Jonathan22's mentor group - CLOSED (Page 14)

It changes quite a bit. On 50s, I can do :41 or so which translates to a 1:20 pace. Clearly, on a 400, I'm about a 1:31 pace.   The key to swimming faster is to do a variety of workouts, a variety of distances and a variety of paces.  Doing fast 50s help as do 200 repeats (they suck BTW - short enough to go all out but painful).  Doing long sets at a half ironman pace help too.  

 

Yes, swimming is harder to improve since it is so technique oriented.  There is a point where it is technique and then there is a point where it just power/aerobic capacity in the water.  I think once you are below 1:50/100m in the water, you have most of the technique down and need to work on your power and aerobic capacity in the water.  Above that, and you probably should be working mostly technique.

That said, I think one really needs to look at AG placings to determine where to invest the most time.  We often train the things the hardest that we like the most.  I feel most comfortable in the water so I tend to train that harder.  Then again, looking at my AG placings, I usually start very high in the swim and loose spots on the bike and a few more on the run.

So I should be working on run the hardest and that is also the sport that I like the least (and I come from a running background too).   

Compounding those thoughts are that if you look at the winners of most tris, it comes down to the run after a solid bike.  That's a long way of saying that a 5% improvement in your bike or run translates to a much better improvment in overall time than a 5% improvement in your swim.

Thanks for the info! 

I will be more than happy to start doing some shorter/faster stuff after this program is over...40 laps w/o a break right now is mind numbing for me!

This is such a generic post, but anyone else here HATE the 5am workouts as much as I do? My swim class is at 530a & I just can't get my butt out of bed some mornings - especially after we switched the clocks for DST. 

 I am just not a morning person at all. I wish my job would allow me a 2.5 hour break everyday so I could go train and swim and then come back.

Any advice for gettin out of bed?  ha!

Holly

How long have you been doing it?  I used to work out in the afternoons, but switched a few years ago.  After awhile you just get used to it and it becomes part of your day.  I'm usually tired when I wake up but I drive 50 miles so by the time I get to the gym at 5:30, I've been up for an hour already and have some caffeine in me and I'm usually ready to go.

I'd say sleep more, but who has time for that?  I get about 5.5hrs a night routinely and I'm still alive.  I know it's not ideal though.

I hop right out of bed because I know my wife will get pissed off if I keep hitting snooze or start waking her up from her sleep since she sleeps about 2hrs more than me and gets up at 6:30 with the baby.

I just consider it part of the mental toughness required to do what I need to do really.  Good luck!  I wish I could do long lunches and workout then too

I know I HATE my wife's 5am workouts (she is doing the tri thing also).  Hearing her stupid alarm squack away at 4:45 3x a week really sucks!  As for me...no way I could go workout that early on a regular basis!!!  I am lucky enough to have a Y 5 minutes from work and I do my swims/runs at lunch and then run/bike somethimes in the evening after I get home and play with the kiddo. 

Bless ya'll that get up that early! 

Thanks for the advice.  The Forza tri shorts came in yesterday and the mediums fit perfect even though I was between sizes.  This de soto stuff seems pretty darn comfy! 

I'm a morning workout person, but not sure I can give you any advice on how to handle it. It seems to me people have a "natural" workout clock that is easiest to follow.  I get up between 5 and 6 every morning to go workout.  I'm the opposite - if I try to workout at lunch or at night I just don't have the umph to do it.  I wish I could get out at lunch and go for a bike ride but when I do it, my heart just isn't quite in it.  It's hard to get up early, but I just always tell myself how I will be happy when it's over and glad that I got up and did it.  It does become part of the routine, and if I skip a day I end up feeling like a slug.  That helps with the motivation.
 

Alright, I'm just going to have to take your advice and keep getting up early and hope it gets easier. It certainly is with having a baby (she is almost one) so if I get up early before the husband and baby and get to the gym and get my workout out of the way on some days, it certainly helps. I usually run w/ her in the jogger on other days (not in the AM!

Acumenjay~I cannot operate on 5.5 hrs of sleep every night. I admire you and thought of you driving 50 miles every morning to get to the gym one morning when I was driving in. Certainly some motivation to not complain! Mental toughness is right.

Had my 30 mile bike race (tour) this weekend. What a blast. Lots of nice people and cruel as hell headwinds and crosswinds the whole way back. It also was sprinkling on us so I waas scared to corner to fast around some of the turns on the roads (many were 90 degree turns). 

