MightyMojoMentorGroup -- (Full House!) (Page 155)

Anne and Alex - Sounds like you both had a good day today - Congrats.

Anne - I'd love to be able to swim @ 2:23/100, bike at 28kph (Friel says 28.96 is aerodynamically optimal), and run @ a 6:18/km pace or for that matter anywhere near those numbers so it all sounds pretty impressive to me.

Dave - enjoy your vacation and I hope you have no trouble relaxing.

I was planning a 4hr bike today but then my wife was talking about a special breakfast and dinner so I clued in it is Father's day today so I cancelled my plans and stayed home.  And, I'm feeling a bit "Grumpy Old Man-ish".  On the other hand there is a German Chocolate cake somewhere in the house so I'll get back to swimming and cycling tomorrow.

I envy you your bike speed! Most of my long rides I'm still hovering around a 15 mph average. None of my rides are flat which plays a part in that pace but it sure would be nice to be faster. Today we went out for a ride and I had a couple of miles here and there with a 20-22 average but the uphills and headwinds just kill me. I'll get stronger with time but it's frustrating when I want the speed NOW

Yes, I have an oly next Sunday, a HIM in July, an oly in August and I decided to set up my own HIM in late September when my plan has me do one instead of having to travel to do one that weekend. I have a 1/2M in early September with my daughter and one in early October that I'll just do as a training run. I actually have that time/distance on my schedule and Dave wanted to do it since it's a local race we've done a few years. After that it's all just focused training until IMAZ.

Which one/when is your HIM?

GANG!

Following a blessed five or six days in which the computer was behaving, it reverted back to its sketchy ways yesterday, and is hit and miss even now.  So this'll be quick, just an acknowledgement that stuff has been happening in your worlds --- and I need to get going with some decent replies!

For now:

JOHANNE - More terific training, regularly knocking off long-distance stuff with the eyes strongly on the prize of IMAZ.  Any plans to dial things back this week in prep for the oly, or are you just "training through it"?

ANNE - Superb work yesterday, and of course especially on the swim and bike.  I was very worried they would call the whole thing off, but a slight delay in starting was all -- compromises don't get much better than that!

DAVE - Interesting observations, and you're right -- big diff between the bookends of Z2.  I hear your concern about maybe having too mnay workouts too slack, but another way you can think of it is through the old adage of triathletes too often making their "easy" days too hard, and their "hard" days too easy.  So, if you have been doing some easy work and think now it was in low Z2.......then that's maybe exactly where you wanted it to be anyhow.  More later!

ALEX - Snuck that one past us in the planning, didn't you?  Glad you're pleased with how it wnet.....and now I just have to wait for details!

GEORGE - I backed off a ride (hardly four planned hours, though) due to F-day, too, although there was nothing really in the works.  It just seemed the right thing to generally hang at home with Lynn -- especially since she had just returned from a three-day canoe trip.  Looking to get on the bike today, now that F-day is in the rearview.  And how was the cake?

Gonna post this now while the machine is still connected!

Steve,

Nice that your cyberworld behaved for a bit!

I'm going to taper as a result of my bike going in for a tuneup today-Wednesday or Thursday and I'm going on a quick overnight trip down to L.A. to move my youngest into a house for her senior year of college. I think that's going to land up working out about as close to a planned taper so that will work

This oly is more practice then anything close to a 'A' race. I did it last year. It's a local race I ride/run all the time. This year they moved the swim down the road because the original lake is nasty (the same place my first tri of the year became a du last month) so we will have a point to point race. The bike is still a route I ride often so it'll be fun. 

My plan since I like my plans :

Swim-pretend it's like my last 2 Saturday open water swims and stay relaxed. I'm not worried about time as much as staying consistent.

Bike-I know the course so I want to push where I know I can and stay strong for the uphills since I know where they end

Run-it'll be flat so I just want to focus on maintaining a good even pace and finish with a sprint!

Did you ever get your MRI results back?

Johanne

JOHANNE -

The cyberworld is unpredictable.  It was terrible the previous Fr/Sa/Su and into Mo, and I called the guy we have the contract with, who said he would get his tech guy to call us.  That didn't happen.....but that was okay because it was fine up through Saturday -- and then yesterday it was awful again.  It seems fine now, so I'm inclined to ride it out...maybe....although I also want to call back the provider, who can be an arrogant dinkwad, and let him know we never heard from his techie and that I'm not amused.  We'll see how far any of this goes.

