Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 16)

So, I am in that no man's land between the end of the season, and a reasonable start time for my next training cycle. I am FORCING myself to take some time off, especially from running, and I really haven't found my bike mojo, so I'm just in the weight room right now (and loving it, getting great results already).

I'm trying to come up with a plan, both for off season and then for the season, basically starting now that involves strength and flexibility. I was going to lay off the racing, but now I am thinking about maybe training for some cold weather 5k's. Nothing crazy. Maybe a New Year's day race. 

Do you guys think that is too much, coming off of IM in september and Chicago Marathon and 1/2 Marathon in October? I am pretty much injury free...just a "niggle" in my right arch but rest should resolve that.

I've just been thinking about some of those articles I linked to a while back. One specifically mentioned masters runners should keep racing. That keeps popping into my head.

What is everyone else's plan? Right now, I've got Master's swimming pencilled in for January, nothing else in stone. Training for an early season Oly, summer sprints (1x a month) and possibly a late season HIM. Plus probably the marathon, but I'll do a truncated ramp up for that later in the season.

Looking for training plans and general overview of how you structure your offseason. Last season I didn't do anything b/c of my surgery so I am kind of clueless this year.

Q

Quincy,

I'm with you, "no man's land"!  You train so hard all season knowing you'll get a break at the end.  Then it's over, you get your break and you're like, now what do I do??

I'll be very interested to hear others' responses to this.  I have my first meeting with a local tri coach next week.  She offered to start me with an off season plan for a few months based around my particular needs.  I don't have any major issues either but my body is sending me PLENTY of signals that it's needs rest and recovery.  I look forward to hearing her ideas and will share them with the group!

I struggle so much with chilling out on the training.  I just feel so off when I'm not getting my heart rate to AT and beyond several times per week or am doing cardio sessions of just an hour or less.  I do incorporate weight training all year round and use one day as weights only/no cardio.  Perhaps that no cardio should be more than once per week for me 

I wish I had a better answer to your question, especially about the running.  I go back and forth over taking a solid block of time like weeks or months off running versus continuing to run at least a few times per week but just going slow (at which I generally fail as my overachiever personality comes out and says, c'mon!  You can go faster!).  

Hearing how others train off season was a big draw for me when you suggested this group.  Hope everyone chimes in!

Me three for "no man's land"!  That's almost always the case with me, and this year is no different -- no interest yet in indoor rides, forcing myself (aided by labrum problems) to take time off from running, hitting the pool but with zero passion.   I have to make a decision about (probably) which two of swim/lift/Yoga I can afford to pay for........but I don't seem to be moving very quickly about it.

More thoughts soon, though!

AMY -

Is she ready to help you plan a sensible (whatever that means) off-season, too?  That would probably help you.  I started with my former coach in about Feb '03, and we went through the whole tri season together with very aggressive plans, and then I went into the fall with a 10km and a marathon in my sights, but once the marathon was done on Thanksgiving weekend -- boom! -- he mostly forced me into my off-season.  I will dig out my log from then and relay to you what it consisted of, but all i can say righht now is that is was as aggressive in its recovery-focused way as was what he had me do for the preceding season.

At the time, he couched it in terms of the fact that i had a very ambitious eason planned for '04, beginning with Boston in April, then Columbia Tri in May, Eagleman in June...........and IM lake Placid in July.  I accepted it and ultimately benefitted HUGELY from it ---- but it turns out that in each of my subsequent off-seasons with him, his quite radical drop-back plan for December into January was similar to that first off-season, even though the following tri seasons were not nearly as ambitious as '04.

I KNOW all the benefits of a dedicated offseason, but i just find it hard to lay down the law on myslef, by myself.  But if your coach will do that for you, and you trust her pretty much implicitly, and can follow what she advises (without cheating too much!), then that would solve your problems of wht to do with yourself!

You asked about Yoga last week, and that would be a great way to drag yourself away from SBR stuff.  I think I mentioned at the time that Yin and some of the other more resorative Yoga forms would be best, but really -- there is no harm in Hatha, and if you are pretty flexible to begin with, even Ashtanga.   Go Yogic, Amy, go Yogic!