 I was dying on a couple of the hills, avgg 9 mphs in the headwinds coming back in the last 4 miles! ha. But averaged the race at 17mph, which is good for me. Nothing like mother nature to whip yo' butt into riding shape! I love how hard it can be to ride outdoors. Elements you cannot predict. Unpredicted challenges.

They had some rest stops where they had homemade cookies!!  How awesome is that?! I didn't stop to use the restroom and grab some cookies til mile 18.  My brother in law got a flat but otherwise the race was fun. I had never ridden that long and wanted to get a feel for my Olympic I am shooting for in Sept and my legs felt like they do after running a marathon. ....Nothing some ibuprofen, a glass of wine and watching the NFL draft that afternoon couldn't cure  !!!

Regarding morning workouts, with work, school, kids and everything else, I find that is the only time I can consistently get workouts in.  I am not a morning person but I force myself to get out of bed at 4:45am most mornings.  

In other news, had the first tri of the season.  PR with a 1:06.  Sprints hurt bad and I might retire from them.  LOL.   

Got my sub 20:00 5k this morning!  WoooHooo!  19:37 and a 3rd place AG medal (well actually an apron :-) to boot. 

Very excited to get under the 20m mark, especially since most of my training has been 1/2 marathon training.  Even had my mom there to watch (in visiting from PA) so that was cool.  It was a painful 19:37 but now I can say I am "sub 20"!

Awesome Job!  Saturday is my first Sprint Tri, although it is a bit bigger than a sprint and didnt realize this when I originally signed up.  It is .45 mile swim, 23.5 mile bike and 4 mile run.  Really looking forward to seeing where my training has put me and what I need to focus more on.  Up till now I have been kinda unsure as to if I have my training focused to where it should be.  Really looking forward to getting this first one under my belt, and then truely attacking the training for the year.



Thats Awesome!  I just ran my first 5K in a year on Wednesday and was very happy with my result.  I didnt want to push too hard, being as my first tri is Saturday, but felt I gave it a great effort.  I finished first in my AG, with a 23:15 time.  Now it wasnt a true race, being as it was for charity, but I am still happy with the result.  Especially since my shins held up well and legs felt great the next day.

Saturday is the true test and looking forward to it.

Easy day and still won your AG?  Congradulations!!!  Good luck tomorrow!!

Thanks bgraboski....

Here is a last minute question before race day that I want to try and get others opinions on.  I purchased tri-specific cycling shoes and was wondering everyones thoughts on to leave them clipped on the bike and jump on at the mount line or to run through transition with them on?

Have you tried it at home or on the trainer?  I tried the other night on the trainer and it was a disaster!  I couldn't even get one foot in!

Yeah, I tried it the other day real fast and just went out for a light ride to the park and every parking lot I passed I gave it a go.  It wasnt too bad.  I definately did not do it very fast but was able to let the shoe drop, swing and catch it on the way back up to let my foot slide in.  I don't want to have to deal with mud getting stuck in my cleats and not being able to click in as a result.

^^^

So how did the race go?


Question for the seasoned tri people...how often do you do bricks? 

I did my first one Friday (15m/2m) and the feeling in my legs was not exactly what I expected!  I tried to simulate "almost race pace" so I did a 15 mile ride at 20.5mph (I normally avg around 19) and then ran two miles. 

I had no idea how fast I was going when I started running.  My legs didn't hurt per say, just numb.  Took about 3/4m before they felt normal.  I actually did the run quite a bit faster than I anticipated so I was surprised there. 

I feel like I should do one every week to get the feeling but most people say just a couple before the race will suffice.  What do you guys think?

PS - Thanks Jonathon for the De Soto shorts recommendation.  I was shocked at how comfy the de soto tri shorts were on the run.  I have been using them on the bike but thought they would only be ok for the run...actually they may be more comfy than my Race Ready shorts!

Your experience is about the same as mine.  First few miles running off a long bike don't feel very good but once the legs warm up, they are fine.  

My coach lays out my schedule but I pretty much do a short break every Sat (something like 55 mile ride and 4 mile run).  

No problem on the DeSoto tri shorts.  I wore mine last weekend on my long run. 

