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2008-02-19 9:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
Hey, folks!

Sorry I haven't been around - work is killing me right now...lots of travel. Which brings me to my question - I'm trying so hard to follow my training plan for the half-mary (26 days and counting!), but this weekend I think I've hit an obstacle and I'm trying to figure out how to maximize my efforts.

I am out of town Thursday-Sunday and I'm scheduled for a long run ~10 miles this weekend, which isn't going to happen between conference activities and the fact that I'll be in Des Moines. I think I can probably take about 1 hour each day to work out - can I "cover" my 10 mile run by doing 2 days of 5 miles? I know it isn't the same, but is this the best choice or is there another way I should schedule my training? I can't do my long run on Thursday (flying) or when I get back Sunday (too late) or Monday (work).

Thanks!

Kristen


2008-02-19 9:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

I looked into POSE when I was having a lot of running pains and made the mistake of practicing it on my long run (13m at the time) which was a big mistake.  I was in so much shin pain the next day!  I am sure POSE or Chi running will help some like TI does for swimming, but it is not necessary IMO.

If you are really interested in getting feedback on your form, I would suggest getting video taped by a PT or running coach in your area.  It really is the only way they can assess the big and little things that you might need to improve.  For example, it is easy to see if you swing your arms across your body (bad!), but it is not so easy to see your leg swing unless it is in slow motion.  Both can be important to improving form.  I have a great PT and have been videod many times which is very insightful.  Same goes for swimming (although I hate seeing those!)

If you don't want to go through all of that you can have a running friend or local running store employee watch you and give advice.  Easy things to change are arm swing, tight shoulders and hands, and overstriding.  Hard things to change without a professional are foot strike, hip position, head position, etc.

Make sense?



Edited by SSMinnow 2008-02-19 9:52 AM
2008-02-19 9:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
kimmitri408 - 2008-02-18 3:17 PM

It's Monday crew....What's everyone's goal(s) for the week?

Anyone else?? 

My goals are as follows:

1. Get my mom situated in her new Memory Care facility and not have it drive both of us crazy.

2. 1 interval work-out (Done) and 1 22m on Saturday

3.  2 bikes of 20-30m each

4.  4 swims with yardage of at least 1000 for the day. Note I am not pinning myself to a single yardage set goal.  That has been playing with my pysche.

5. Stop eating crap now that I am back from vacation. Why is that so hard?

2008-02-19 10:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

enders_shadow - 2008-02-19 10:48 AM Hey, folks! Sorry I haven't been around - work is killing me right now...lots of travel. Which brings me to my question - I'm trying so hard to follow my training plan for the half-mary (26 days and counting!), but this weekend I think I've hit an obstacle and I'm trying to figure out how to maximize my efforts. I am out of town Thursday-Sunday and I'm scheduled for a long run ~10 miles this weekend, which isn't going to happen between conference activities and the fact that I'll be in Des Moines. I think I can probably take about 1 hour each day to work out - can I "cover" my 10 mile run by doing 2 days of 5 miles? I know it isn't the same, but is this the best choice or is there another way I should schedule my training? I can't do my long run on Thursday (flying) or when I get back Sunday (too late) or Monday (work). Thanks! Kristen

This stuff happens.  While not best, 2x5mi runs is better than nothing.  I doubt you would loose fitness by doing this.  The only thing you're missing is that key "long run" which conditions your body and legs to be able to handle the distance.  Maybe so they're not so far apart, try pulling next week's long run more toward the middle of the week.  But DON'T do two long runs next week!

2008-02-19 11:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

Life happens.  You have been training well all along so don't get too wound up (easy to say, hard to do).  Couple of questions, is this your longest long run before your event? or do you have another one scheduled? if you have another one in the plan, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  If you don't,  I would consider a two week taper and do the 10m the earliest possible day of the week without screwing up the rest of your plan.

