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2014-06-05 8:22 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by triguy1043

Sorry I have been away

This weekend Super Sprint went well for me

I went 1:00:34 Losing to my best buddy by 14 seconds so I took 2nd OA

Splits were

250 Pool Swim 3:41
12 mile bike 33.26 - 20.6 MPH on a course with lots of elevation http://connect.garmin.com/activity/510746137
3 mile run sloppy cross country run all on grass 21:49

Overall very happy with the results considering I have not raced since 2012 and I went 58:?? on the same course while getting ready fro IM.

My question is in 2012 I was swimming 10,000 yards a week and swam the same 250 pool swim in 3:20 with NO SWIMMING AT ALL since the end of 2012 I was only 20 secs. slower. I was a 1:04 IM swimmer in 2012 as well.

It sort of shows me that even though I do get faster when I swim all the time the rate of investment seems DIM.

I just built a tether for my home pool so I plan on getting at least 3 - 30 mins swims in a week for the rest of the summer before my 70.3 in late Aug


I am very impressed. Nice racing and great result.

The return on swimming investment might be dim but the 21 seconds lost between 2012 and this year would have put you at the top of the podium........

Interesting comment about the swim and the similarity in your times given the dramatic difference in swim training. I believe that even the most ardent swimmer will agree that time gains in swimming are very hard to come by. I suspect that I could give up biking and running altogether, spend my 10-12 hours per week swimming only, and see only marginal gains in swim pace. Certainly at the expense of run and bike speed.

However, the other side of the coin is the swim fitness that allows you to get to the bike without being gassed so you can put down the hammer as soon as you are on the bike. When I started triathlon racing, just getting out of the water was a major accomplishment for me. I can tell you that it was probably 10 minutes in to the bike before I really was able to get to the work of pedaling hard. With all of my swimming over the last couple years, I have seen a depressingly small gain in swim pace but I am coming out of the water feeling good and ready to get started on the part of the race where I can make up time. It makes a big difference to me.

The struggle is finding that point where you are swim training enough to maintain swim fitness and form but not overdoing it so you can maximize the bike and run training where more time can be made up.

The last part of this commentary is that you are a better swimmer than the average triathlete. You likely have good form so your lack of swimming doesn't hurt you as much as it does someone like me who relies so much on their conditioning to make up for my glaring technique flaws. 3:20 for 250 yards and 1:04 for an IM swim are very respectable triathlete swim times (swimmers would laugh at those times but I'd like to see them bike and run after )


Jason thanks for the feedback!!

My drop in swim training right now is sole due to time and family!!
3 little ones at home it tough to get to the pool

Now my outdoor pool in now open so I will be swimming 3-4 times per week on tether.

But knowing I have a 70.3 on Aug. 31 I better get my butt in the pool or lake.


2014-06-05 9:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
I am pretty impressed with maintaining that kind of heart rate. You are seeing significantly higher heart rates than I would be comfortable with for every day running sessions.

For most of my runs, when I look back at the data, my heart rate is in the low 140s to mid 150s. When I get to tempo work it will be high 150s to low 160s. Interval sessions it can be in the high 160s and maybe even touch 170. Last 5k I did it averaged 178 for the race but I was in extremis, at the pointy edge of failure for the entire three miles. 172ish for the 10k last weekend which was significantly more comfortable than the 178 for the 5k was.

ETA--those heart rates would be stout for a 30 year old but at 54, you are really pushing the pace...... I think.

I had to look back to see how old you were to be sure that I wasn't giving hear rate advice to a 25 year old

Edited by wannabefaster 2014-06-05 10:04 AM
2014-06-05 10:52 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

I think we have some folks racing this weekend.....chime in and let us know. 

2014-06-05 11:40 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Only ride my bike for 30ish minutes, but am heading to the pool in a bit for a swim.

Had my annual physical this morning, so that eliminated any plans of working out when it was still relatively cool.

Took an allen wrench with me and made some adjustments to my saddle. I'm SO STINKING CLOSE to finding the perfect position. Before Frieda went into the shop, I was getting some chafing in the leg crease area, something I understand is pretty typical with new Adamo users. I e-mailed ISM (probably even got an e-mail back from the same guy Randee is chatting with!!) and followed their suggestions. It definitely made a positive difference, but I'll keep tinkering with it this week. It's hard to make yourself ride that far forward in the saddle when you've been jamming your butt in the back of one for the past year.
2014-06-05 11:50 AM
in reply to: glfprncs

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Hope everyone has a great weekend.  We're headed to our Lake house at noon today.