Thanks for asking.  It took me a bit to get the race report together.  All in all, for it being my first one, and a long sprint at that, it was a good time.  I learned a ton and look forward to the next one.  I put together a race report in my logs.  Can't wait to get my cycling legs under me more.

Are/were you a competive swimmer?  Looked at your race report and you had a "bad" swim at 1:36/100.  I can barely hit that when I do 100yd fast intervals and certainly not over 750!  My head would explode!

Congrads on your first one!  I am excited for my first but I have a full month to go!  I REALLY wish I had a wetsuit so I could get into some of these spring races.  Mentally I am ready to go.  Physically I need a lot more bike miles and as far as the swimming...well that is just OK but when you haven't swam a lap in the previous 20 years, I don't expect much!

HA! Thanks for asking that, but that would be a negative on the competitive swimming.  That swim was with my wetsuit so I am sure that helped my times.  I just picked up swimming for the first time around the end of January/ February of this year.  I guess I just expected to swim better overall.  I honestly had to stop and go for the first half of the swim and it took a lot out of me.  Swimming was a struggle when I first started since I never knew the techniques of competitive swimming ( I only knew how to swim in the backyard pool, with my head out of the water the whole time).

This group has been pretty quiet lately.  I guess everyone is out training and racing!  I thought I'd throw out a quick race report from last weekend.  I did the Green Bay Marathon on Sunday.  It was a great race, good setup, "easy" course and very cool if you are a football fan.

The weather was just about perfect, temps from 40-60, partly cloudy.  The only downside was a bit of a wind towards the end, but even that was not so terrible.  My goal for the race was to complete it in less than 4 hours.  I was on track for the first 20 miles, finishing those at a 9:07 pace right at 3 hours.  But a knee issue and just general fatigue slowed me down the last 6.2 and I finished in 4:12:14.  So, I didn't make the goal, but I still enjoyed it.  If anyone lives near Green Bay or wants to travel, this is a good one to plan for.  The course is nearly flat, and you get to run a lap around the inside of Lambeau Field.    

4:12 is still a great time.  I have had some spetacular blowups and have yet to even break 5 hours.  Sounds like a great marathon. 

hey guys...
Sorry I've been one of the "quiet" ones. Been  busy w/ my baby turning ONE Family in town, getting in (and ramping up) training and some races (and now a sick child, so my double workout days are nonexistent this week). Poor thing. I AM starting to take to the 530am workouts. You guys were right...you do get used to it. There is a swim group that meets for an hr and 15 mins everyday that I go to and MAN they are SERIOUS! Lots of masters swimmers and then us Tri people over in the slower lanes. But all the workouts are between 2100 and 3600 meters! Dang!

I completed my first tri last weekend. It was a mini sprint so I could see how my knee would handle it and it was great! It was a nice small race and I was dumbfounded when I looked at the results and got 2nd in my AG!! Then they said they were finalizing them and would email out the final results to make sure everyone did all the loops on the bike and run (as we had to count our own- duh). Apparently the woman ahead of me didn't do all 5 loops on the bike, so that made me FIRST in AG! woot! I beat 2nd place by :05 seconds!!

I am anxiously awaiting my award in the mail!! My running has most certainly suffered from my lack of training and being in PT these last months from my knee, but my bike and swim are so much better and faster. I came in 1st in AG in swim and bike.  The swim was a pool swim, so that was a nice start to tri's. I wasn't too anxious about the swim.

As for the rest of the race, it started raining a bit on the bike ride which was scary. Then I chose to wear my knee brace during the run, so there I was in transition with one more thing to do and trying to pull it up on a wet leg from the rain was almost impossible.  I see what you  mean Jonathan about sprints being hard b/c you go all out on them. My lungs were burning once I started running b/c I had pushed so hard on the swim and the bike. I was zone 8 and 9 the whole time. I have the easiest time settling into my run (since that is/was my best sport- or at least what I am used to). So I slowed on that and caught my breath. I hated my run time but I cannot run as fast yet. Am still ramping up.

Anyhoo....my next one is the Danskin on June 7th. I doubt I will place in that one since it is a lot larger race, but I don't care .. I like the feeling of finishing. This certainly is ADDICTING!!

I have done one open water swim in training and need to do a couple more. There is a "heebie jeebie" factor I've got to get over b/c I know there are snakes in our lakes and such.  

You guys all have a wonderful long weekend/holiday!
Holly