Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 15)

Here's the link to the heart rate thread by Mike Ricci.

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=25733&start=1

Brandon,

Are you swimming with a wetsuit?  I'm in Texas and the water is still a little cold unless you have a wetsuit.  I have long sleeves and yesterday I was hot while swimming.  I think that means I'm going faster.

As to first mile on the bike.  I think it depends on whether you are warmed up, whether you are going into a strong headwind or have a strong tailwind, whether or not you are going uphill or downhill, etc.

Theoretically you should get faster after you are warmed up.  Are you planning to log your workouts on BT?  Ernesto does a great job of keeping us all straight but he has to have data.

I used to live in Tampa St Pete and I really miss FL.  I'm actually on some lists to return to civil service at either Eglin or MacDill. 

When is your next event?

Jackie i will tri to post work out data soon. the 10 min mile was first run mile after comming off bike, yesterday got it down to about 9 min Getting alittle better!! No not swimming with a wet suit but i will need to invest before fall. I live in Gulf breeze not to far from eglin  i out there all the time for work. hope you make it here , this is a great area to live. Next event is at summers end on Pensacola beach

Driving to The Woodlands tomorrow in the morning, tomorrow is the last day to pick up the racing packet and stuff. Friday is the day to drop off the bike and the bags for T1 and T2. I'm getting all antsy now

I'm all packed and ready and I had to take the bike to the shop on Saturday because my front derailleur got stuck in the big ring, turns out that the cable housing were corroded from the moisture. Thank God it happened Saturday and not race day. They also ran a little checklist and washed her.

She's looking gorgeous with the race wheels, and she's wanting to go long and fast! Me on the other hand, I'm ready to open up a BIG can of... patience, discipline and determination.

One of my mantras to keep myself going when it gets hairy is you guys, you inspire me with all your cheering and good wishes. I will try and finish this race for you and my family, maybe I'll be lucky enough to break twelve hours. A finish though is more than desirable regardless of time, Ironman is tough and relentless, but I'm a hard S.O.B. too!

Ernesto,

Busy day on Saturday for me, (oldest daughter getting confirmed), but I'll be checking in on you and rooting for you.  

Been following your training recommendations.  Took Sunday off, Swam on Monday, Run Intervals yesterday, Bike intervals today.  You are correct that keeping a 90 cadence is tough.  I think my run cadence is actually a little higher.  My brain seems to "want" my cadence to be higher. (My legs disagree). But they are all up on my training log.  Comments welcome.

double post. sorry.

Hey everyone.  I put on my big girl panties and rode my first bike TT of 12.4 mi.  Well, last week I rode the course for practice.  Keep in mind, this is the TT for the Texas A&M Cycling Team and Triathlon Team.  I was really nervous, which is not normal for me.  So nervous that I put my Garmin on run instead of bike.  I got to go first since I am the slowest.  For 2 glorious miles, I was the leader.  It was awesome!

I set a new PR pace for me at 13.99 (BT) or 14 (garmin connect) MPH.  Getting to 14 seemed to be a big hurdle for me.  That was after a crappy tempo run last night that I cut short because I wasn't feeling well.

The journey of a thousand (or is it 140.6) miles begins with the first step.

Jackie

Great news about the cadence (the fact that you kept the numbers high). It will take a while for those neuro muscular connections to be made, but this will be paying great dividends by the end of the season. There's good execution in your bike workout, you just need time.

My mom always told me that to make bread you can have all the ingredients: flour, yeast, water, butter, heat, etc. but the one element that makes for a good dough is TIME. You're doing the right things, but results are not going to be instantaneous. I have a really nice workout for you to start your Sunday bike with (about an hour long). I'll go into more detail tomorrow. I'm going to bed now.

Ernesto,

That's great that your bike broke before you left town.  I am so excited and my classes have actually gotten excited as I talk about what you and Mark and Joan are doing and have done.  I've been watching the weather forecast and I think it might only be in the high 80s on Saturday instead of the low 90s.

Today they had an article in the paper about a local minister, Grady Chism doing Texas IM.  The funny part is I actually met him at the pool one day.  He never said anything about doing any IMs at all and I think this is his 3rd or 4th.  So now I know two of you that will be there.