Will post now, return shortly.

JOHANNE again -

As for the MRI, I see my sports doc next Friday for a consult about them.  I'm a bit concerned, as he wouldn't drag me there unless something showed up.  Having said that.....isn't that why I got them done anyhow?!?  What has been ailing meis a mystery, and at (manymanymany) times I have viewed it as possibly one of those things that is basically incurable because it is a deep mystery.  So......if somthing is on the images, at least I'll know what i'm dealing with.

Being (somewhat) honest with myself, I guess I fear some major surgery, maybe a bionic hip replacement or something else similarly radical.  I probably have no real reason to worry about that, as the hip carries me through the demands I place on it quite adequately.  Plus, I still think it is nerve-related, as opposed to some deep and dire structural problem.  I guess I'll find out soon enough.

In the meantime, I may be heading for another cortisone shot, as it's acted up a bit in the past week.  I had the first cortisone just about exactly a year ago, then a second at the end of August.  I then went until December without any treatment, and at that time I elected to go with a $400 injection of Durolane -- which is not covered by our insurance.  I was initially disappointed with that, as it failed to provide the desired "miracle" cure.  But as time has gone by and it's been tolerable - and certainly better than it was in the months leading up to cortisone #1 - and I realize it's six months since I had it, it maybe wasn't a bad thing.  I don't think i can afford $400 every six months, however, so my next trip will be for cortisone again.  But as you maybe know, cortisone carries very clear risks if used too frequently.

Blah, blah, blah -- aren't you sorry you asked?

Post now, return again.

JOHANNE once more -

Yes, you sure do like your plans!

Given the length and duration of those two swims, I think staying consistent will be very easy.  You really only have to "keep it together" for slightly more than a third of each of the long swims, and I doubt that'll pose any problems for you.  Of course, crowds or water rowdiness could mess with your steadiness and consistency, but as for you yourself -- you'll be fine!

As for the bike and run, they are perfect for you to push yourself a fair bit -- if that's how you feel on race day.  I love repeat races for just those reasons -- knowing the course and having a good idea of where and when to push, and how hard and for how long.

And if a goal for you is to keep an even pace on the run, flat is ideal.  It's also ideal for "surviving" a hard bike, if your ride on race day places you at the edge of some of your limits, so overall you are primed for a fun day that is punctualted by a few experiments.  Sounds great!!

ANNE -

Bloody hell -- I just lost one to when the machine disconnected.  Grrr!

It was to say that I saw you prelim report in your logs, and that you did really well in meeting or almost meeting those goals.  I also said to round up the 17.99 to 18 even!

As for the race belt -- that's why i always wear it under the wetsuit.  The one time I forgot turned out to be a fiasco (maybe I'll tell that story later), and unless you are one of those who saves all their bibs, you might as well wear 'em under the wetsuit.  (They can be "eaten up", though -- just look at the shape of mine in the avatar (?) photo here!)

Thank goodness that post worked.  Grumble-grumble!

STEVE,

Didn't get home till 5:00ish.   Too tired to write up report but I have some thoughts I wanted to share about my bike.    Didn't even think about which cassette I have been using this season.    Probably had the 12-27 on the bike because of doing all the Collingwood riding last year.    When I put the 11-23 on Friday night and went for a spin around the block I couldn't believe how hard it felt - thought maybe I was just tired.   

But it wasn't just that.  When I was riding the 12-27, if I had the chain on the big ring in the front and the smallest in the back, I could often spin quite easy and it bugged me that I couldn't make the bike go faster.   I had no more gears.   

On the 11-23, with the chain on the big ring in front and in the middle ring in the back - I find it tough!   In the race I would try and use a harder gear but my cadence dropped as did my speed so I would switch it back up one gear and the speed would increase and it was easier on the legs but my speed was only around 32-33 (cross wind).     Although I didn't have a HR monitor, I could tell my HR was pretty low.    I could tell that most guys had a much lower cadence than me and were flying.  

Not sure if I have lost strength; never had it in the first place for that cassette; was tired from last week's tri and 2 hard back to back days of riding and running, or a combination of those.    At least I know I have more gears to use to get some more speed, but don't know if I can get that in the next 3 weeks. 

What do you think?

