Asphalt Junkies CLOSED AND GETTING OUR FIX (Page 15)

my swim sux...barely getting across the pool at 25 yards...I'm taking lessons but it has been to cold to get in the water this week.  So should I do the 3X swim, 2X bike and 5 times run (4 being short and 1 long)? 

My last long run was 7.8 miles.  I have a 1/2 marathon planned for october, so I have to get the miileage up for that too.

Biking, I trashed my legs today... rode hills hard, pushed it...seated and standing.  Legs feel like jello right now.

Paul I agree with Dirk that 6:53 is pretty impressive. I could not run that fast even if I had slab of meat hanging off my back with a pack of wolves chasing me. Nice work. 

Recovery drinks?  What do ya'll take?  I take a protein shake and amino acid immediately after the w/o.  I generally mix a little honey in w/ it for a quick carb fix to carry to the protein to the muscles.  As much as we are working out, we need to hve our muscles quickly refueled.

I have no association w/ this company I am merely stating names because it may be helpful to others.

I take Dymatize Iso-100 protein because it is low in cholesterol and sodium immediately after my w/o.  Before bed I take Dymatize Casein protein for my muscles to recover at night.

I mention the names, I'm not advertising but since I turned 50, my cholesterol decided it wanted to increase.  My blood pressure was also higher due to sodium, once I lowered my sodium it came down.  I had to throw away a lot of protein and pre-w/o supps because of the cholesterol and sodium.

This particular brand is low in both cholesterol and sodium.  Now some of their products are high in both sodium and cholesterol so check the labels.

Both of the ones mentioned tastes good an mixes well.  Also they are excellent put in a blender w/ silken tofu, bananas or strawberries or blueberries and ice.

Hope this helps!

I agree as long as your time allows you complete the additional committments.  If you can pull off 3x a week in each discipline it will help you in the long run.  But Jonathon has some well advised input as well.  Adding running time to your schedule should be done with caution.  But depending on your swimming ability, it may be advised to make sure you get all 3 swims.

I also took a look at your logs and I have a couple of things to mention.  You may want to begin to spread your running out rather than getting a lot of running back to back days.  It is certainly okay to run back to back based on your fitness and ability but some of your runs are long and close together.  Just be careful to spread things out.

(Short post because I was on a conf. call and it was getting kind of sow and totally uninteresting.)

I think you should try to do your best to add some runs, if you can fit it into your life week in and week out.  You are running a fair amount now, ~2 hours a week, so don't go much above that to start, but spread it out.  Maybe try adding a short, easy run after two bikes to save prep time.  I usually don't advocate lots of bricks, but I'm starting to think it's a good way to add some running miles without adding all the time required to get ready, which is a time sink we often don't consider.  But remember that in a tri, the bike really sets up the run.  The 10k of an Olympic tri is more like a HM pace run, so I’d suggest just easy running for now.  You’ll have plenty of intensity on the bike so don’t overtax your body’s recovery ability especially as it heats up.

In terms of getting ready in 20 weeks, 20 weeks is quite a while to get your swim in order.  Keep working on the technique and as you say you’ll have more time in a few weeks once the water warms up.  I highly suggest finding a good coach/teacher and taking a few lessons, or at least get someone who knows swimming watch and hopefully video and help you out.  If you get a video, post on here if you want and we’ll help out.  (The “global” we – I’m not much of a swim coach!).

I don't know how to correctly explain it in physiological terms, but what happens is that with a given running pace the muscle cells will be doing that work using less oxygen.  I am pretty sure it has to do with the density of the mitochondria in the cell, but that's as far as I can go.

Lactic acid is a byproduct in the krebs cycle which is the process by which muscles use energy and replenish it on the fly through glycolysis (sp?).  It's chemical reactions that are pretty much deterministic.  So the amount of O2 being used by the cells tells you how much glycogen is being used which tells you how much lactate is being produced. 

