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Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. (Page 16)
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 2010-02-04 9:17 AM in reply to: #2654342 |
 NH |  Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed.aarondavidson - 2010-02-04 10:05 AM wbayek - 2010-02-04 8:03 AM Welcome Darren. On the long run Aaron, I've heard the 25-30% rule as well. But that's tough if you're only running 4 times a week, and impossible if you cut down to 3 during three sport training. What should you shoot? I'm trying to add another run day to get to 5, and even at 5 days, 30% is tough. My plan leading up to the half is 10, 6,5,5,4 and that still has the long run at 33%. If I don't get the 5th day but stick with around 28 miles, the long run is 35%. I would try to add more runs. Short runs, 20-30min, try to sneak them in. Thanks, even I can fit in a 20 minute run on "off" days. And if it's at a low intensity the recovery impact is minimal and in fact I seem to like a little easy activity on a rest day. |
| 2010-02-04 9:29 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Extreme Veteran  386  Rio Rancho - where you can ride year round! | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. this is what I read about the other day as well, long runs only being 25-30%. Which for me, is hard to do when I'm only running three days a week with about 12 miles total. But the three runs a week is also new to me, so that in itself increased my run total. Right now I'm training for a sprint, so 12 or so is good for me considering my run miles used to be around 8/week in the past 1.5 years. During January - my runs were usually 3.6, 4, 5. And the best thing - bumping to three workouts for run and bike this past month didn't wear me out as much as I thought. |
| 2010-02-04 12:11 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Master 1736  Midcoast Maine | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Welcome Darren - glad you could join us! I'm looking at my cold in the rearview mirror and psyched to get back on plan. Today was a bike/run day...during the run today I ran into some issues. I am working on the 1/2 marathon plan (through BT)...and the run for today was 15 min @ Z1, 15 min @ Z2, 10 min @ Z3 and 5 min @ Z1. With a HRM, I had a really hard time matching those goals...pretty much what ended up happening is I got up to high Z3 - low Z4 and stayed there for the whole run. I tried to slow it down (stepping of the treadmill for a bit, slowing the belt down, etc) - but as soon as I started back with any effort - the HR went right back up. (FWIW, I did the LTHR test a couple of weeks ago for running with my LTR = 162) My questions for you all are twofold: 1) For my HR to be in Z1, the belt is going between 3.5 - 4.5 mph - which seems wickedly slow. At that rate, I'll cross the finish line at the 1/2 in about 3 1/2 hours! I can go faster at what seems to me to be a fairly light effort. 2) HR seems to lag effort quite a bit (it takes a while for my HR to reflect the changes I have made) - so is it better for me to go by perceived effort? Because of all of the biking I have done on the trainer this winter - I have nailed down almost exactly what cadence I need for each HR zone on the bike. I don't feel like I even have the capability to do that on the run because the amount of effort is so ridiculously low for Z1-Z2. Any recommendations would be appreciated. |
| 2010-02-04 1:01 PM in reply to: #2654984 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. itsallrelative_Maine - 2010-02-04 1:11 PM Welcome Darren - glad you could join us! (FWIW, I did the LTHR test a couple of weeks ago for running with my LTR = 162) My questions for you all are twofold: 1) For my HR to be in Z1, the belt is going between 3.5 - 4.5 mph - which seems wickedly slow. At that rate, I'll cross the finish line at the 1/2 in about 3 1/2 hours! I can go faster at what seems to me to be a fairly light effort. 2) HR seems to lag effort quite a bit (it takes a while for my HR to reflect the changes I have made) - so is it better for me to go by perceived effort? Because of all of the biking I have done on the trainer this winter - I have nailed down almost exactly what cadence I need for each HR zone on the bike. I don't feel like I even have the capability to do that on the run because the amount of effort is so ridiculously low for Z1-Z2. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Great that the cold is gone! As far as finishing your half in 3 1/2 hours, I'm sure the plan isn't assuming you'll run the race in z1. Some running should be done at what I've heard called uncomfortably slow, which doesn't mean you'll ever race at that pace. I found HR to be misleading more in running than biking on the trainer. When I run, if my HR goes up for some reason (hills, chased by a dog, heavy winds, whatever), it tends to stay higher for the whole run no matter what I do. I now just use the training paces as described in McMillan's calculators. Basically you put your best time for a known distance in and he spouts out a bunch of data, including predicted times for various distance races (I hope my half marathon is faster than his predicted time!) and also all sorts of paces for recovery runs, intervals, cruise intervals, etc. You could convert the instructions from your plan to those paces I suppose (z1=recovery, z2=long or easy run, z3=steady state, z4=tempo or interval). If I were using a plan with z levels, I'd tend to use RPE more than HR. I could be way off on that, so don't quote me. But in general, if you have a plan you like and trust, follow the plan. |
