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2011-07-12 4:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Help! Swimming!
wbayek - 2011-07-12 12:38 PM

pgrun - 2011-07-12 9:21 AM Thanks for the kind words- and you hit the nail on the head with your description of the open water "feeling" - generally swim 2x/week-but work has gottn in the way the past few months - I'll ask the masters group if anyone knows of an open water swim training/area/group - did 1800 in about 40 + a short warmdown today - i can swim ok - no fish- but the open water really feels 100% different - and I need a little help getting through it (kinda makes me feel better others have felt the same way out in the water)

Is there any chance to swim in the same lakes the races are in?  There's no question open water is totally different than pool swimming.  Not being able to see, currents and swells, no edge to gauge progress, unknown creatures, etc., all contribute.  I think Eli is spot on in that it's critical to go slow and easy.  I'm amazed how little speed I lose when I swim easy.  Just forget the world, forget the lake, and just find something in your stroke or whatever to occupy you.  Like Eli has the "slow is smooth..." mantra.  I count my strokes between breaths, watch the bubbles off my hands and try to minimize them, or whatever I can do to relax and stay smooth.

I would advise trying any way to get more open water swims in.  This is one place where I just don't think you can get around the specificity of the training.  

I disdain the pool at the same level many people hate treadmills.  I'm very lucky to live near lots of lakes as well as the ocean, and we spend weekends at our camp on a major lake up here.  I do almost all my swimming in lakes and the ocean, and as such I'm very comfortable in the open water swimming.  The down side is that all the water around here freezes in December until April so I'm out of luck all winter!  Good luck and it will get easier the more you do it!

Went swimming in the open water today.  First time since my last race.  It never fails, I always get really nervous on the way there and when getting into the water.  As soon as I start to swim though I relax as I remember that it really does feel good to swim without any restrictions.  As I continue to swim I just go until feel like I need a little break, then I roll to my back and do a little elem. backstroke and enjoy the sun and clouds (and air) for a few strokes.  Then back over and freestyle.  Today I swam over to the point and back, about 800 meters total.  I then went back out for 100 strokes and then turned around and came back.  Based on time I am figuring around 1000 meters.  I love the slow and smooth suggestion.  I think I am using it but never really thought about it in that way.  I just keep thinking easy stroke, glide, relax.  Once I get past the first couple hundred meters and I am warmed up I seem to settle in and am able to relax a little more.  I found myself today a little lost in space and when I sighted I had turned almost 90 degrees.  Oops, but what the heck, that what it is about, relaxing and just swimming.  Just get turned and try to keep a better line.  It was fun today to be back in the lake.



2011-07-12 9:32 PM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
Thanks for all the help! s l o w and smooth I'll take to the bank-its something I can practice at the pool. I've been making some calls about a weekend lake swim-hope I can work something ut before next tri. Its really a wierd feeling I get about 100-150 yards into the lake swim-something that does not happen in the pool.
2011-07-13 1:07 AM
in reply to: #3593826

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

pgrun - 2011-07-12 10:32 PM Thanks for all the help! s l o w and smooth I'll take to the bank-its something I can practice at the pool. I've been making some calls about a weekend lake swim-hope I can work something ut before next tri. Its really a wierd feeling I get about 100-150 yards into the lake swim-something that does not happen in the pool.

 

It's that oh crap, feeling a little tired, sure would be nice to touch bottom or have that wall within 25m or less.  Oh crap, there is no bottom or wall, just gotta keep swimming, but I am tired!!

The thing is that if you just keep swimming (slow and smooth, I love it!!)  that the feeling goes away and you work into your own little rhythm and world.

I just have to say, that after my first tri, I thought that the swim would be the one thing that would stop me from continuing.  Now that I have been training in open water I know that it is just some mind games that I have to play and that I can get through it.

2011-07-13 8:05 AM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Hey All,

Hows it going?

Good chatter this week. OWS is a difficult part of triathlon, but once you get that comfort, it does become easier. 