So when I say they are doing the same work with less oxygen, that means it's also with less glycogen and also produces less lactic acid.  Which would also mean they could do MORE work using some similar amount of oxygen/glycogen as they were before.

I was just pondering this exact topic this morning.  I realize that you need to focus on the swimming to simply get to the point of confidently finishing that leg of the race.  Your time in the pool at this point in your triathlon development should consist of slow, RELAXED, efficient swimming with the goal of extending the distance of each swim until you are easily finishing 1500 non-stop.

Those 'workouts' will take time in your training program, but won't need to be difficult. 

But if you can still spare enough time to run 5 days per week you will reap the most rewards, IMO.

Running seems to be unique among the 3 disciplines in that for a given amount of time it seems to reap the greatest cardiovascular rewards....rewards that carry over to the other 2 sports too.  I will go out on a limb and say that most triathletes will be faster if they put half or maybe more of their training time in to running.

So if you have the time in your calendar to allow you to follow that 20 week swim focus plan PLUS put in the additional runs you will be very happy with the results.

Karl’s post makes me think of saying something I’ve been meaning to add.  There’s a lot of activity on here and it’s hard to keep up, so if you don’t get any feedback on your question please feel free re-post or remind everyone.  Then if we ignore you again it really means we're actively ignoring you!

Nice mile time, especially if you were feeling sluggish.  Definitely post your improved time in a month.

And before we beginners head to the track for a timed mile to test against Paul, he's a long time runner with a lot of miles in those legs.  Once you've logged his number of miles, feel free to do more speed work!

Do it!  it's cheap and if nothing else it lets you compare your current fitness to years prior.

Perfect!  I can tell you are a gym rat.

Triathletes recovery 'fuel' (solid or liquid form) doesn't need quite as much protein and needs more carbs than a weight lifter would typically use.  Adding a shot of honey is great and I'm glad you understand how protein is transported to the muscles.

There are an endless number of ways to get the nutrition needed to support recovery.  Your approach is GREAT!  But also good are more simple methods.  The idea is to get a small amount of protein to provide the necessary amino acids for cellular repair and the carbohydrates needed to replenish glycogen stores.

To that end even something as simple as chocolate milk works great.

This brings up a point which I'd like to throw out there.  I know that most plans have the swimming be short intervals with short rests between, which is what I know "real" swimmers typically do.  However, I find myself doing relatively longer intervals, and almost always in open water, which I think helps me in a few ways during tris:

1. I get almost no anxiety during the swim because most of my swimming has been done in lakes or the ocean so I don't have the adjustment of losing the black line.

2. I don't usually pace poorly since I've been swimming 500-1000 yard intervals, so at the end of the swim I am not overtaxed at all.

3. I have confidence that the distance is no big deal since I've done it a few times during training.

Though I don't embarrass myself in the water, I am by no means an accomplished swimmer so I'd appreciate hearing comments from the better swimmers on here.  Because my run is such a huge limiter in relation to the bike and swim, I really believe my time/effort is better spent running anyway (even though I actually love swimming).

David.  The Wednesday run can be a little harder if you'd like.  The only concern at this point is NOT developing a running injury.  As long as the legs feel good, keep doing your Wednesday run like this.  We call that a 'tempo' run.  (Well, depending on your effort level it could be a 'threshold' run).

But you will be a better runner this summer if your general approach to your run training is to run more often and more total miles.  If and when you begin to max out your 'Dirk Units'  (your training stress is reaching it's safety limit) then and only then do you need to consider removing this intense running from your schedule in favor of more distance.

You know you are nearing your training stress limit by virtue of experience and by the early warning signs of injury such as pain in the legs in areas that are not muscles.

I see a general increase in running over the last month and think that's great.  Keeping the speed easy enough that when you stop you feel almost guilty for not being too tired will enable you to add ever increasing amounts of running and is the quickest path to improvement.

You are currently improving well though!