| 2010-02-04 1:09 PM in reply to: #2654984 |
Extreme Veteran 542 Pauls Valley, OK | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. itsallrelative_Maine - 2010-02-04 12:11 PM Welcome Darren - glad you could join us! 1) For my HR to be in Z1, the belt is going between 3.5 - 4.5 mph - which seems wickedly slow. At that rate, I'll cross the finish line at the 1/2 in about 3 1/2 hours! I can go faster at what seems to me to be a fairly light effort. Because of all of the biking I have done on the trainer this winter - I have nailed down almost exactly what cadence I need for each HR zone on the bike. I don't feel like I even have the capability to do that on the run because the amount of effort is so ridiculously low for Z1-Z2. Any recommendations would be appreciated. When I first started training with heart rate monitor, zone-2 runs were painfully slow. I thought there was no way I was getting any conditioning, but I trusted the plan and stuck with it. Before the HR monitor I was probably running all workouts 6:00-7:30 / mile. When I tested, and determined my HR zones, zone 2 was 12:00+ / mile. By the end of the year, I was running near 8:00 / mile in zone 2. It does seem painfully slow and easy at first, but your body will get more efficient and faster for the effort level. (at least mine did) (oh and I'm assuming z-1 is recovery zone since it looks like that was your warm up and cool down, and those are supposed to be slow, really slow) As far as going off RPE, in my opinion that's good if you are calibrated right. Before running with a HR monitor I would have considered z-4 and easy effort, and z-1 and z-2 a waste of time. Like you with cycling, after training with an HR monitor for a while, I know what the different zones feel like and can run off of RPE now. My non-professional opinion is run in the prescribed zones (distance days are for distance, and speed days are for speed). It'll get faster, and it'll be easier on your body. You will also learn what an LCD run is really supposed to feel like. I know I was surprised. I am interested to hear everyone else's experience with HR training. |
| 2010-02-04 2:16 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Veteran 286 Orange, CA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Welcome, Darren...great to meet you. On the HR side...I'm going through the same thing. Z2 seems really slow and hard on my legs. I don't feel like I'm working at that level so I'm going to retest and see if it changes my zones. Otherwise, I've trained RPE for most of my life so I'm doing mostly that till I figure out if LTHR stuff works for me. The only thing I can think is it will go up a bit so I can run at what I consider a reasonable long-run-pace. |
| 2010-02-04 7:45 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Expert 1246 West Grove, PA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Hello all! A wasted day for me. I had planned on taking a rest day today, and it ended up being that. However, my wife became sick today. Nothing major, but I'll be getting the kids ready for school tomorrow (thus no AM workout) and then taking her to the doctor (no lunchtime workout). I think it was Jeff Goldblum that said it in Jurrasic Park... "Sometimes, life gets in the way". Oh well. We've got 12-18 inches of snow coming in the next 48 hours, so I hope to grab some time on the trainer and treadmill. |
| 2010-02-04 8:14 PM in reply to: #2656023 |
Extreme Veteran 386 Rio Rancho - where you can ride year round! | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. billsorg - 2010-02-04 6:45 PM On a side note, I have a really dumb question... blisters on the feet... Pop 'em or leave 'em alone? After my runs on Tues and Wed, I had a blister on each foot. Just off to the side of the ball of the foot. They were really bothering me Wed night, so I popped them. Feeling better today and should be good enough to run on tomorrow. But then I thought, the body puts that fluid in there for a reason, so why am I taking it out? Any thoughts, experiences, etc? As you can see, I'm a little punchy after a weird day. your area of blisters are the location I get blisters when I do. I've always popped them to dry out, I couldn't stand the feeling of the blister. And, I thought they healed faster once popped. But, I could be doing it wrong so who am I to say....although I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night  (i know, bad joke)! |
| 2010-02-04 8:49 PM in reply to: #2656023 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. billsorg - 2010-02-04 8:45 PM Hello all! A wasted day for me. I had planned on taking a rest day today, and it ended up being that. However, my wife became sick today. Nothing major, but I'll be getting the kids ready for school tomorrow (thus no AM workout) and then taking her to the doctor (no lunchtime workout). I think it was Jeff Goldblum that said it in Jurrasic Park... "Sometimes, life gets in the way". Oh well. We've got 12-18 inches of snow coming in the next 48 hours, so I hope to grab some time on the trainer and treadmill. Thankfully we are going to miss out on that snow up here.