Was able to get in my first 30' run after a solid three months off which makes me pretty happy.  Even pace was respectable for the comeback kid!  Looking to get some rides and some OWS in while away!

Race like the wind people!

2014-06-05 12:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Suzy--congratulations on the run. Have fun at the lake house. I'm jealous. We are headed to ours next weekend.

I signed up for a sprint on Sunday, very last minute. 0.5 mile swim, 14 miles on the bike, 5 miles of beastly trail run. Should be fun. Second week in a row I get to race instead of doing my scheduled Sunday workout.

Edited by wannabefaster 2014-06-05 12:13 PM


2014-06-05 12:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Originally posted by glfprncs

Only ride my bike for 30ish minutes, but am heading to the pool in a bit for a swim.

Had my annual physical this morning, so that eliminated any plans of working out when it was still relatively cool.

Took an allen wrench with me and made some adjustments to my saddle. I'm SO STINKING CLOSE to finding the perfect position. Before Frieda went into the shop, I was getting some chafing in the leg crease area, something I understand is pretty typical with new Adamo users. I e-mailed ISM (probably even got an e-mail back from the same guy Randee is chatting with!!) and followed their suggestions. It definitely made a positive difference, but I'll keep tinkering with it this week. It's hard to make yourself ride that far forward in the saddle when you've been jamming your butt in the back of one for the past year.


I picked up 2 more so this weekend I have 3 adamos and 1 Cobb to try. I'm so excited!

I have the road, the prologue and the breakaway. If I don't find one I'm just gonna take the seat off and ride without one. That'll make me go faster, right?

YAY SUZY!!! Have a good weekend!

Edited by mtnbikerchk 2014-06-05 12:35 PM
2014-06-05 1:11 PM
in reply to: mtnbikerchk

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
No racing here this weekend hopefully kicking off a great 12 week block of training for my upcoming 70.3

I currently Ride a Cobb V-Flow and love it!!
2014-06-05 2:06 PM
in reply to: SSMinnow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Originally posted by SSMinnow

Hope everyone has a great weekend.  We're headed to our Lake house at noon today.

Was able to get in my first 30' run after a solid three months off which makes me pretty happy.  Even pace was respectable for the comeback kid!  Looking to get some rides and some OWS in while away!

Race like the wind people!

That is excellent news. How did the knee feel?

2014-06-05 8:31 PM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Congrats on the run suzy! Have fun at the lake house.

I have been playing around with the seat on my bike for what seems like an eternity feels pretty good lately, I want to buy a new bike at the end of the season or before next summer.

I have a sprint distance race this weekend super excited!

Good luck to everyone else racing this weekend!
2014-06-05 9:08 PM
in reply to: AkABuzz

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Steve, Are you doing the Grizzlyman/Ann Arbor Triathlon? If yes, so am I. See you there?



2014-06-05 9:44 PM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Hey all just a quick check in made it to Boise today cool town. Bib # is 528 and the race starts at 12:00 PM mountain time looking forward to it.
2014-06-06 5:51 AM
in reply to: mrajki

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Originally posted by mrajki Hey all just a quick check in made it to Boise today cool town. Bib # is 528 and the race starts at 12:00 PM mountain time looking forward to it.

Have a great race Mike!

2014-06-06 5:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Originally posted by wannabefaster

Steve, Are you doing the Grizzlyman/Ann Arbor Triathlon? If yes, so am I. See you there?





No Jason, I am doing the Big Fish in Ortonville, I thought about doing the Grizzlyman now I wish I would it would have been nice to meet you.

Have a great race Mike and Jason!

Edited by AkABuzz 2014-06-06 6:08 AM
2014-06-06 6:13 AM
in reply to: slornow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Originally posted by slornow

Originally posted by SSMinnow

Hope everyone has a great weekend.  We're headed to our Lake house at noon today.

Was able to get in my first 30' run after a solid three months off which makes me pretty happy.  Even pace was respectable for the comeback kid!  Looking to get some rides and some OWS in while away!

Race like the wind people!

That is excellent news. How did the knee feel?

