General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH! Rss Feed  
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2007-11-17 5:04 PM
in reply to: #1058426

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
I agree with what Joel says and to add to that - once you feel strong enough - 1x per week add in 20' of upper Z2 in your running. Eventually I would make this 2x20' in upper Z2, then 3x20', etc. Keep stressing your system slightly each week-and you'll see how stronger you are in a matter of weeks.


2007-12-03 10:08 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Mike,

I am reading all of this information about HR zones and it makes my head spin. I just got a hrm. I have used it three times. I have done two sprint distance tri's and I have an 8k coming up this Saturday. So, I am pretty new to this sport. Reading how to calculate my LT for my zones is not possible for me at this time. I am not usually running more than 3 miles at a time. I guess what I am wondering, is there a way to try and test for my HR zones? Should I not worry about it yet?
There is so much great information on this thread but I do not know where to start.

Thanks
2007-12-03 10:21 PM
in reply to: #1081809

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Amy - when you do the 8k this weekend, you'll have an LT number. If you are not running more than 3 miles at a time, why are you racing 5 miles?
2007-12-03 10:57 PM
in reply to: #1081828

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
mikericci - 2007-12-03 8:21 PM

Amy - when you do the 8k this weekend, you'll have an LT number. If you are not running more than 3 miles at a time, why are you racing 5 miles?


That made me laugh out loud. I guess my answer in why not. Actually, on of the mom's that I did the tri's with said "why don't we do this." So I signed up. And saying I will be racing is polite. I will be finishing.

So, after finishing can I throw some numbers your way?

I am trying to up my distance, but not using a training plan. Which I think is a big problem. I usually get to 3 - 3.2 miles and feel done. Then i stop. Would it be beneficial after three, walk a minute or two then try to run again? I really do not know how to up my distance without feeling like I an going to fall over. If I am asking too much, please feel free to send me away.

Thanks
2007-12-03 11:29 PM
in reply to: #1081897

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!

Amy, Mike probably will have a better answer than this, but one of the best way's to increase your distance is to go a little slower and increase your total distance by about 10% or so.

Regarding your new HRM like Mike said you will have some good data to work with after the 8k.  Since the hrm is new to you just look at the data the first few times you use it and compare the HR to what you think your effort was on that particular workout. It's just a tool to give "you" feedback on what you are doing.

Have fun and good luck with your race!!!

2007-12-04 6:50 AM
in reply to: #1081897

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!

Amy

Well, I am glad I made you laugh and you took my comment as it was intended. I could give you a few reasons 'why not' but lets stick to the fact that you are motivated and want to improve. I like that. A lot.

So - if you are going to run/walk - you should use the walk breaks from the beginning - and no matter where you are on the course, you should be consistent with them - so a few strategies are 5:2, 8:1, 10:1 etc - those are all run to walk ratios.

Getting on a plan is KEY! It will take the guesswork out of your training - there are MANY options here on BT - from the Bronze all the way up to the Gold level membership. At the Gold level you get to post to a forum where our coaches answer your questions and keep you going in the right direction. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to help.

Good luck in the 8k and please post your info when done.



2007-12-09 10:07 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
I posted my lap times and bpm on my race report. It is on my log from the 8th. Is that the info that you need? Any help you can give me regarding zones would be great. I can post them here if you want me to. I am sure there is some way to post the link to my report but I am unsure how. Thanks again.



2007-12-09 10:19 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Mike--A couple of questions, if you don't mind: I recently won an LT test from a local tri shop. If I can only afford to have my LT tested in one sport, I assume it makes sense to get my run LT. If one has an accurate LT reading in one discipline, can you make assumptions or estimate the LT for the others?

I've done a pretty good job of maintaining my fitness level, but it is the off season after all. Would it make a difference and would you recommend getting tested closer to my first race in March? Is my LT likely to change a lot from now to then?

Thanks for all the info. This is a fantastic thread.
2007-12-10 10:31 AM
in reply to: #1091782

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!