I don't remember if I sauid this to you in that same post, but on my own the best I can do is alternate individual-discipline off-seasons until all three have seen a half-decent (half-hearted) period of rest.  So for me, right now:

•  Since my last race on Oct 7, I have had one 80-minute ride outside, nothing inside.  If I managed to get on the bike on the trainer or rollers tonight, i could be happy with my just-completed bike "off-season"!
• I last ran about 11 days ago, and have since been laid-low by my left labrum.  while I sure don't like the reason why I am grounded from running, it nevertheless serves as my off-season for that discipline.  I will probably take another week off just to feel righteous about my run off-season, and if I can continue back consistently as of a week from now, say, I'll be down with it.
• I continue to piddle around inn the pool 2-3 times a week, and have been doing this for three weeks now.  I think that after the Oct 7 race I did one more OWS, and then retreated to the pool; so no swim off-season yet.  But if I could start back with the bikie and return to running, that would make me feel more comfortable with going swimless for a while.

Mostly, then< i do my off-season in "shifts, maybe overlapping and maybe not.  The best off-season i managed was along about now in '08, when we were in Spain for three weeks .  That was a time of zero-nada-zilcho S/B/R, not even a piddly little run.  I returned from Spain kind of energized, and definitely interested to get back to training.  So if you can get yourself to some intriguing locale for 2-3 weeks..................

Yeah, talk to your coach about this,, and let her know that your body and mind are bickering about it some.  Bicker, bicker, bicker!

FINALLY ---- You say your  body is sending you plenty of signals that it needs rest and recovery, and I'd like to know what those signals are.  (I'm sure I can empathize AND sympathize with most if not all of them!)

Steve,

Good stuff as usual!  Yes, the first part of the coaching is the off season plan to go until at least Jan. 1.  My first sprint of 2013 is late May and I have a very lofty goal so I figure the first of year will be a good time to start training!

I will try to get in as much yoga as I can.  I have to say that last night I tried yoga after swimming for the first time.  Wow, my low back and SI joints did NOT like that.  I felt very locked up and this particular instructor had us doing lots of twisting.  I had to basically just take child's pose for like 20 minutes   You know how they always say to listen to your body, take an easier pose if needed and that as long as you are breathing you're doing yoga?  Well, I tested that concept last night!

As for the body wanting rest, my knees are both hurting almost daily now--strictly behind the kneecap pain, especially after a run, bike or plyometrics (which I do in the bootcamp class I teach).  When I swim, my low back hurts after about 800 m and then hurts for a day or so, kinda like it arched too much.  And my performance is just not what it used to be, my body feels worn out.  I'm so bad at rest.  I give myself one day per week off of working out and even then I usually do yoga or pilates.  Back in 2007 I had food poisoning and missed an extra day that week.......that's the last time I remember working out less than six days in a week.....that's how bad it is!

So what are the symptoms of a labrum injury??  Sending you healing thoughts!

I wouldn't say I'm in "No Man's Land", but kinda at a quandry.  I'm rathing goal oriented, which is why I'm doing tri's again.  Just going to the gym or exercising doesn't work for me.  I need a reason.  A run, a tri, something.  Now there aren't many tri's going on.  One in Dec in Key West, but I'm only doing that if I can get the bike in the plane.  No way I'm driving from Atlanta to Key West.  And even then probably only if one of my friends is down at his house in Key West that weekend.

I need to keep working out.  I just started at the end of July, so I don't really need to take the winter off.  I was running before that, but not as much.  My running needs lots of miles and my swimming needs lots of work.  My cycling just needs time.  I've gotten off to a good start with that.  Just need to doing some cycling over the winter to not lose it and start back over.  But, I need focus, and for me that's a race to get ready for.  And there isn't one.  Sigh.

