Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN! (Page 15)

Deb,

thanks for posting these links.  My left hip has been a recurring problem for me over the last couple of years and I can feel it starting in again now (always seems to act up when I take my run mileage above 3-4 miles).  I'm definitely going to add these to my routine.

Janet

Steve,

Thank you for sharing that story.  I think I have more respect for the people like you described than anyone else.  There is a guy at the gym I use that has to be pushing 400.  He is there every time I go to the gym.  He's there before I get there, and still there after I have swam and done weights.  So many times I have wanted to go up to him and thank him for being such an inspiration and to just say "good job" for being there.  I never seem to work up the courage to talk to him.  But I admire him none the less.

You're right, seeing this gentleman at the gym reminds me that the only obstacles I have in front of my, I place there myself.

Steve,

I know you know what I am about to say, but it needs to be said nonetheless.  Don't try to shortcut the doctors orders.  When you start feeling better, the temptation is going to be there to get back to it, especially if the recovery stretches into months.  Just be patient my friend and do what the doctor advises.  Those are words I have seen you offer to others, probably never imagining that you might have them come back toward you one day.  There will be plenty of time to get back to the front of the pack.  This is the time to work on patience.

Now that we know you are well on the road to recovery.  I am wondering how your bike made out?  Is it repairable or are you in the market for a new bike?

Hey James!

Glad to see you.  It's been so long I was starting to think you got in the water in Boston Harbor and just decided to head across the pond to jolly ole England!

I seem to recall that we talked about the program you are following back in early winter.  Yes, you should definitely be moving to more yards.  You said you did 10 laps followed by 30 laps - that is 750 yards.  On 2014-06-15 8:10 PM I posted a reply to Bill (wrhall2).  In that I talked about a base endurance build.  I didn't give him an actual workout per se, however I gave him the information to build his own.  I would suggest the same thing for you.  You can do less repetitions if you need to for the first couple weeks, but I suspect you could probably do a whole workout as written.

As you begin to do longer workouts, remember what I have said about stroke technique.  Be especially aware of your form as you move through the workout.  If your technique breaks down, add time to your next rest period.  If that does not correct the technique - GET OUT OF THE WATER, GO HOME, AND COME BACK THE NEXT TIME.  That is going to continue to be true until such time as you are doing speed repetitions (intensive endurance intervals, AKA vomit reps - cause they HURT).

Let me know if you have any questions.

Opps!  How did I miss that?

NO!  I won't label anybody a wussy.  52 degrees is COLD to be swimming in!  I think up in Ventura it gets all the way down to 55 at the end of January, I would have to go all the way up to San Francisco to get down to the low 50's.  Down here in So. Cal. at Huntington Beach I think it only drops to about 58, Newport gets down to maybe 57.  Fortunately we don't have any racing when it is that cold.  By the time races start back up in the ocean the temps are up in to the mid to upper 60's.

Hey Scott -

I would say join now.  That said, I will give you a couple things to think about.

First, and most importantly, most master's programs are for swimmers training for a swim meet, not triathletes training for a triathlon.  That can be problematic if the coach insists you do all the stroke sets, the kicking sets, or any of the drills they may do.  My first suggestion would be talk to the coach and let him know you are training for a triathlon in which you will be doing freestyle and only freestyle and you would like to train with that in mind.

Next, as you have already discovered, swimming with a group can provide good motivation.  Remember however, that you are training for a triathlon.  Your primary focus needs to be on building endurance.  Yes, the occasional speed work will be beneficial, however, when you get in a group, it is not uncommon for the 'competitive drive' to kick in and you find yourself going harder than you intended.

Be VERY mindful of stroke technique.  You mentioned "my technique got a little sloppy the last 300-400m."  I submit that you will probably be better served to end your workout when you stroke breaks down rather than pushing on with poor technique.  If you are training with the masters team, in fairly short order your swim fitness will improve to the point you can go the whole workout without the stroke breakdown.  In the meantime, consider this, our body's tend to "remember" the bad habits much more easily than the good habits.  You can swim 1,000 meters with absolutely PERFECT technique, and then close out with 100 meters of poor technique.  Your body is going to remember the 100 meters of poor technique.  My recommendation is, if your technique breaks down, take a longer rest period, or better yet, skip an interval.  If that does not restore your technique to PERFECT technique, get out of the water, go  home, and try again next time.  As I said earlier, it won't take long until you have the fitness and technique to complete a workout with no stroke degradation.  Until then, protect your stroke like you protect your social security number.

I keep saying you are training for a triathlon.  There are a number of subtle differences in the freestyle stroke between 'swim-meet freestyle,' and 'triathlon freestyle.'  Of more importance to the discussion at hand is the difference in energy pathways and recovery between the two types of freestyle and how we train for each.  In a swim meet, a swimmer typically is swimming a relatively short distance - 50, 100, 200.  There are longer events however very few swimmers compete in those events.  So say that you are swimming a 100 meter freestyle event.  That is known as a sprint event.  The gun sounds, and you are anaerobic from nearly the moment you hit the water off the blocks.  You are using your glycogen stores for most of your energy and you are creating massive amounts of lactate and lactic acid.  However, the good news is that  you swim your event, and a minute or so later you are done and out of the water looking at a couple of hours to recover and refuel before your next event.  On the other hand, as a triathlete, you need to be swimming aerobically if you have any hope of completing the full triathlon.  You aren't going to have a recovery period when you come out of the water, indeed you are getting on a bike and then running.  I am stating the obvious because I want to highlight the different training that swimmers and triathletes do.  Swimmers are obviously training to become faster and stronger, but more importantly they are training their body's to clear lactic acid, while triathletes on the other hand are training their aerobic energy pathways.  Respectively, the first is done by doing high intensity intervals at or slightly above threshold (high zone 4, low zone 5) with low rest periods, while the second is done by lower intensity intervals (high zone 2, low zone 3) with more rest.  That is the biggest problem with training with a master's team that is training for swim meets.  Just be aware of the difference and set your pace accordingly.

Be aware of the yardage the master's group is putting in versus the yardage you need to be putting in.  Your workouts, as a general rule, should be 1.5-2.0 times the swim distance of your longest race distance this season.  Compare that to what the team is doing.  If the longest triathlon you are planning this season is a sprint tri then the team will probably be doing quite a few more yards than you need.  On the other hand, if your plan is to compete at the full iron distance, I can all but guarantee you the team is not doing anywhere near the yardage you would need to be doing.

Some master's teams have exceptionally good coaching, others not so much.  If there is a good coach on deck, so much the better as you will have a valuable source for stroke correction and improvement.

I try to encourage everyone to find a GOOD master's program.  Make sure you know what YOU need to accomplish before a workout and make sure that you at least get that done.

Happy swimming!

That's funny!  Thank you Steve, now I have Iced Tea running out of my nose!