ANNE -

Intriguing post, the one just above, and I did my homework and maybe have some stuff for you to think about.  This'll be briefish, though, given fears of disconnecting.  The following examples are using Shimano Ultegra components, 10-speed combinations; what are on your bike, anyhow?

For 11-23 cogsets, the tooth-counts are:  11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23

For 12-27 cogsets, the toothcounts are:   12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-24-27

When you say you feel a difference when you are in the middle cogs, is there a chance that the middle could include the 3rd and 4th largest cogs?  if so, that's where there is the greter difference (other than for the two largest cogs), and even though it may seem small (17 vs 19; 19 vs 21), it is something you could probably feel; that's what those cogs are all about, right?

I will post this now and think more later.  But let me know what system you are using, as different systems have subtle differences in the cogs they use for, say, a 12-27 cassette.

Finally, I wonder if you might "enjoy" a cassette of 11-25, with this combination:  11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25

Let's hope this posts.......

Yay.

OK, those numbers don't mean much to me - but - I have Shimano ultegra components with a Dura Ace derailleur? 

When I was looking down and back during the race at the cassette it looked like I must have been in the 3rd largest one and going to the 4th made it a bit too tough.    So that is counting down from the the biggest - 1, 2, 3.  

What would an 11-25 do?    I'm doing a 90 min tempo ride at 6:00 tonight with 2 x 16 min at threshold with 10 min active recoveries in between segments.  

Thanks.

STEVE,

Another question - Ken has been trying to figure out the grade and length of the Edmonton hill from the little data we have and he thinks it might be about 1km long with a 40 meter climb over that distance.    Do you remember it?    We are going to head to Collingwood on Saturday - have a hill that looks like it will work.   Actually it is 5km long, but we thought we would just climb the 1km, go back down and do a bit of flats then do it again.     I think in Edmonton we don't decend right away - have a few blocks of flat first. 

Sorry to have so many questions when your computer is acting up. 

STEVE again,

Heading out to the club for a short strength session, then over to Guelph to pick up my sprouts.   Back after lunch. 

Was reading your post to Johanne about the hip and the shots.   I didn't realize it is was giving you that much grief.   Don't worry about the MRI results.   As you say, it is always better to know WHAT you are dealing with and if it is worse case scenario, hip surgeries now are simply amazing. 

When I had my debilatating hip issue in early 2006? - I could not stand for longer than a few minutes and barely walk - it was not structural, but a DEEP, DEEP, labram bruising.  That was still showing on the MRI 6 months after the 'injury'.   They said it might have been worse than that but they would need more testing which I didn't bother with.    6 months of only swimming cleared it up but the nagging aching didn't go away for years and when I overdo things the aching will come back. 

Praying that yours is an easy fix.  

ANNE -

The 11-25 would give you that one extra cog (the 11) before you "run out of gears", plus it would provide a compromise between having the 23 and having the 27.  It's also more gradual running through the easier gears, with two-tooth jumps as opposed to the the three-tooth jumps in the 12-27.  Probably not a big deal, but just a bit smoother.

The difference (between your two cogsets) you would feel is not extereme, but just looking at the 3rd cog down, on the 11-23 it is 19, on the 12-27 it is a 21.  So, at times when your legs are saying to shift, they maybe want the 21 of the 12-27, but where you're at is a 19 on the 11-23.  I think that is perceivable, and for me, well, i get used to where I should be and what I should feel when my shifter is in a certain position.....and if I've changed wheels I can be thrown off abit -- not to mention having to work harder (or easier).

When I'm on my trainer, one set of wheels I use is 12-27, the other is 11-23 -- just like your situation!  And I sure do feel the difference in effort on the trainer, going from one to the other.  (I don't feel it so much outside.)

As for Groat road, a km seems about right, but the gradient I'm less certain about.  I'll see if we have an old Edmonton topo map in the garage.

Maybe you can plot it on the BT route feature. That will give you the amount of climb and distance traveled, easy enough to do the math and get a close enough estimate of grade.

Thanks.   I'm too lazy to try that.      So finally broke down and called them.   Apparently THEY are having difficulty with Google and getting the maps to print without too much confusion about the route???   Anyway, there is a 30m climb, 1/2 km long immediatly out of transition, then about 1km flattish, followed by a 40 meter climb over 1.5km.   

So far 342 registered with 3 in my age group but still lots of athletes with no age attached to them yet.  