With the temps dropping I'm not wild about running in the morning, which is the time that works best for my schedule.  Get up at 5am, run, shower, eat, drive the kids in with me on the way to work.  Yeah, 40 degrees probably doesn't sound cold to many of you, but that's seems chilly for someone in Atlanta; I'm a running wimp.

Still haven't joined a masters swim team.  Times and locations just aren't the best.  Excuses, excuses.  Without a race it's just hard to get me motivated.

Right now I'm trying to focus more on the running.  I've seen good improvements this year since I've finally started to put in the time.  Used to just run a little a few days a week at best.  Now trying to get to 25 mpw and every week.  Life got in the way again this week.  Easy for that to happen.

Since I didn't run much previously I don't have the clothes.  Need to get some light weight gloves and the right warmer shirts; not sure long sleeve cotton t-shirts are the right thing for a 10 mile run.  I'm afraid if I ask at the local running shop I'll get "you really need this $100 shirt" or $200 jacket or some such.

Went riding yesterday afternoon and it was ok, but a bit cool.  Of course I was wearing tri shorts and a t-shirt.  Everyone else had at least long sleeves on; it was ~60F.  The trail was mostly in the shade and a bit of a breeze.  Seemed warm in the sun in the parking lot, guess I should have gone with the long sleeve t-shirt.  I was doing a brick and thought a long sleeve t-shirt would be a little warm on the bike and too hot on the run.  Could have switched in the middle.  Another lesson learned.  I would have melted if I was bundled up as much as some of them were, but then I was working a bit harder than they were.  And with the time change coming that's going to cut into my riding.  The Silver Comet trail closes at dusk/sunset.  May have to switch to a spin bike at LA Fitness for a little while.

I'll say that the cold temps and rain does nothing to motivate me to train, but I do have that built in "need" to get out and do... SOMEthing pretty much every day. That minimum level that keeps me sane, usually works out to 3 or so runs at least 4 miles each, and riding about 6 hours a week. The riding can be indoors -- I'm fine with that, but would prefer outdoors (and off-road if nasty out).

So even in that "no man's land" time of the year, I stay pretty active.

Got in a couple runs, and yes it was the rock plate. It's very subtle, but the forefoot is the slightest bit thicker than the heel. And maybe not the entire forefoot. Amazing how much of a difference it made. Thanks Dave!

I think I'm in exact opposite situation as most of you, as I'm coming off injuries (knees, back) that pretty much sidelined me from July 2011 through May 2012.  So I've only been training to any degree for five months and am definitely not burned out to any degree.  In fact, I'm thrilled that I'm training again. 

The problem is that my body thinks I'm headed into summer, and I'm "dressed up and no place to go", especially with regard to the bike.  I wanna go out and do a time trial right now or something.  So, I'm trying to get my hands around how to handle this coming "off" season.

My current plan is to start the 16 week couch-to-5K plan on Monday, paired with Jorge's off-season bike program on the trainer.  I also swim/lift twice a week using the swim part of one of the plans here on BT.  Lots of core work to keep my spondy in check.  It's my Frankenplan. 

I have a couple of "down" weeks in December based on a planned vacation and the holidays.  The hope/plan is to get through this 16 weeks intact and see where to go from there.  I'm debating whether to invest in Eagleman and either do the full HIM (if healthy) or downgrade to the AquaVelo (if the running doesn't come back).  Or maybe I'll just focus on a healthy-ish 2013 and do a half dozen sprints and see where that takes me.  After paying for five races and having to DNS over the past two years I'm thinking to keep the up-front investment low. 

Thoughts?

SAMANTHA and AMY -

I haven't even gotten my act together enough to congratulation either of you on Detroit half marathon.  You both had terrific times, with stellar age-group placements, and of course I find it highly amusing that your times were so close to each other.  Natural-born training partners, it would seem!

Anyhow, here's a belated double-dose of congratulations for the two of you!