I certainly wont chime in as an expert but I did the same thing last summer smimming mostly in OW due to convinence. From a confidence stand point and the ability to deal with waves and varrying conditions I think it helped quite a bit. From a speed stand point I cant say that OW  or pool swimming would give the most improvement.. My thinking is that the pool would give better results because its easier to time and push harder. That said I think most "swim disasters" stem from panic of being in the open water, swallowing a mouth full of water or getting kicked. I was never kicked in my OW swim training but I felt much more at ease in the water. I guess it depends on what you want to get out of it. My intent was always to "survive the swim" which I did quite nicely in my first ever triathlon which included a 2000m swim.

No big deal.  You will get the swimming.  How many lessons have you taken so far?  Make sure your swim coach is making you do drills.  As lots and lots of questions.  Running more often will most certainly boost your cardio and thus enable you to swim without being out of breath quite as often. 

For the running...let's say you are up to 3.5 miles for a long run.  I would do 3 x 1.5 miles, 1 x 2.5 miles and 1 x 3.5 miles for your runs.  All at easy pace. Make sure that the 2.5 mile and 3.5 mile runs are separated by at least one day of 1.5 mile runs...or a rest day.

X2...do it.

Are you familiar with the 0-1650 swim plan?  It worked for me in the past when I was learning how to swim for distance.  Now that I have the distance, I'm working on drills with a coach to improve my form.

I'm also a graduate of the 0-1650 plan. Worked great for me and actually improved my pace pretty significantly over what I was doing last year by making me more comfortable in the water.

John

Well, I was giving this cold until today to make a decision about doing the oly tri on Saturday.  It's not going to happen.  All of the crap has moved down into my chest.  I had pneumonia last spring and this was one of things that happened just prior to getting so sick.  I started taking some of my leftover pneumonia medicine in hopes of avoiding it.  I will be laying low for the next few days.  I'm really bummed. 

Do any of you California peeps know about the Tri for Real Oly at Rancho Seco Park near Sacramento?  It's at the beginning of June.  I might be able to swing that one.

My next scheduled race is a half marathon the first weekend in May.  I'll be going for a PR.  That won't be a problem.  I'd like to do between 1:45 and 1:50 at that race.  At a recent 10 mile race, I finished in 1:21.  Do you guys think my goal is possible?

Sorry about the cold...  I think U R making the right decision.

yes U can PR in the 1/2... we all have confidence in U and are pulling for U!!!  Just get well in the meantime!

Tracy sorry to hear about you missing the the oly tri this weekend. Feel better and get your rest so you can get back healthy and start focusing on that half marathon you want to PR. It sounds like you should be able to do that based on your recent time for that 10 mile race.

Sorry about the tri.  Pneumonia is no joke, so better to be safe if it's below the neck now.

In terms of the half, if you are back to the same fitness you were when you ran that half, a sub 1:50 shouldn't be a problem.  A 1:21 10 miler translates to a 1:48:10 per the Attack Point race equivalent numbers, which are usually pretty close if properly trained for the race distance.

That last statement can be a big "if" and the prediction can be terrible if the comparative distances are way different (say a 5k vs. a marathon), but since 10 miles and 13.1 aren't that far apart I'd say that type of time should be do-able.

Sorry to hear you'll need to drop this weekend's race. Get some rest and keep up on those vitamins.

The TBF crew that runs the Tri for Real is great. The race I'm doing this weekend is put on by them at Folsom lake. 

I spectated at an Olympic last year at Rancho Seco in June and then my whole family volunteered at a super sprint the next day both seemed pretty well organized with lots of volunteers. They didn't use chip timing though. Then I did my super sprint at Rancho Seco last September and had blast .

My wife and I will be racing the Tri for Fun (sprint) that same first weekend in June.

The Olympic I'm planning on doing for this year is the Tri for Real at Rancho Seco, but in July.

No chip timing?  Well, that's a bummer.  Thanks for the info.