Knee was fine during and afterwards.  Every once in a while, I would feel a little something, but it wasn't pain.  Must be adjusting to the fact I have a little less cushioning (?) and haven't run in over three months.  Pretty pleased, but not doing anything silly like run 10m!  Still haven't done a double bike/run or any type of brick work either which I'm itching to do, but won't quite yet  One day at a time.

I think saddles are so individual.  I had a lot of problems a few years ago and tested 6 before settling on the SMP Lite 109 which I absolutely love.  Looking at it you would think it was made for a guy (cut out), but it is so comfortable for a girl.

2014-06-06 6:45 AM
in reply to: SSMinnow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
I have had a fairly good week of workouts so far. Specifically, my bike training is going well.

The big difference seems to be that I have finally (FINALLY!) accepted that it is going to be uncomfortable when I push the intervals on the bike. Instead of shying away, easing up, or stopping altogether, I have been trying to embrace the discomfort and keep going. I seem to be able to do that relatively easily on the run but on the bike it is a whole different story. The result has been that my improvements on the bike have lagged behind the other two sports. Hopefully I can remedy that with a change in mindset.

I really like that on the bike or run, increased effort results in increased output. If you push harder on the bike you will go faster. If you push harder on the run you will go faster. If you push harder on the swim, you may very well go slower if you can't maintain form at the harder effort level. Terry Laughlin of Total Immersion fame once commented about this, (and this is paraphrasing from memory so don't kill me on this one) that 10% more effort on the swim might make you faster or might not. 10% more effort on the bike will usually translate to 3-5% increase in pace. 10% more effort on the run will result in very close to 10% increase in pace.

I have always used the above excuse to go a little easier on the swim (and maybe the bike too) to save some of that 10% for the run.

The other interesting comment about swimming and pace comes from my Triple-T experience. My fastest swim of the weekend (on a per 100 scale) came from the longest swim. The woman I use as a coach thinks that this is because I went out easier and relaxed and held form instead of going out like a house on fire and having everything fall apart. (I truly think that the pace for the 1.2 mile swim looks so good because the swim was short but if my swim coach wants to give me credit for something, who am I to argue with her?)


2014-06-06 6:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
I'm racing this weekend It's a sprint in Oak Island, NC. I'm really excited... This is my A race of the year, and with baby coming soon etc. this might be my last Tri of the year... But hopefully not
2014-06-06 7:15 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Originally posted by wannabefaster I am pretty impressed with maintaining that kind of heart rate. You are seeing significantly higher heart rates than I would be comfortable with for every day running sessions. For most of my runs, when I look back at the data, my heart rate is in the low 140s to mid 150s. When I get to tempo work it will be high 150s to low 160s. Interval sessions it can be in the high 160s and maybe even touch 170. Last 5k I did it averaged 178 for the race but I was in extremis, at the pointy edge of failure for the entire three miles. 172ish for the 10k last weekend which was significantly more comfortable than the 178 for the 5k was. ETA--those heart rates would be stout for a 30 year old but at 54, you are really pushing the pace...... I think. I had to look back to see how old you were to be sure that I wasn't giving hear rate advice to a 25 year old

I've always run in the mid 160's, and I didn't even start running until I was 38.   I get your point though, and I'm working hard to better train with a bit lower HR.   I can remember back a couple years ago, when I was in good running shape (2010-2011) I'd hang around  150/155 went running at a 10 minute pace.  But in those days my typical run was in the 8:45-9:00 range.   8:30 would redline me in the mid 170's.

This morning I worked EXTREMELY hard to hold HR at about 155 or so.   Made my pace really slow, but I forced myself not to worry much about pace (It's hard though because I so want to run "fast" again -- as in 9 minute range for typical workout).  HR stayed well below 160 until about mile 1.7.   Then had a short semi-steep climb and at that point the HR started to creep up.   For the most part that last mile I kept it around 165.   Finally, at mile 2.7 I decided I wanted to sprint in to the finish, so I hit about 172-173 or so.

Yes, I know that my HR is fast.  Resting HR lately in high 60's so guess I've just got a hyper ticker...  But I really am trying to follow the good advice of you fast dudes and dudettes.

 

2014-06-06 7:16 AM
in reply to: SSMinnow

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Originally posted by SSMinnow

I think saddles are so individual.  I had a lot of problems a few years ago and tested 6 before settling on the SMP Lite 109 which I absolutely love.  Looking at it you would think it was made for a guy (cut out), but it is so comfortable for a girl.