SAMANTHA -

Do you know any of the relief techniques for stitches?  The heavy and loud exhalation on each footstrike on the side the stitch is on? (Most people get them on the right.)  The upward digging of fingers at the bottom of the diaphragm?  Thosea re two that have worked for me in the past -- and I'm lucky, i guess, that my problem with stitches seems to be waaaaay in the past, as in probably 12 or 13 years ago.  (Hopefully, you too will "outgrow" this phase!)

I think there is one more technique.......but I can't remember it right now.  Ooops!

PATTI -

Very relieved to see your post, as I had been concerned, and even more pleased that you are sounding good -- almost buoyant, even!  It's fortunate that you managed to snag a motel spot, and I guess the hope is that insurance will eventually cover it?  And I guess even if they don't, it's money well spent if it provides you with some creature comforts.  I can't imagine too many runners who have lost power to their homes are out there doing runs, huh?

May your routine and diet return to normal soon so that you can return to being a "nice person"!  (From our perspective here, you're just as sweet as you've always been!)

AMY -

Thank you for the list of woes you are experiencing; many people are not quite so transparent when it comes to divulging what they are doing to themselves!

Anyhow, i will be back later with some thoughts on that, as well as some thoughts on the labrum.  The injection a couple days ago was typically highly unpleasant, really almost an "ordeal", and I'm not sure how effective it was.  But more, later!

MIKE -

More coming to you later, too, but for now I'll just say that I fully understand your approach of keeping "up-front investment low".  I have a deep history of eaten race fees, and I could summon both the courage and the memory, i would make a list of how many races I have beailed on, and the cost of doing so.

Back when, i used to get my next-season's schedule in place by December, with races paid-for and all......and could get agitated when a race didn't open registration until January or February, say.  Even if it wasn't a sell-out kind of race, i just like dhaving it all booked and paid-in-full. 

Now I go the opposite way, and will even opt for a late fee the week before, or even day-of, rather than pay $90, say, and eat it all.  That means that I effectively exclude myself from a lot of races I love and want to do again, but for those that open early and sell out fast -- and cost lots!! -- I don't see a financially-responsible option.

Eagleman is a great case-in-point.  I did it in '03 and '04, and it's my HIM PR, and the course is blast (except when it's a blast furnace)...........but since it became a WTC property, it is just way too pricey for me to sign up for so early and then risk having to bail on.  Bob Vigorito used to be great about offering big refunds, and late at that, and he still does so for Columbia, but WTC ties his hands when it comes to Eagleman, and so it's not much of a refund and doens't really allow accommodate people who get their injuries late in their training.  GRRRR!!! only begins to cover my thoughts about WTC!

As you probably know, you are blessed to be in an area where there are scores of smaller races run by good independent race companies, and that don't cost an arm and a leg to enter.  Set-Up now has, and continues to expand, its Maryland Race Series, and Piranha serves MD and DE and NJ quite well.  And then there are those "one-and-out" races, meaning it's a RD with a single race (or maybe two), but that he clearly loves and puts on with immaculate attention to detail.

Gotta go now, will return later.

AMY -

Here are a few ways to view your injuries and time off from running (less so from swimming, but.....):

1. As an injury (or injuries) persist or worsen for me, especially in the off-season, I ask myself the following question:  If I had an important race in a few days, am I in any shape to give it my best shot?  Nine times out of ten the answer will be a resounding NO!!!! --- and that's what it takes to get me to give the injury (injuries) the proper rest, or at least more rest.  It took me a number of years to figure this out, and I rally regret it took so long because.........
2. Invariably, my injuries require more down-time than I would've taken if I had either rested when I was hurting, or taken a decent period of non-running "recovery" as part of my end-of-season Transition phase.
3. I try to view being injured through a lens of "loss of control", which doesn't take much of an effort -- I DO feel an acute loss of control, especially if I can see myself as the architect of my own disaster, and that just makes me crazy.  it is far worse than the "Why me??" and "Woe is me!" responses, and so one of the fringe benefits of being more cautious, and more rsponsive to what my body is telling me, is that I don't often feel to much loss of control.