Having a good training week this week, but work is about to get VERY busy. Trying to make some plans, as I will be out of town and doing some day and night classes next week. 

That will really mess up your schedule.

Our tri gear came in this week. I will post up some pictures soon, but it made the hassle of a custom order worth it to see how cool it looks!

2011-07-14 5:27 PM
in reply to: #3281614

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NH
Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

I'm getting a little frustrated with my Achilles.  I did a nice easy 5k today and it was a little sore.  Nothing too bad, but I just don't know if I should stop running even if it's just a little uncomfortable.  Eli - I know you've had some experience with this.

My ART guy doesn't think it's anything serious since with a few tweaks he can make the pain totally disappear, which he says wouldn't happen if the tendon were compromised.  And there's no swelling per is last examination.  His advice was do anything without pain, but I guess I don't know what "pain" really means.  Suppose I better get more specific next time I see him.

Anyone else have experience with this?

2011-07-14 9:50 PM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
Hey everybody!I am posting this with my iPad so formatting will look funny. Just wanted to check in and apologize for disappearing for awhile. I went camping with the family which messed with my final couple weeks of training pretty good. I am also struggling with allergies/asthma right now and hoping all gets better by Sunday. So I am trying to get healthy and rested, on an antibiotic for sinusitis and prednisone to reduce inflammation. Hopefully will be better by Sunday for the HIM.I have some catching up to do and will do that I the morning hopefully.Oh yeah temp on Sunday is going to be in the 90s. Ouch


2011-07-15 6:47 AM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Warren,

If your ART guy can help the pain, you are probably in better shape than I am.

I know that I use ice still on a regular basis and also do self massage just about every time I run.

It seems to keep it under control for me.

Did you check your shoes/ Are they worn? Did you change something in your stride?

I have been working on doing more core and leg strength work to make sure I am not leaving muscles behind. Squats and lunges seem to be helping.

2011-07-15 6:48 AM
in reply to: #3597452

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Charlie,

Don't worry about the last few weeks. That was your taper anyway!

Being rested is the best you can do at this point, and keep it slow and steady. An HIM is an exercise in pacing and suffering. My best advice is to try to run your race, and not get excited by the fact you are doing an HIM.

2011-07-15 7:53 AM
in reply to: #3597676

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NH
Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
eliwashere - 2011-07-15 7:47 AM

Warren,

If your ART guy can help the pain, you are probably in better shape than I am.

I know that I use ice still on a regular basis and also do self massage just about every time I run.

It seems to keep it under control for me.

Did you check your shoes/ Are they worn? Did you change something in your stride?

I have been working on doing more core and leg strength work to make sure I am not leaving muscles behind. Squats and lunges seem to be helping.

Thanks Eli.  I'm wondering if dropping the kettlebells is a piece of this.  I stopped kb workouts a few weeks prior to this pain pooping up.  I decided to start them back up and stick with them, even if it means a little less S/B/R time.  I know there's a lot of talk about that not being "ideal" for tri specificity, but I like the feeling from kb fitness, and I think my core really suffers when I stop.  It's not like I'm threatening the podium anyway!

2011-07-15 7:55 AM
in reply to: #3597452

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NH
Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

chmoore2 - 2011-07-14 10:50 PM Hey everybody!I am posting this with my iPad so formatting will look funny. Just wanted to check in and apologize for disappearing for awhile. I went camping with the family which messed with my final couple weeks of training pretty good. I am also struggling with allergies/asthma right now and hoping all gets better by Sunday. So I am trying to get healthy and rested, on an antibiotic for sinusitis and prednisone to reduce inflammation. Hopefully will be better by Sunday for the HIM.I have some catching up to do and will do that I the morning hopefully.Oh yeah temp on Sunday is going to be in the 90s. Ouch

Charlie, no sweat on these last few weeks.  You've done the real work, just show up as healthy as you can.  And if the temps are that high, please forget (or adjust) your pre-determined goals.  Just take the day as it comes and leave plenty for the run.  Those last 4 miles are tough! 

Good luck and I can't wait to read that race report.