Quick question to all on saddles, how do you go about getting a new one? They aren't really cheap and I imagine just trying one at a store (if you're lucky enough to have a store close by that sells various models) isn't really enough time on one to tell. Do you just buy it online and kind of go through a bunch before you find the right one? I'm fine on my stock one right now, no discomfort or anything, but maybe it's not as comfortable as it could be? Not sure. Always kind of wondered how you get one.

Had a great run last night after a brutal bike (Sufferfest A Very Dark Place) Wednesday night. Just 4.5 miles but it felt effortless and I was pushing sub 9:00/mile for my Z2 which was more of an end of year goal but I'll take it when it comes in spurts right now. I'm getting really psyched for my Oly next week.
2014-06-06 7:27 AM
in reply to: triguy1043

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Originally posted by triguy1043

Originally posted by wannabefaster

Originally posted by triguy1043

Sorry I have been away

This weekend Super Sprint went well for me

I went 1:00:34 Losing to my best buddy by 14 seconds so I took 2nd OA

Splits were

250 Pool Swim 3:41
12 mile bike 33.26 - 20.6 MPH on a course with lots of elevation http://connect.garmin.com/activity/510746137
3 mile run sloppy cross country run all on grass 21:49

Overall very happy with the results considering I have not raced since 2012 and I went 58:?? on the same course while getting ready fro IM.

My question is in 2012 I was swimming 10,000 yards a week and swam the same 250 pool swim in 3:20 with NO SWIMMING AT ALL since the end of 2012 I was only 20 secs. slower. I was a 1:04 IM swimmer in 2012 as well.

It sort of shows me that even though I do get faster when I swim all the time the rate of investment seems DIM.

I just built a tether for my home pool so I plan on getting at least 3 - 30 mins swims in a week for the rest of the summer before my 70.3 in late Aug


I am very impressed. Nice racing and great result.

The return on swimming investment might be dim but the 21 seconds lost between 2012 and this year would have put you at the top of the podium........

Interesting comment about the swim and the similarity in your times given the dramatic difference in swim training. I believe that even the most ardent swimmer will agree that time gains in swimming are very hard to come by. I suspect that I could give up biking and running altogether, spend my 10-12 hours per week swimming only, and see only marginal gains in swim pace. Certainly at the expense of run and bike speed.

However, the other side of the coin is the swim fitness that allows you to get to the bike without being gassed so you can put down the hammer as soon as you are on the bike. When I started triathlon racing, just getting out of the water was a major accomplishment for me. I can tell you that it was probably 10 minutes in to the bike before I really was able to get to the work of pedaling hard. With all of my swimming over the last couple years, I have seen a depressingly small gain in swim pace but I am coming out of the water feeling good and ready to get started on the part of the race where I can make up time. It makes a big difference to me.

The struggle is finding that point where you are swim training enough to maintain swim fitness and form but not overdoing it so you can maximize the bike and run training where more time can be made up.

The last part of this commentary is that you are a better swimmer than the average triathlete. You likely have good form so your lack of swimming doesn't hurt you as much as it does someone like me who relies so much on their conditioning to make up for my glaring technique flaws. 3:20 for 250 yards and 1:04 for an IM swim are very respectable triathlete swim times (swimmers would laugh at those times but I'd like to see them bike and run after )


Jason thanks for the feedback!!

My drop in swim training right now is sole due to time and family!!
3 little ones at home it tough to get to the pool

Now my outdoor pool in now open so I will be swimming 3-4 times per week on tether.

But knowing I have a 70.3 on Aug. 31 I better get my butt in the pool or lake.

Jeremy- What kind of tether are you going to use? Something you made or did you buy it? I have a small in ground pool and was thinking of doing the same thing. Please let me know how it works out.
2014-06-06 7:52 AM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
I have a sprint on Sunday. Here is the dilemma. The bike is only 9.5 miles and I don't know if I should ride the tri bike or the road bike. On the tri bike I'm going to be a little faster but I'm still a novice rider on this bike and don't nearly have the handling skills I have on the road bike. I'm comfortable holding my line on the new bike my but still struggle looking behind me and getting out of aero and braking quickly. It's not a closed course so if I do any passing I'll have to look over my shoulder to check for vehicle traffic. I really want to ride the tri bike seeing how I just spent all that money on it. I think it's just a confidence thing. What do you guys think?


