am much more proficient, thereby not having to work quite as hard to maintain the same speed (note i did not say power).

 

Exceeding FTP is not your max power.  It just means you are above threshold and going anerobic, no? 

 

max power is pointless, some days my sprints are 1450w max, somedays i suck and they are 1200w max, i cannot keep that for more than a few secs.

but you are still over 100% ftp

Brian or Kelly can correct me, but when you are doing a 20min or 1hr power test for your FTP, you are anerobic for most if not all of it. They hurt like no ones business.

The General Consensus
It's generally agreed that your Functional Threshold Power is the maximal power output you can sustain for the duration of one hour.  It's NOT your "average" power.  As average has a different meaning in a power context to "sustained".

so after reading that,you can be at 110% or better over your FTP, a lot of my hard intervals are well above my FTP, but for much shorter time.

so for me to say that in a 12 mile bike race i will go 110% is actually doable, it will hurt like hell, i would have to average 330w for that 30 mins i am racing on the bike. 

 

jeepers, whose the lawyer now? Your revised argument is logical and accepted.  

Looks much better on the after -- one thing to watch is the position of your elbow under water.  You let it drop pretty quickly.  You want to remember to keep a high elbow (early vertical forearm) during the propulsive portion of your stroke. 

bryancd - 2011-04-28 8:35 PM I LOVE good natured smack talk. You both are course clutter, by the way...

you would be too far ahead of me for me to ever get in your way ;o)

Thanks!  I enjoyed the workshop, but it was mentally draining.  Then when I got back to swimming on my own, I couldn't stop thinking about every little imperfection in my stroke.  I think I've struck a decent balance now.  I was timing some 100s last night, and they were 1:18/100 yds.  I just kept thinking that my times couldn't be right.  The hard work is really starting to pay off, particularly with the swim and the run.  Now....if I could just give my bike some more attention!!!!

That's exactly what the coach said.  The left side drops faster than the right and crosses over pretty badly.  Thanks for taking a peek!

Morning everyone!

Today is an off day for me (its a litle crazy, I had three complete rest days for the month of April).  I'm flying to Tampa this afternoon for St. As.  Tomorrow is super easy / super short efforts in all three disciplines and then the race on Sunday.

What are everybody's plans for the weekend?