For that last one, simply being proactive about an injury (or even a niggle or wonk) requires Control -- and suddenly my perspective and athletic world view have shifted dramatically.  This is very huge for me, maybe because over the years I just spent far, far, far too many days/weeks/months feeling out of control about my body and where it was taking me. 

Anyhow, i don't know if that (issues of control, as they might pertain to your body) applies to you at all, but if so, it might be worth thinking about.  Just a thought!

I'll be back in a bit!

AMY again -

On to those wonky knees and sticky back!

I can't remember the name of the problem that affecets the back of knees, and a quick look through my several running injury books doesn't help.  I want to say popliteal (sp?) tendon, but I think that might be on the lateral side (but towards the back), as opposed to directly in back.  I'll keep looking!

But assuming that what you are feeling is similar to times the backs of my knees have bothered me, it is an annoyance but not necessarily a "deal-breaker".  Is that about how it seems to you?  I guess one thing to look at is whether or not it affects your gait; thoughts?  I have to say, though, that my sporadic episodes of back-of-knee probs haven't lasted too long, certainly not to the tune of "both hurting almost daily now".  

Not to beat a tried old drum here........but I'd take that as a clear sign to back off until you are pain-free in both knees, and for a few consecutive days.  And then it would be what my sports doc refers to as "feathering" my run training, meaning ever-so-gradually building back distance and intensity.  (Was that sound I just thought I heard you gulping??)

As for the back problem with swimming.....hmmmm.   Do you have any sense that you are, in fact, arching your back too much?  I'm trying to picture it here, and I wonder two things:  (1) do you swim with your head raised, maybe doing sighting straight ahead as sopposed to the side, and (2) do you have a very strong kick that clearly breaks the surface?  Any thoughts on either of those?

A further idea would be hand entry and arm extension, wherein you possibly enter moderately deep, and then upon extension, swoop your hand towards the surface.  This is probably something you can check on your own, just watching what your hands do as they prepare to exit the water and begin the recovery phase of the stroke.  I'm just wondering that, if they are deep and then slice upward before their exit, that might require (or precipitate) an arching of your back. 

A last thought is to think about arm turnover, as in howe many strokes you take to make it from one wall to the other.  if you are from the Total Immersion school of swimming, you probably put a premium of taking as few strokes as possible.  That is great for people who have a good kick, but for those who don't, they often have to work at saty buoyant.........and that can involve more core........but if their core is either not strong or isn't engaged properly...............then the effort can be transfered to the back.   I'm kind of guessing your core is quite good (bootcamp, you know), but if you don't engage it the right way when you swim, then the back might bear the burden.  Just more random thoughts!

A final thought is to try a swim with a pull-buoy and see how your back responds.  If you have the P.B. wedged as high as you can, that will serve to raise your mid-portion a fair bit, and maybe that will alleviate some of the back-based discomfort.   Give it a try!

Finally, get creative with yoru training.  All the bootcamp stuff you do has to be very good, at laest as far as moving your various ranges of motion away from where they are with SBR.  And if you really require and thrive on maximum activity, then go for the more strenuous forms of Yoga - Ashtanga, Bikram, Vinyasa Flow, "Hot" classes.  As for the back, i am sure that the owner of the Yoga studio I attend once said that twists are very good for back problems, so give a couple a try at home.  Seated or standing, or maybe even supine, makes no difference, i don't think.  Go into them gingerly --- and don't try to do a 180 with your torso, okay?  And if there is any gnarly twinges of discomfort......you know what to do without further ado, right??

WAYNE -

Insightful post!  You are like many people, who need a fair bit of external motivation, and for you it soudns as if races work best.  There is nothing at all wrong with that, especially for you who lives relatively close to a place -- that would be FL -- where the race season never really ends.  The trick is to get there at minimal cost.....and for that I don't have any good answer for you. 

BUT!  If you can find maybe just one race -- a "bridge" race that will get you across this off-season gap -- that might just last you until the tri season migrates up closer to home; ate Feb/early March, maybe?