2014-06-06 8:19 AM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Originally posted by GoldenSprocket I have a sprint on Sunday. Here is the dilemma. The bike is only 9.5 miles and I don't know if I should ride the tri bike or the road bike. On the tri bike I'm going to be a little faster but I'm still a novice rider on this bike and don't nearly have the handling skills I have on the road bike. I'm comfortable holding my line on the new bike my but still struggle looking behind me and getting out of aero and braking quickly. It's not a closed course so if I do any passing I'll have to look over my shoulder to check for vehicle traffic. I really want to ride the tri bike seeing how I just spent all that money on it. I think it's just a confidence thing. What do you guys think?

There's a super sprint that I do during the summer that is a similar distance, and I use a roadie with clip-ons and honestly I'm only in aero for maybe a mile of it with all the turns, descents, climbs, bike and car traffic, etc.  Even if I had a dedicated tri-geometry bike, I'd stick with the roadie.

I guess it all depends on your comfort level, and given you have a new position on the tri bike you might not have it "dialed" in yet anyway, meaning your might wind up faster on the roadie.

In any case, ride like your hair is on fire and good luck!!

2014-06-06 8:29 AM
in reply to: GoldenSprocket

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Originally posted by GoldenSprocket

I have a sprint on Sunday. Here is the dilemma. The bike is only 9.5 miles and I don't know if I should ride the tri bike or the road bike. On the tri bike I'm going to be a little faster but I'm still a novice rider on this bike and don't nearly have the handling skills I have on the road bike. I'm comfortable holding my line on the new bike my but still struggle looking behind me and getting out of aero and braking quickly. It's not a closed course so if I do any passing I'll have to look over my shoulder to check for vehicle traffic. I really want to ride the tri bike seeing how I just spent all that money on it. I think it's just a confidence thing. What do you guys think?


I saw that there is some road work being done in that area this year, specifically on the course route, so maybe use the roadie just to be safe. I remember the route was two laps with a good amount of turns, not a lot of uphill. Good luck, that's a fun course.
2014-06-06 9:12 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED

Good luck to everyone racing this weekend.!!

Great news on your run, Suzy.  I remember the first day I ran a 5K run (not race) without any knee pain and I was elated.

I'd like to throw out a training plan question for you HIM'ers.  I'm pretty comfortable setting up the bike, swim, and strength/core stuff into my weekly calendar.  This won't be much different than what I just did for my Oly, just stretching out the bike some.  My problem is getting a long run in but having enough other mileage to keep it around 1/3 of total mileage for the week.

My current schedule is:

M:   AM swim/strength, lunch short run WU, 1 hour bike theshold/VO2 work
T:   AM  Q med run/strength, afternoon swim
W:   AM 90 min bike,  lunch med run
R:    AM Bikram Yoga - this keeps my body from falling apart  :-)
F:   AM swim Masters and short run home (~ 2 miles), lunch long ride up to 90 minutes,
Sa:   AM long run until bike gets over 90 mi
Su:   OFF or make up workout if needed

I'll probably flip-flop the long run and long bike once I need to get longer rides. 

So I guess my question is how do you fit in that 10+ mile run into a schedule without forcing yourself upwards of 30 mpw PLUS the 5 hours of cycling PLUS the swimming, etc., etc.?

2014-06-06 9:23 AM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Subject: RE: Slornow and Wannabefaster's Summer Group-CLOSED
Mike-

I have never worried about my long run being a certain percentage of my weekly mileage. There are many times where my long run is way more than 30% of the weekly mileage and there have been times during IM builds where the 20 mile long run is close to 50% of my weekly mileage. I know that pundits will say that this is a recipe for disaster but it has never been an issue for me. Juggling three sports for triathlon training means that something has to give and obeying the long run being no more that 25-30% of your weekly mileage is an area that I have had to let slide.

My caveat whenever I say anything like this: I have many years of mileage in my legs that may offer me some injury resistance to doing dumb things that the real experts recommend I not do......
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author : Ontherun
comments : 0
For most age-group triathletes, getting the most out of there time for quality workouts can be daunting. Think outside the triangle to get a little more.
 
date : November 27, 2005
author : Rich Strauss
comments : 0
Tri clubs offer all of us, from beginner to advanced athlete, a venue in which we can realign our perspective of what “fast” and “far” are, pushing us to new and greater heights of performance.