Two quick questions:

1) What flavor of Perpetuem do you use (Caffe Latte with caffeine or Orange Vanilla without)

2) You mentioned I need to ramp up mileage.  Is that adding miles to each workout or adding more workouts to the week?

Ernesto,

Yeah, good news about the bike, but really... do you need the small ring? (just kidding) We are getting anxious to see you finish as well and, no pressure, break the 12 hr barrier!! But really, it's a long day and so many things can happen, I just hope all the good things happen to you on that day - perfect weather, no mechanical issues, great form, everything. Will be following as you go and trying to re-live the experience! All the best!!!

Great job on the time trial Jackie! Congratulations!

When I first got back into cycling it was through mountain biking.  My bro-in-law convinced me to join him on some local hilly trails.  Halfway through my rear derailleur failed leaving me a choice of two gears in the back, then my front failed leaving me in the big ring.  Miserable way to finish but got lots of props for hammering it out. 

I honestly don't use the small ring that much on my road bike - but I also live in Michigan and we don't really have hills like some of you do.

Thanks for the link, boy that's a lot to take in.  At first I though it was contradicting Ernesto's recommendation of using the Maffetone HR table, but now I'm guessing that Maffetone is for starting out while building the aerobic base.  Is that right, or are we talking about two competing methods for using HR in training?  At what point should I try the LT and switch over to the other method that's recommended in this thread?

I did my run yesterday keeping my HR under 137, and clearly building a base is going to take some time.  I think I will add a 4th run to the week so I can do 3 with the HR shuffle (at my pace, you can't really call it a 'run'), and 1 tempo run.  I just don't want to give up going fast and hard, especially with a race coming up.  I will keep reading the book, but that's my plan for now.  I welcome opinions to the contrary if anyone thinks what I plan is counter-productive.

Jackie, way to go on your ride!  I like hearing about others' progress.  Can you tell me what 'PR' is?  I needed a glossary for that thread, but I figured out what most of the terms were, eventually.  I never did see anything on PR, though.

I wish I could see Ernesto race.  The course looks beautiful, though the weather here may not cooperate.

One last question for anyone with knowledge, assuming (hoping) Ernesto is concentrating on the race and not looking here.  He's recommended 90rpm on the bike, which I can do on a stationary bike.  I'm wondering how that fits with keeping the HR aerobic.  On my long ride, should I strive for 90 rpm or should I keep my HR under max?  I guess it's an academic question, as I don't have a cadence monitor yet.  Still, I'm curious.

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

I'm pretty new, but I'm a KISS (Keep It Simple Sweetie) person.  I like Ernesto because he can take a whole bunch of info and summarize it in one or two sentences.  I haven't heard him talk about lactate threshold at all and I didn't see it in the Maffetone book.  I just provided the link because someone asked for it.  Right now I'm sold out on Maffetone and don't want to switch horses in mid-stream.  It did mean that I backed off of my original racing schedule.

PR is personal record or Puerto Rico.

I had the same issue on the bike.  Ernesto told me to just keep my cadence high.  I can usually hold 89-93 average even on a course with a few hills.  You could just ride a nice long flat course or one with nothing but downhills and that would work too.

As I understand it, the whole idea behind MAF training is to teach your body to go longer distances at the same heart rate or go the same distance at a lower heart rate.  I have notice that it's easier to recover when training that way.  You make sure not to go too fast when you're supposed to be going slow and not to go too slow when you are supposed to be going fast.  There is a lot of good information on Maffetone's site, including a forum with questions.  It does take a lot of patience, but I am seeing the results and I am pleased with the program.  Also, it seems like a good way to avoid injuries and illnesses and I'm all for that.

Also, I think it depends on your goals.  Do you someday want to do an Ironman?  In that case, it seems that it is critical to build an extremely big base.  Do you just want to do sprints?  Probably can gut those out without a big base.

Just my two cents. 

Jackie- Way to go!!!!!  THat is awesome!

Ernesto-  I am taking this week off to see what my next step will be and to get the "Big Book" read.  