2011-07-15 1:08 PM
in reply to: #3597781

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

If the temp is really in the 90s my goal will be to finish within the cut off times.  I am not willing to risk heat related issues for a race.  I biked in the heat and don't mind that but running really takes it out of me.

Here are my goals:  Swim = 45 Minutes, been around that during training,  Bike 3:15 - 3:30, Run 2:30 - 3:00.

That run pace is lower than I was originally going to shoot for but seems realistic, and maybe optimistic with heat factor.

I'll be happy finishing, and very happy with <7 hours.

 

 

 



2011-07-16 10:05 AM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
On my way to packet pick up and to check into the Athlete Village.  Excited and nervous!
2011-07-17 7:01 PM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

I finished!  Tough swim for some reason and Brutal Run.  Way too hot.  Didn't get 7 hours like I wanted but 7:33.  I got my moneys worth from the course for sure.

I will do a race report in the next day or two.  Thanks for all the well wishes and thoughts.

2011-07-18 11:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Hey everyone, good to see you all tearing it up out there.  I am finally getting back into the swing of things here after my knee issue.  It's funny how you can feel lazy and out of shape after an injury, something totally new to me.  Anyway, I have had a few short runs to test the waters the last week and a half or so, so this weekend I ran 4 miles and it felt great.  Still a little scared to get on the bike though, as that was what hurt me in the first place.  I am going to get on it this week for some short "for fun rides" and see how it feels.  

I have a Sprint in August that I am hoping to get into, but that only leaves me 5 weeks left to get back into shape, and I no longer have access to a pool, so I guess I won't be going so fast, but I just want to finish a race at this point.  Thanks to everyone for the advice on the knee, I have been doing a lot of the stretches and things on the ATA site, and it has really helped.  Thanks again.

2011-07-18 11:31 AM
in reply to: #3600685

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NH
Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
chmoore2 - 2011-07-17 8:01 PM

I finished!  Tough swim for some reason and Brutal Run.  Way too hot.  Didn't get 7 hours like I wanted but 7:33.  I got my moneys worth from the course for sure.

I will do a race report in the next day or two.  Thanks for all the well wishes and thoughts.

Great job Charlie.  The heat is a real wild card, and you gutted out a tough run. Can't wait to read the race report.

Being up in the frozen Northeast, I can't fathom how you guys in warm climates do it.  I'm still 50/50 on my arm and leg warmers on my morning bike rides!  Over 80 and I'm huffing like a crazy person running.  And a non-wetsuit swim sounds like science fiction to me.

2011-07-18 8:47 PM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Hey everybody just finished my race report!  Here you go

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=261298



Edited by chmoore2 2011-07-18 8:49 PM


2011-07-19 1:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Hey all,

Congrats on your race Charlie. I can relate to the heat issue! I rode 2 x this weekend, and I think I lost 25 lbs in water. Har to drink that much while you ride.

I can't imagine running in the heat, although I had some decent runs last week. I do need to start upping my volume, so I guess there is no time like the present.

Welcome back to Colby. Go slow, but enjoy it! As for a pool, aren't you in Ocala, don't you have a lake nearby?

2011-07-19 4:12 PM
in reply to: #3281614

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Charlie - Nice race.  Congratulations on finishing your first HIM!!!  I imagine it feels really good.  I hope to do Augusta 70.3 in fall of 2012. 

 

Some really cool developments in the last couple of weeks.

When I started doing this last fall my wife was pretty negative in the sense that she offered no encouragement.  I guess she thought I would get started and get tired of it and quit.  Well I did not, have not and will not quit.  Over time she saw that I was serious and warmed up to it.  She was very supportive during the last two races and even hinting that she thought she could beat me.  We were both in the army and ran a lot there.  She was a lifeguard while in the military and rode her bike a lot even as she was older.