Hi Amy

Looks like your average HR the last 30 minutes was about 179 - plug that into the BT HR calculator and you'll have your run zones. Good job on the run, sounds like it was cold. It was snowing and 18F when I ran yesterday, so not sure how cold, 'cold' is. ;-)

Great job on the race!

2007-12-10 10:34 AM
in reply to: #1091811

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!

I would do the LT test in my stronger sport for now and follow up with the weaker sport later. Typically there is an 8-12 beat difference and as you get more fit, the gap will narrow.

I would get tested as often as possible, but remember, you can do a field test anytime you want - so you can test 1x per month if you feel up to it. Will your LT change much? That depend on how your training goes and how your training plan is set up. :-)

2007-12-10 11:06 AM
in reply to: #1091811

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!

What type of test did you win?  Regardless, I think it makes sense to get it done ASAP.  The purpose of testing for LTHR is so that you can establish appropriate training zones to guide your intensity.  If you wait till March what do you propose to use for the next few months to guide your training?  Like Mike said, field tests are a great (inexpensive) way to re-test on a regular basis.  The key is to set yourself up with a protocol that you can repeat with minimal variation.  For instance, map out a specific loop that you will use to run or ride and do your best to test in similar conditions including your hydration, nutrition, fatigue, and sleep...not just weather.  Typically bike LT is 8-10bpm lower compared to run but that is a generalization that might not apply to you.  It's fine to use for now if that's the best you have but since a field test (or indoor trainer) is free I'd say you can definitely do better.

jmk-brooklyn - 2007-12-09 11:19 PM Mike--If I can only afford to have my LT tested in one sport, I assume it makes sense to get my run LT. If one has an accurate LT reading in one discipline, can you make assumptions or estimate the LT for the others? I've done a pretty good job of maintaining my fitness level, but it is the off season after all. Would it make a difference and would you recommend getting tested closer to my first race in March? Is my LT likely to change a lot from now to then? Thanks for all the info. This is a fantastic thread.



2007-12-10 11:48 AM
in reply to: #1092470

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
TH3_FRB - 2007-12-10 11:06 AM

What type of test did you win?  Regardless, I think it makes sense to get it done ASAP.  The purpose of testing for LTHR is so that you can establish appropriate training zones to guide your intensity.  If you wait till March what do you propose to use for the next few months to guide your training?  Like Mike said, field tests are a great (inexpensive) way to re-test on a regular basis.  The key is to set yourself up with a protocol that you can repeat with minimal variation.  For instance, map out a specific loop that you will use to run or ride and do your best to test in similar conditions including your hydration, nutrition, fatigue, and sleep...not just weather.  Typically bike LT is 8-10bpm lower compared to run but that is a generalization that might not apply to you.  It's fine to use for now if that's the best you have but since a field test (or indoor trainer) is free I'd say you can definitely do better.



I won an LT test where they take periodic blood samples as you run on a treadmill, or use a trainer or endless pool, so I assume that it's pretty accurate. The shop, Cadence Cycling, advertises lots of high-tech physiological testing (VO2 Max, etc.), and the test normally costs $175, so it's a nice prize.
I'll take your advice and get it done ASAP.

Thanks!
2007-12-10 2:41 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
$175 is WAY expensive for a standard LT test.  For that kind of cash you should get full VO2max protocol with respiratory gas analysis and all.  As long as it's free go for it.  Just keep in mind that field test results might not be directly comparable deoending on their protocols so unless you plan to fork over $175 on a regular basis to get re-tested you'll likely want to establish a simple repeatable field test anyway.  I bucked up for a full VO2max test set  for both bike and run a couple years back and while it was interesting...especially knowing my VO2max (a measure of potential)...I still end up doing informal field tests to guide my training.
2007-12-10 4:46 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Thanks for the info, Mike.