2008-02-19 12:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
SSMinnow - 2008-02-19 12:59 PM

Life happens.  You have been training well all along so don't get too wound up (easy to say, hard to do).  Couple of questions, is this your longest long run before your event? or do you have another one scheduled? if you have another one in the plan, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  If you don't,  I would consider a two week taper and do the 10m the earliest possible day of the week without screwing up the rest of your plan.



No - I have one more the weekend of 3/1 (10-12), then a shorter long run the weekend before the race (3/8). (And I did a 10 miler a few weeks ago (last week was a drop-back week in the plan, but before that)...so I'm probably worrying for nothing. I think I'll go with the 2 fives and hope for the best.

Thanks to both you & Brian for the advice - you're right, easy to say "be calm" - much harder to do...this is my first time actually following a plan. I think the fact that I have something to follow makes me more uptight, but I think it is also pushing me harder, so I'm going to keep with plans. I just haven't figured out how to handle the inevitable obstacles.


2008-02-19 2:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
Gosh Kristin, you are overprepared don't give it a second thought.  Worry about other stuff, like race weather, your outfit, how much to drink, the bathroom situation and......no issue.
2008-02-20 8:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

Another question!

My indoor tri is next sunday.  What amendments should I make to my schedule next week?  any kind of tapering?  should i just rest the day before? 

2008-02-20 8:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

If this were an A race for you, I would say a lighter load would be in order.  Given that it isn't, I would treat the week normally and do something easier the day before (or nothing).  For running or duathlon races, I do a few easy running miles to shake out the jitters.   I would also consider adding some good stretching to your plan next week.  Oh, and lay out all your stuff so you make sure you don't forget anything. 

Based on your latest swimming work outs, I think you will do great.

2008-02-20 9:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
SSMinnow - 2008-02-20 9:46 AM

If this were an A race for you, I would say a lighter load would be in order.  Given that it isn't, I would treat the week normally and do something easier the day before (or nothing).  For running or duathlon races, I do a few easy running miles to shake out the jitters.   I would also consider adding some good stretching to your plan next week.  Oh, and lay out all your stuff so you make sure you don't forget anything. 

Based on your latest swimming work outs, I think you will do great.

What she said...

2008-02-20 9:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

I did a Lactate Threshold test on my bike last night.  This is the first time I've done this since beginning tri-training two years ago.  I still beleive that during the first year or so, just time in the saddle (T.I.T.S.) is what the focus should be.  That's pretty much all I did and brought my speed up to 21.3 mph on an olympic distance triathlon.

I plan to start racing and competing at the local level - get some age group hardware at a local olympic distance tri, which means getting down toward 2:25.  The last two seasons have been about enjoying myself, finishing and learning.  I think when one makes the decision to go from doing triathlons to racing triathlons is when you should consider things like coaching, LT tests, etc...

It's easy to get hung up on all the technical mumbo jumbo.  Just start slow and have fun for the first couple of years.  Having fun will result in better consistency and we know that consistency is probably the best thing for making progress and staying healthy.

Just because so-and-so has a power meter, Garmin, coach and rocket boosters doesn't mean you need them too.  In fact, MOST people do just fine without all this stuff...  Just sayin'...



2008-02-20 12:56 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
mbmoran2 - 2008-02-20 9:14 AM

I did a Lactate Threshold test on my bike last night.  This is the first time I've done this since beginning tri-training two years ago.  I still beleive that during the first year or so, just time in the saddle (T.I.T.S.) is what the focus should be.  That's pretty much all I did and brought my speed up to 21.3 mph on an olympic distance triathlon.

I plan to start racing and competing at the local level - get some age group hardware at a local olympic distance tri, which means getting down toward 2:25.  The last two seasons have been about enjoying myself, finishing and learning.  I think when one makes the decision to go from doing triathlons to racing triathlons is when you should consider things like coaching, LT tests, etc...

It's easy to get hung up on all the technical mumbo jumbo.  Just start slow and have fun for the first couple of years.  Having fun will result in better consistency and we know that consistency is probably the best thing for making progress and staying healthy.