  I wanted to wish you all the luck, I will be cheering for you!  I will catch up with several questions after this weekend has past and figure out to to train correctly this time around.  I know you have a million things on your plate right now.  

Best of luck!

Way to go me! (sarcasm)

I was on vacation last few days (Cancun, Mexico) and to offset the nom-nom-nom intake, I decided to crank on workout. Being on a beautiful beach with sunny weather, it translated into 5mi/day barefoot jogs, on wet sand+ankle deep water.

Ignoring all the good advice, I managed to get some stress injury on my ankles (part above heel, behind ankle hurts while walking). Didn't ruin the vacation though but I'll take it easy on running next few days. And I was worried about disrupting the workout routine due to vacation...

I wasn't really keeping HR or time due to uneven beach surface (it was sloped), bits of shells etc but it was pretty slow. But calves still got worked HARD on the barefoot, sand/water running.

Just curious, for those who run on beaches (or did in past), how does it equate against asphalt/concrete?

Mike - my four cents...

1st - I haven't read Maffetone.  The reason I asked for the link to the HR discussion here at BT is that I think it has a wealth of info on HR training.  I don't think that it is in contradiction at all with my basic understanding of Maffetone which is train at lower intensities to build a base, to stay healthy, and to race fast.  The only issue I had is with the formulaic approach to determining your optimum HR for training based off of your age.  I think it is accepted that 220 minus your age is a crappy way to determine you max hr.  For me that would mean my max is 180.  I can guarantee it closer to 200 than 180.  Along the same lines - 180 minus your age seems equally crappy in determining your best aerobic pace.  The LT threshold test allows you to get much closer to understanding your optimum training level.  Below is a link to a thread here at BT discussing Maffetone and HR zones. 

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=60404&posts=15

I think if you can do a 30' min field test then your training can be much more tailored to your current fitness.  Lots of running in zone 1 (Recovery) and zone 2 (Extensive Endurance) is what I see recommended for building your base. 

The following link gives some good background on Maffetone Training:

http://chrisultra.blogspot.com/2008/07/maffetone-heart-rate-training.html

I think I am in complete agreement with Maffetone on the concept - I just feel its better to ensure that your training zones are built off of something more than your age which I think is very arbitrary.  You can decide what works best for you - in the end I imagine you will get to a similar destination with either path.

Regarding Cadence on the bike.  My bike computer has a cadence capability and I ride with Speed and Cadence as my two views.  I consistently try to keep my cadence right around 90.  Everything I have read says that is the efficient cadence.  I adjust my gearing to maintain the that cadence when riding.

Jackie, so awesome to see you have a long term goal and start with the first step! You have guts to think big and are not afraid to do what it takes. And it looks like you enjoy the journey too!

Regardless of what the book says, I have tried his methods on MYSELF with incredible results. I have recommended the book to many, and I don't know ONE person that doesn't swear by it after trying it out.

Lactate threshold testing is expensive and disregards many aspects such as your overall health (just a detail). Maffetone addresses fitness and your body as a whole (Training, stress and nutrition) which I believe is key to success. Also, his focus on recovery as part of training is what makes his athletes so fit with such little work.

As an example, ALL the athletes with Mark Allen Online Team (coached by Luis Vargas) train under the Maffetone method. All fifteen of them that participated in Puerto Rico's 70.3 nine weeks ago placed top ten in their AG's (some actually won).

Also, zone 1 and zone 2 training is NOT what I do nor recommend, it is too little work. On the other hand, MAF (maximum aerobic force) pushes your body to grow without tapping into your anaerobic threshold. Just like Jackie says, it allows for fast recovery and fast (relative) gains.

BTW, my wife will be posting messages on my facebook wall (for those of you that have befriended me) with race related things such as weather, how crappy I look, etc The splits from www.ironman.com are good but they don't tell the whole tale. My bib number is 1513 and the action will begin 7AM CST on Saturday.

I wish to have the guts you did while you raced Port MacQuarie. That was A performance. Like I said, I will try to break twelve but a finish will leave me SUPER happy, no matter what time. You what they call a person that crosses the line at 16:59:59? They call them Ironman!