kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2012 - CLOSED (Page 14)

Got in a short run this afternoon and heading to bootcamp tonight.

Beautiful weather today here, sunny but cold still.

I did a 30 min threshold test on trainer tonight.  Glad that is over with. 

Swim and easy spin tomorrow.

Rizer - hope you are OK!

Scott - Puke was a theme for us this holiday too!! Lots of it!

I hope everyone had a great holiday. We are still at the in-laws and planning to leave tomorrow. Did a quick run while I was here - tried to stay in my HR zones for z1. I had to run a 13-13:30 min mile to stay at around 150bpm (my z1 is 120-154) which is SOOO slow. However, when I walked a 13:00 my HR went to 119. So, while I am trying to figure out this HR training, should I jog really slowly or briskly walk. I felt like I got nothing out of today by doing this slow of anything. I am basing my zones on the last 5K I did where the max HR for the last 20 minutes was 182. Here is what they looked like when I plugged them into the computer -

 Any thoughts? Am I doing this correctly? I would like to do at least moderate level intensity - so would that be z2? How long before I start to see improvement and can run faster?

Thanks!

I second this question.  I'm pretty sure I'm doing it right, but it's just SO frustrating to have to slow down so much.  I almost need to walk to stay in Z2, which feels like a total waste of time.

Doing my 30 min bike and run TTs on Wednesday to refine my zones, for now I calculated them using a couple different methods that seemed to give fairly consistent numbers (I was away from home).  My Z2 (for now) is 137-147 BPM (yikes, humbling much?).

On the ride home today I was explaining all this to my husband and his eyes just glazed over.  Nice.

On base training: Mark Allen - when he stared training with Phil Maffatone (the father of modern HR training), kept his HR below 150 for his entire base training.  Allen had to walk some of the time too.  Get over it. Train slow so when its time to go fast you can.  Trust me.  I does work.  Just ask Mark Allen.

I had to walk yesterday too.  I am starting over.  Building a base is about preparing the body for adaptions needed to train and race to potential.  Your lung capacity increases faster than what I call "muscular endurance" or kelly would call "durability", but really means the physiological adaptations associated with training load (increased capillariazation, etc.).  Those adaptations take months and years.  This is year 6 for me at this and my muscular endurance is still lacking. 

Of course, this does not mean always go slow.  When its time to go hard your HR should redline.  This too, is "hard".  Most people dont like the feeling of a prolonged about threshold effort.  it hurts. 

On HR Zones:  HR is a tool.  that's it.  In my mind, there is easy, medium and hard.  That's it.  Yes, I know how to use HR, power, etc.  Rudy even showed me how to use gearing and speed as a proxy for power   BUT, at the end of the day as long as you are meeting the goal of your WO, whether you use RPE, HR or power doesnt matter that much.

On Tri and Non-Tri Spouses: My wife has no interest in any of this stuff either.  That's why we make tri friends.

Relax, you'll be fine!  have fun with it and the journey.

A couple of things:

1.  There are no "good" or "bad" heart rates.  Your TH and Max heart rates are what they are (kind of like your height you have no control over your HR).  Lots of things factor into what your HR is (e.g. gender, height, heart capacity).  To some extent your HR in certain zones may change as you get into better shape (normally when you first start --- that is first get off the couch you HR is on the high side, which is why you should retest every few months).  Generally, however, your heart rate zones do not change much.  I've worked with people of the same age an gender who have a aerobic endurance zone of 123-133 and 151-161.  That's just who they are. 

2.  Having said that your HR zones should not change much, what does happen is that your pace in a given zone gets faster.  When I first start training by HR my Z1 (aerobic endurance) run pace was a high 9, now its a low 8.  It takes time.  If you train consistently the pace will come down.  Generally there's a big jump down after about 8 weeks (2 blocks) of consistent HR training.

3.  There are no podiums at the end of a training session.  In reality you want to be fast a few days each year.  Training by HR, initially your training may feel (or be) slower, but its preparing you to go faster on race day.  Do you want to "win" at training or do you want to go as fast as possible on race day?

To me going with the Friel method there are way too many zones and numbers to worry about.  With regard to your Friel Z1 (Recovery) its fine to walk.  With regard to Friel Z2 (Extensive Endurance) you should be running, not walking.  You may need to slow down (a lot) but the motion should still be running.  It may take practice but slow running is possible.   I find its easiest to accomplish this on a flat surface rather than trying to deal with hills. 

Looking at your zones, they seem a bit on the high side (not saying they're wrong, they just look high).