2007-12-10 9:17 PM
in reply to: #1092997

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
TH3_FRB - 2007-12-10 2:41 PM

$175 is WAY expensive for a standard LT test.  For that kind of cash you should get full VO2max protocol with respiratory gas analysis and all.  As long as it's free go for it.  Just keep in mind that field test results might not be directly comparable deoending on their protocols so unless you plan to fork over $175 on a regular basis to get re-tested you'll likely want to establish a simple repeatable field test anyway.  I bucked up for a full VO2max test set  for both bike and run a couple years back and while it was interesting...especially knowing my VO2max (a measure of potential)...I still end up doing informal field tests to guide my training.


Cadence is pretty much WAY expensive for everything. It's the Neiman-Marcus of bike shops. If you feel that the only thing keeping you from the podium is that you don't have custom-molded footbeds in your cycling shoes, they're the place for you.(cadencecycling.com)

I've tried to do field tests in the past, but never felt entirely comfortable with the results. I think this is a good opportunity to get a reliable measurement as a baseline, and that way I'll at least have an idea if my field test results make sense or not.

Just out of curiosity, what would you say is a reasonable price to pay for an LT test and a VO2max? Keep in mind that I'm in NYC, not VA.
2007-12-10 10:04 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
I have no idea what to expect for NYC but a standard LT test using blood samples on the treadmill or trainer should run about $75 and a full VO2max test might be in the $100-150 range.


2007-12-11 7:12 AM
in reply to: #1093994

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Here in Boulder an LT test would be around $120 and full VO2 around $100 and both together would be $200. And these guys are top notch at what they do.
2007-12-14 8:11 AM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Mike, I ran a 10K 2 weeks ago, and had an average HR of 171.  I do a 4:1 run/walk, so my question is.....can or should I trust that number as my LT for HR training purposes?  Or should I go out and just run the 30 minute test with no walk breaks?
2007-12-14 11:42 AM
in reply to: #1101525

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
If you ran the 10k using walk/run and you train using walk/run then that's great and I'd say you are set with the right numbers for now.
2007-12-14 12:19 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
I would agree with Mike and say that an LT test is the best way to see where your fitness is early season so you know where you are starting from.  I have my athletes workout for a few weeks then do a flat out 30 minute LT run test or use an LT from a 10k.  You need to find the time or you may be training in the wrong zones to early in the season.  I feel it is important to keep running over the "off season"  to keep tendons and ligiments is shape so to speak.  My 2cents.
2008-01-03 1:58 PM
in reply to: #237705

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
I'm hoping for some more help.

I did a 5k race and used it as my Running LT field test. Ended up with an average of 189 over the last 23 minutes. My official time was 33:44.

My HRM sets zones based on Max HR. Is my max just the upper number of Zone 5c if I plug my average into the BT Calculator? That ends up being 209.


2008-01-03 2:04 PM
in reply to: #1131384

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Dave - see if there is an option to put HRs into the HRM using a customized option. I would also use 95% of the last 20 minutes - just to be safe. From there figure out the max and it might look a little more realistic.
2008-01-03 2:24 PM
in reply to: #1131397

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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Thanks for the quick response!

I can put in 3 custom zones. I am hoping that if I get the max correct the pre-programmed zones will line up. Not likely, but here's to hoping.

How do I figure out the max from the LT test?

I get 179.9 from 95% of the last 20 minutes.


Edited by graceful_dave 2008-01-03 2:25 PM
2008-01-03 2:43 PM
in reply to: #1131460

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8763
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Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
My rule of thumb is 20 beats above LT - so for you around 200. If you can put in 3 zones, put in the bottom of Zone 2, Zone 3, and Zone 4. That way you'll know anything that is under Zone 1 (recovery and easy warm up and cool down efforts), and anything over Zone 4 is race pace and above. That's how I've done it on my polar watches in the past.
2008-01-03 3:00 PM
in reply to: #1131526

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Champion
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Subject: RE: HR Zones: 220-Age - the TRUTH!
Thanks so much! The mystery is a little less mysterious!
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