Well last week she ran two times.  I joked with her and asked if she was training to beat me.  She said she did not have a working bike to ride.  Well I have been toying around with fixing up her old 1979 Schwinn Le Tour.  She loves that bike and it has a lot of sentimental value to her.  It has been sitting in a barn for about 12 years now.  It had a broken spoke on the back wheel and the steel wheels were pretty rusted.  I went and got new wheels and tires for it last week.  I put new bearings in the bottom bracket and greased the head set.  I also cleaned up the front chain rings.  Also put new brake pads on it.  It is not perfect yet.  It needs some additional tweaking and cleaning but it is rideable.  This afternoon we went for a ride at her pace and had a pretty good time.  It was a short ride, just under 9 miles, but it was a start.  The bike rode as good as it ever has in her words and she had fun.

Just thought I would share with everyone.

2011-07-20 1:13 PM
in reply to: #3281614

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NH
Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

That's a great story Bill.  It's awesome to share the fitness deal with your spouse.  Maybe she'll be joining you at the start line someday.

My wife runs with me occasionally and I always enjoy those runs the most.  I guess I should say I run with her because she has been running forever and I’m new.  She also bikes and swims, but has zero competitive bones in her body so she has no interest in doing a tri.

Great race Charlie, gutting through that kind of heat takes some serious HTFU.  I keep saying it, but I have no idea how you guys do anything in that kind of heat.  We’re getting just a few days of the 90s up here and I’m nothing but a blabbering complain-head!


2011-07-20 11:22 PM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
That's awesome Bill. My wife is also started to get interested in tri and is actually racing her first in August. I think we are setting a great examples for our two boys, and gives us another thing to share.
2011-07-20 11:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
One more thing guys - be careful training in the heat everybody has been experiencing. My wife went to our local tri club's weekly practice tri tonight. She is prepping for first race ever in August. One of the girls in her training group ended up in an ambulance likely with heat stroke. She collapsed and when help first arrived they had a very hard time finding a pulse, she was pretty unresponsive. Not exactly sure the outcome yet but training is not that important. Be careful and know your limits. Stay cool.


2011-07-22 8:46 AM
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NH
Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
That sounds scary Charlie.  I was going to do a 60 mile ride after work to meet my family at the place we're doing a family reunion this weekend, but with temps expected to hit 100 and high humidity to boot, I'm driving!
2011-07-22 10:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED

Hey All,

Sorry I have been quiet. I have been traveling all week and working some crazy hours.

Bill, that is great news. I love wrenching on my bike. Don't forget to lock it up after you fix it up. I converted my hybrid to a roadie and did a bunch of upgrades. The week after I finished, it got stolen.

As for the heat, PLEASE BE CAREFUL. One of the most important things is to really pay attention to your body. You HAVE to slow down in the heat. You also really need to plan your hydration and electrolytes.

Especially with the longer rides/runs. Once you get over about 90 minutes, you need to be thinking of how to stay healthy.

No one wants their healthy hobby to get them hurt!

2011-07-23 6:32 AM
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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
Talk about the heat.  Went for a run on Thursday.  It was about noon.  Decided in the beginning that I was going to run/walk.  Ran 0.5 miles, walk 30".  Run to 1 mile mark, walk 60".  Ran to 1.5 mile mark, walk 60", ran to 1.8 miles and walked the rest of the way to complete the 3.4 miles on the scheduled training.  It was really hot and even walking my heart rate was really up there just trying to keep cool.  Had set a water bottle at the a point on the run that I pass at 1 mile and 2.5 miles.  By the time I got to the 2.5 miles I sure was glad it was there.  Yes it is HOT! Yes, do be careful!  It is about 7:30 on Saturday morning and I am getting ready to go run.  Weather channel says it is 76 and feels like 76.  Should be much better compared to the other day when it said it was over 90 and feels like 100.
2011-07-24 8:07 PM
in reply to: #3611076

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Subject: RE: Eli's Getting Ready for the Season Group-CLOSED
ran 6 miles and in that time lost somewhere between 4-5 pounds ... thats a bit much for such a short distance if you ask me but I weighed in after the run at 137, haven't been that low in a long time and I'm usually 142-145 so that was interesting...gonna wear my camelback hydration belt for all the rest of my runs until the summer wears off.
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