I hope you all had a great weekend!!!!  My holiday gatherings were fantastic!  Now that Freddy is getting a little older, I'm really able to sit and talk with the adults (vs. coddling a screaming infant, breastfeeding, pacing the floor, etc...LOL).  I spent 3 hours putting together the 1600 piece Lego Millennium Falcon.  It's almost put together, and it's awesome. 

I got in a nice run this morning with some hill repeats.  I will probably use some free weights this afternoon, because I won't be able to get to the gym today. 

I'm heading to my parents' house tomorrow morning, where we'll be staying through New Year's.  I will be around today and tomorrow, but then I'll be gone until next week.  Date night tonight...sushi & movie.     

Cindy and I went to Fleet Feet yesterday for a shoe fitting.  I came home with Brooks Pure Connects and she got Brooks Adrenelines (sp?).  We now have a weekly running date on Saturdays. 

So I thought we had made it through the holiday w/o Cindy going crazy about her family, but yesterday we were sorting through Reagan's and Abby's presents and she lost it.  See her family would rather buy our kids 5 different $1 presents than a single $5 present.  About 5 minutes in to the sorting exercise she was yelling "Quality over quantity!".  Good times. 

Back at it today.  Bike time, running time and yoga time all on tap.  Really want to get ready to kill the Oly I have coming up right off the bat.  And it's weird when one of your friends tells you their goal this year is not to have me pass them on the run at every race we do.  Kind of flattering.  I blushed.

We'll see.  One pancake is officially in the system.  Crossing my fingers.

I thought they were high too, Kelly. Is there a better calculator than the LT one to see if my zones change? My ave HR was 182 for the last 20 minutes of my 5K so that is what I plugged in.

Yes, I did the same for the bike, last 20 min. average HR.

My average HR for the last 20 min. of the test I did, was 180.  Your zones are almost identical to mine.  As Kelly & Jeff-y said, everyone is different.  You can always do another test to be sure yours are correct, but if you were in a race, I'm sure it's probably correct.

The zones Kelly uses are different.  Her Z1 is not the same as our Z1.  You want to be doing most of your training in Z2.  Try that, and I bet you won't have to walk.  Slow down yes, but walk no (unless on hills).  And Bryan had a good post about zones, when I asked if I should walk when I passed over into Z3 on hills.  It's ok to go into Z3, or hover between the two, just not be in Z3 the whole time.  If that makes sense.  He said it so much better, and I don't have time right now to go back and find it to post.  But, try training in Z2 and see how that goes.

Thanks.  I think there is a learning curve to doing the TT tests because my results were much different than the first (and only) time I did it. 

I have been using jorges HR bike plan and I have really liked it.  It has me doing some Z3 and Z4 work, which I am not sure is good for building a base.  I am also trying to do the barryp 321 plan.  I am not sure if that is such a good idea but hopefully I will improve my base. 

I had to walk yesterday too.  I am starting over.  Building a base is about preparing the body for adaptions needed to train and race to potential.  Your lung capacity increases faster than what I call "muscular endurance" or kelly would call "durability", but really means the physiological adaptations associated with training load (increased capillariazation, etc.).  Those adaptations take months and years.  This is year 6 for me at this and my muscular endurance is still lacking. 

I come out with slightly different numbers. 

Essentially I get a 127-142 for your recovery zone, 143-153 for your aerobic/extensive endurance and 154-165 for your tempo / intensive endurance zone.  I don't use HR for "zones" aboe that -- at that point its RPE for "best sustainable effort" and "all out."

2 concerns:

1. Mixing plans can be dangerous.  You want to make sure your hard days are hard and your easy days are easy and that you're recovered enough on your hard days to actually be able to really work hard.  When you mix plans, things may not lay out correctly and you end up being in the muddy middle for all of your training.

2. For long course triathletes, the biggest limiter is not 5 minute or 20 minute power or 5K speed.  The biggest limiter is perepheral system failure.  Think about IM marathon -- many, many people who are capable of running a solid open marathon end up walking due to a peripheral system failure; meaning legs, versus a core system such as respiratory/cardiovascular. When you see people walking during the marathon, typically their peripheral system has failed so badly that they cannot stimulate their core effectively (i.e, although they cannot move any faster their heart rate remains much below their typical lowest training zone). Essentially you need to build durability through steady volume.   

You can compare an IM to a race such as the 5k where the limiter in such a race is typically respiratory/cardiovascular (core system) and is therefore best trained with higher intensity training or repeats that stimulate the core system.

Hmmm, I was thinking of swithing to the way you calculate zones.  It seems easier to have less zones.  But, looking at what you calculated above, and with my avg HR only 2 beats lower, I have basically the same zones right?  I'd be walking A LOT!  You're saying to mostly train in the aerobic/extensive endurance right?  Maybe I should stick with what I have calculated...