I agree with your that you don't have to fuss too much over an off-season, given your late start to the '12 season.  And reading your concerns about keeping your edge and not letting progress stop and need to be re-acquired later on, I support your plan to just carry on with whatever you can fit in.  Unless there are injuries; yes/no?

Try to get okay about cold(er)-weather running.  You do NOT need expensive stuff, but should be looking at tech fabrics as opposedf to cotton.  It will help your chill-aversion to have clothing that wicks mositure away from your body, and cotton is terrible at that.  Almost every running shoe company now carries a full line of running apparel, an just go to a running store and look for a long-sleeved top that is all-synthetic, and maybe labelled "performance".  Lightweight gloves are very good to have, and although i never wear cotton anything when doing workouts....I make the one exception with standard cotton running gloves.  But i also have a pair of thin tech ones that I will wear under running mitts on very cold days, and I guess sometimes I wear them instead of the cotton ones, just alone.

A third bit of apparel would be running tights.  They make a huge difference for me, and tech ones are light enough to be unobtrusive, yet stay work great at repelling wind.  I wear bottoms under mine, and that's more than enough to keep me warm even when it's 20-below.  Seriously.  But it also works when it's just rigth around freezing, and so the range of temps that can be accommodated by tights over tri shorts is really impressive.

You say life got in the way this week vis-avis another 25 mpw week........and I say that's probably a good thing.  25 mpw is pretty significant, and your body will do well with a slight "down' week avery third or fourth week.  Never fully lose sight of the fact that some of the best performance gains and adaptations happen during rest phases (even just a day off will help), so you dont have to go into too much angst when you miss some time/distance/intensity.  In fact, when it ahppnes, give yourself a pat on the back!

Finally, let your own body be your guide whne it comes to how you dress.  You give a good example of that at the end of your post, and I'll just add that I am soemone who dresses far more minimally than practically any other winter runner up here.  I don't have a problem with sweating too much, but rather it is just being kind of averse to being overdressed when running.  So for you, just experiment with a few top combinations and see what regulates your body the best.  Happy shopping!

DONTO -

Do you just like the quote from Suzuki Roshi......or have you spent time "studying" him?

Thank you Steve!!!!

I am pretty convinced now especially after that half that the side stitches come from eating and/or drinking too much before the race.  I think I go a bit overboard as I am worried about not having enough energy or not being hydrated enough, and this might even be the day before the race as well as the morning of the race.  I have literally gotten side stitches in every triathlon, and it's really annoying!  I had tried to eat/drink less, but apparently I went wrong!  For the past race, I didn't think taking in a couple cups of water 5-6 hours before a race when I woke up in the middle of the night would be problematic, but I think that's what did me in... My stomach was feeling a bit heavy/off in the couple of hours leading up to the race... I pretty much KNEW I was going to be getting side stitches during the race...

I think I have tried nearly everything in terms of trying to alleviate it during the race, including the exhaling thing.  I've heard both exhale on the right step and exhale on the left step.  I don't think that really helped me.  What has helped me though, at least temporarily, is putting the fingers over the part of the side stitch, and when I press on it for a couple of minutes, and then let go, there's temporary relief... although then later it still usually comes back.  (And I get sick of holding my fingers there.)  Maybe I'll need to try the opposite side next time too!  But hopefully there is no next time...

SAMANTHA -

Yes, hopefully there will not be anext time!  I think i said that I haven't had an episode in years, and while that's true --- I have no idea why it resolved itself.  i underwent no dramatic changes, didn't enter an exhaustive exercise program to strengthen the diaphragm.  I guess i think it strengthened on its own, just kind of got in synch with my breathing patterns, or wharever.  Maybe the same'll happen for you!

The final technique is a very simple (but difficult!) --- either slow down markedly, or just stop for a moment or three.  This should be with an eye to getting breathing under control, to let the controlled breath override what the diaphragm wants to do.  I guess if you get a stitch during a training run, that's a good time to give slowing or stopping a shot.  I have a very vague recollection of slowing due to a stitch during Covered Bridges H-M in '99, i think it was.......but how much and for how long is lost in the mists of time!