Gun Advocates, What Say You?? (Page 14)

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by mdg2003 So according to LB there are 400 million guns out there. Who has the other 200 million guns?

Probably an outdated recycled graphic from three months ago.

Here's a graph I just found with data up to 2013.  So I suspect we're well in excess of 400 Million on the impossible to verify guesstimates. Since the gun salesmen in chief went all gun grabber mode in late 2012/2013, I'm sure the graph went up considerably higher the past few years.

I was told yesterday that Monday......the day after President Obama gave his address on how safe he's made us.....was the single biggest day this year for background checks/gun sales.   Go figure.

I always find the irony in Obama and reducing guns in America.  There's no question he truly wants to reduce them, but every time he tries it blows up in his face in a bad way.  I personally wish he'd shut it because it makes it really hard to find ammo cheap.  lol

On the surface I would say it sounds like a good idea similar to not allowing mentally ill people to buy them.  However, when you start looking into who is on the no fly list or who qualifies as mentally ill the argument falls apart quickly.

Here's an article i saw a while back on the no fly list https://theintercept.com/2014/08/05/watch-commander/

In essence, there are several ways such as traveling to certain countries with a certain nationality or even being a controversial tweeter that can lead to you being on the list.  These things do not fall to the level of barring the purchase of a weapon to anyone so they shouldn't now.  I'm sure you can google cases of clerical errors that have put people on as well.  When you compare this to banning felons from purchasing guns, they have gone through an extensive legal process with representation and evidence before they lose their right.  When you compare that to simply being a muslim who travels to pakistan to visit the in-laws it's a lot different.

The other argument is that I don't personally feel it will stop anything even if we did ban everyone on the list.  If somebody is willing to shoot up a mall and commit multiple felonies, they're obviously not going to have a problem breaking the law buying a gun.

Has this been a problem?  Are murders and attacks being carried out by people on the no-fly list who have bought guns legally?  Is this something we now need to stop in order to save lives?

I know where you are coming from, jmk, but this is just another ridiculous, bullchit, idea for a law to make some politician appear that he is hard on guns while actually accomplishing nothing.

Nah.

Read the second amendment, buying and owning guns is NOT guaranteed in our constitution. 

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

I don't see these militias that everyone belongs to. 

There are two distinct messages in the text you just posted.  
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state".  This is simply defining why it is necessary.  Well regulated in the 1700's means that it is in good working order.  So it is important for the people to have good working firearms for the security of the free state.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed:  This is the second statement which is the most important.  The people have the right to bear arms and it shall not be infringed.  So how exactly does this not say quite clearly that I cannot buy and own a gun?

One of my favorite 2nd amendment pictures.  lol

This article from the ACLU explains the problems with the no fly list - no due process: Court Rule No Fly List Unconstitutional 

Just as it would be unconstitutional to ban those on the no fly list from using the internet, email, social media, or speaking at rallies (all means used to promote terrorism), banning gun sales to people placed on the no fly list is equally wrong.  No one, except for terrorists, has a problem with banning guns from being sold to terrorists.  Everyone should have a problem with using the flawed no fly list as a means to identify those whose rights should be taken away. 

ETA:  The briefing paper linked at the end of the article is a good read as well.

Yeah......my worry is, "hey, that guy wants a gun, put him on the no fly list".  Next they'll put you on the no-fly list BECAUSE you won guns and want to buy some more.  Buying guns doesn't make you a terrorist.  

I'm pretty damn certain that if you are a suspected  by the FBI to be a terrorist then you can't walk in and buy a gun.....and if you CAN, then what does that say about our "federal background checks".  See......that's the deal for me.  There are already enough laws and avenues on the books to control morons getting/owning/keeping/using guns......but the problem is, the systems for using those controls are dysfunctional.  Fix that!!  How about we not let people out on pre-trial release, or probation, who have robbed someone, shot someone, or used a gun in an unlawful manner.  How damn hard is THAT? 

I live this every day!!  This ^^^^  is absolute TRUTH!

Because it's REALLY dumb to spend money on a study that everybody knows the answer to.......the cause of gun violence is.......

~drum roll please~

People point guns at other people and pull the trigger.

Now here's where it gets crazy......someone lets those people out of jail to do it again and again.  How about we commission a study to find the dumbarses responsible for THAT. (my money says it's primarily liberal judges who think we need more gun control)