ANNE -

Have you found the headbanger/motrocyclist You Tube video yet?  Do a google search for Groat Road edmonton running, and it'll come up about halfway down the first page.  It's a motorcyclist filming a motorcyclist descending and then ascending, complete with pounding soundtrack.  It's not 100% ideal, but it'll give you some idea of the twisty turns and (roughly) the gradient.

Good move phoning them.......although the answer sounds kind of lame.  I mean, the world is full of capable webmasters and image manipulators who could probably conjure up a decent map in an hour or two.  The answer you got reminds me of how I would respond, were I in charge of trying to produce a workable course map!

Thanks for the tip on the video.   Checked it out quickly.   Will look at it again tomorrow.   Had a good 90 min bike session this evening with 2 x 16 minutes at threshold.    My Max HR's per km hit threshold but my average HR for these segments was sub-threshold.   Felt stronger than I thought I might - tried to use one harder gear for the 2nd interval.    My km splits are in my log - fairly consistent.  

I thought that was a pretty lame excuse too.   Really? 

I went out for a ride today.  I road down to the south end of Vaseux Lake (my most frequent route) then I turned around and headed home.  About 1km later I was riding along the lake and I startled some deer about 10' to my right so I looked over at them and realized they were 9 Longhorn Sheep.  I like to pay attention to wildlife but the sheep were definitely a surprise right along the road.

The ride was good but after my saddle fit last friday and riding today for the first time on a new saddle - I sure hope there is a bit of "adjustment" time with a new saddle because it was no better if not a bit worse for a fairly short ride.  In fairness to the saddle I didn't stop at all for the whole 2.5hr ride.

Swimming tomorrow.

You are lucky to have such great routes to ride.  We don't get to see much wildlife.

Re your saddle.   A few years back when I was having some problems, I was trying out numerous types of saddles to correct the situation, but the bottom (ha, ha) line is that no matter what saddle you get, or how expensive it is, there is always a break-in/adjustment time.   Of course, the break-in period will vary depending on the saddle and the person.   2.5 hours might be a bit long for the first time out on it.  

Thanks for the congrats on my race on Sunday.   I AM getting excited about the possibilities on my bike.    Last night I did 16min at 32.2 avg with the wind and then another 16min at 30.5 (4km with and 4km against the wind). 

Enjoy your swim today. 

GEORGE -

Anne beat me to it in pointing out that if you're looking to break in a new saddle.....you went a bit beyond the standard limits of a "break in".  My thougt would be that you did about 5X longer than you maybe should've.  Seriously!  I would probably top out at 40 minutes max, with lower sghts set for 20 min, and 30 as a decent compromise. 

There are a few aspects of this silliness we do that almost require judiciousness when it comes to breaking-in periods.  One is running shoes, and neck-in-neck is anything dealing with bike fit -- saddle up or down, or fore or aft; stem raised or lowered; bars replaced with a different model.  And right after those would be a new saddle, which if it is slightly wider or slightly narrower (or maybe way narrower or wider!) will require your hips to do some gymnastics, which in turn will affect your knees.  And coming bcak to running shoes, something else that demands restraint is transitioning to going sockless, and also any transitioning to a different "style" of running (such as moving one's stride to more midfoot- or forefoot-striking).

Anything else I can be a nag about?

I also agree with Anne that you have some phemomenal riding routes......so maybe you should be forgiven for wanting to ride so long.  But for now......if at all humanly possible......keep those rides significantly shorter as you attempt to break in that new saddle!

How did the swim go?

ANNE -

Nice bike workout, with those two 16-min threshold efforts.  It is pretty remarkable how consistent your avg HR was on the first one.  Ba-bump. Ba-bump. Ba-bump.  The first one also featured those very sweet times -- you were flyin'!

Overall, that's just a quality workout, and I ought to know -- I used to do ones like that myself!  Really, those sustained efforts at power/speed are wonderful training, and choosing 16 min +/- was perfect for the duration.  You did enough to give you an idea of what you can hold for an extended period, without compromising it by by trying to go too long.  Having two of them that provide quality data are much better than one in which the effort gets watered down towards the end, or a second one that pales in comparison to the first.  In the latter case, all that teaches you is that if you go too hard for too long......you have much less to give as the workout or subsequent race progresses.

Got that Edmonton course figured out yet?