Leave the blisters. They will heal faster if they are left alone. |
| 2010-02-05 9:08 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Veteran 526 Richmond | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Darren - Welcome to the group - you joined a very good group with a great mentor. HR - I have one but haven't starting using it yet, so I am still learning myself. I calculated my zones and got some data from stationary (expresso ;~) bike at gym. Running programs - I used Run Less, Run Faster for my marathon training last year and found it to be very simple to follow. It's foundation is built on 3 key/quality runs per week, sprints/track, tempo (mid-distance) and a long run at high intensities. It also called for 2 other days of cross training per week (bike/swim, etc.), but the 3 key workouts wiped me out so I rested 4 days a week. It charts out your exact workouts and paces from a pace table that is based on your last best 10K. It calls short runs that other programs call for everyday as junk mileage and not very useful. I guess this may be different for triathlon training, because these programs appear to have a lot of what they call junk miles, low effort for short distances. I achieved my goal time fairly easily by sticking to this book's plan, it was based on an incredible amount of research and testing of marathoners. It also has programs for 5k - marathon distances. Highly recommend this book. Getting round #3 of winter storms here, hope they don't close the gym again, but it will be ok if they do since I have some family in town to celebrate my daughter's first birthday on Sunday. Hope everyone has a great Friday and weekend! |
| 2010-02-05 12:30 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Hey, we have a celebrity in the house. Great article Jennifer. The Maniac last year was my first tri as well. Great small event - my boys are "forcing" me to do it again. And I love your long term plans. I'm not gutsy enough to publish mine! |
| 2010-02-05 2:56 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Extreme Veteran 386 Rio Rancho - where you can ride year round! | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. everyone have a fun weekend! hopefully the weather is ok for you all to get outside and do something! |
| 2010-02-05 4:03 PM in reply to: #2657572 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. barelfly - 2010-02-05 3:56 PM everyone have a fun weekend! hopefully the weather is ok for you all to get outside and do something! So we're scheduled to be mid 20's and 10-15 mph winds. Sounds about normal. No snow though. How did everyone make out for snow? Have a great weekend everyone. Edited by wbayek 2010-02-05 4:13 PM |
| 2010-02-05 6:41 PM in reply to: #2654232 |
New user 33 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed? ray6foot7 - 2010-02-04 8:33 AM Welcome to the group Darren. What part of Oklahoma are you from? I've done the Tulsa Tri a few times. It was my first one back in 1986, back then it was at Keystone Lake. I'd like to do the Tulsa Tri this year, but it's the weekend following Kansas 70.3. I also plan on doing Redman this year. Ahh, the Tulsa Tri... I had a great time but blew out a tire at mile 10 (with 14 to go) and had no tube or co2. I had replaced both my tubes & tires the night before thinking (that's not good) that I shouldn't have any problems. wrong, I eventually did finish, pretty bummed out about it but a learning experience. It was at Lake Skiatook and biking back into Tulsa. I'm from Ada. |
| 2010-02-05 7:36 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Veteran 526 Richmond | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Great inspirational story to all triathletes, especially newbies like me, thanks for sharing your story Jennifer! |
| 2010-02-05 9:31 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I am sponsored by Brooks, but K-Swiss makes a real solid triathlon specific shoe. If you have not registered for Kansas70.3 yet: Promotion is good for new registrations until Feb. 14th. Register for the K-Swiss IM 70.3 Kansas (www.ironmankansas.com ) or the K-Swiss IM 70.3 Branson (www.ironmanbranson.com) Put in the code - KSWISS - and your shoe size to get a FREE pair of K-Swiss K-Ona Performance Running Shoes! |
| 2010-02-06 7:51 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
Master 1736 Midcoast Maine | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Hey guys - tomorrow is the first race for someone in our group - bfoyle is doing the Surf City Half marathon! Good luck - we'll be waiting to hear how it goes and what lessons we can learn for our halfs coming up. |
| 2010-02-06 11:52 AM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Good luck Bob. Set the pace for us! |
| 2010-02-06 6:21 PM in reply to: #2658428 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. itsallrelative_Maine - 2010-02-06 8:51 AM Hey guys - tomorrow is the first race for someone in our group - bfoyle is doing the Surf City Half marathon! Good luck - we'll be waiting to hear how it goes and what lessons we can learn for our halfs coming up. Good luck stay safe. |
| 2010-02-06 6:29 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Expert 1246 West Grove, PA | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. Go get 'em, Bob!!!! We got 2 feet of snow. YIKES! I did manage to get a 45 minute trainer ride in yesterday and a 5 mile treadmill run in today... add to that a half hour or so of shoveling, not bad. Hope everyone has a great weekend! |
| 2010-02-06 8:13 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Veteran 526 Richmond | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. GO Bob GO!! Good luck on your race!!! |
| 2010-02-06 9:42 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
New user 33 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. great article jennifer, thanks |
| 2010-02-06 10:42 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
Extreme Veteran 386 Rio Rancho - where you can ride year round! | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. so - I should have checked the weather for the back easterners! man - getting hammered! sorry you guys are getting all the white stuff. It's supposed to be coming here on Sunday and a few times next week. |
| 2010-02-06 10:57 PM in reply to: #2659105 |
Elite 2423 | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. billsorg - 2010-02-06 7:29 PM Go get 'em, Bob!!!! We got 2 feet of snow. YIKES! I did manage to get a 45 minute trainer ride in yesterday and a 5 mile treadmill run in today... add to that a half hour or so of shoveling, not bad. Hope everyone has a great weekend! When I went to school in upstate NY we used to get hammered all the time. I live on the Connecticut shoreline now. People run scared at minor dustings. 2ft is nothing to laugh at, I actually enjoy shoveling if it is not too cold. |
| 2010-02-07 3:48 PM in reply to: #2555906 |
| NH | Subject: RE: Aaron Davidson's Group -- Closed. I enjoyed shoveling until I hit 40, now it's snow blower all the way! We've actually had a pretty light year for snow here in New Hampshire. Vacation ski week coming up in Vermont so I hope they get something before the end of February. I had a nice run and short bike for a backwards brick today. Tell us how it went Bob, your training paces have been great so I'm sure you killed it. |
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