Just because so-and-so has a power meter, Garmin, coach and rocket boosters doesn't mean you need them too.  In fact, MOST people do just fine without all this stuff...  Just sayin'...

Yeah, what he said! 

I did not get a running coach until I made the decision to try to qualify for Boston.  It made a HUGE difference in my training and race results.  I am not going for that in triathlon.  I really want to keep it fun and light and about spending time with my new passions, biking and swimming.   I don't want it to become a giant focus on PRs (like running is today) cause that ain't always what it is all about! At least for me. Just sayin'....

2008-02-20 2:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
Thanks for the info for pre-race.  I figured I'd be okay with just resting the day before.  I'm a dork, so I like a lot of that technical stuff.  My concerns with running are based on the fact that I have had knee problems (one directly from running) and am scared I'm gonna jack myself up again if I don't fix my form.  I want to find a coach or clinic or something around here to get in and hopefully get that fixed soon.
2008-02-22 6:13 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

Happy Friday Everyone!

I originally decided to do the Danskin Tri as my first knowing the swim was a 750 which sort of freaked me out.  I know they have a lot of support which is why I picked it.  Last night, I found a tri with a 400 swim that you can virtually walk if you needed to (they advertise that walkers are welcome). It is only about 70m from my house.  As my first this sounds appealing.  Any downsides you can think of?

I got video taped for my swim a few weeks ago and reviewed it last night. YUCK.  Amazing how you look on tape compared to what you think you look like.  The benefit is I can really see some big issues to work on.  Still have 4 months to get things right before that first event.

What is on tap this weekend?

2008-02-22 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

Happy Friday!

 

I'd say if you feel more comfy with the 400 swim, then go with that.  There is always time to do a longer swim sprint later in the year.

 

On tap for me this weekend...training, homework, and packing.  Exciting right? LOL  It's freezing raining here now, so it's a good weekend to just stay indoors.  Last night's swim practice with the team was very good.  I got excellent tips on my swimming form and kicking (which I've mentioned before is a weak spot for me).  It was funny b/c we were in the three lanes right next to the edge, where the life guard was sitting.  So as I swam, the lifeguard would call out pointers to me about what he saw me doing wrong from above while the other guy was in the water and looking at my form from the side.  So I got completely analyzed from all angles.  I am excited to get in the pool again and put what I learned to use!

2008-02-22 7:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

This is my weekend to work...My husband remains in Myrtle Beach chasing that eluusive white ball around in the grass.  My kids are away with the youth group.  I took a spin class tonight because it was less work than dragging a tarp in to set the trainer and bike on--plus I wanted to do a strength set and if I did the aero base builder I wouldn't have time to do anything else (I can't stop exercise videos of any type in the middle--just go through them...the aero video is 2 hrs long) I got the strength set in too

Planning on a run tomorrow after work, hope I can get that done before picking up the girls.  Sunday is my toss up day--depends on what I want to get done after another day shift. 



2008-02-23 4:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
hope everyone is having a great weekend!
2008-02-24 4:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

Brian

I was able to get in three shorter bike rides this week.  This got me to thinking about how to approach the length of each ride versus how I approach running.  When prepping for a marathon, my longest run is 24m, with the majority in the 20-22m range.  If my longest bike event this summer is 20m, do I need to be biking 30 miles or more per time or can 20m per time be sufficient? 

I do have a fall duathlon that has a 32m bike leg so maybe you can address that too.

Thanks,

Suzy

2008-02-25 10:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
SSMinnow - 2008-02-24 5:59 PM

Brian

I was able to get in three shorter bike rides this week.  This got me to thinking about how to approach the length of each ride versus how I approach running.  When prepping for a marathon, my longest run is 24m, with the majority in the 20-22m range.  If my longest bike event this summer is 20m, do I need to be biking 30 miles or more per time or can 20m per time be sufficient? 

I do have a fall duathlon that has a 32m bike leg so maybe you can address that too.

Thanks,

Suzy

You definitely want to overdistance the bike once a week.  Other rides can be in the 15-25mi range as you progress.  2-3 rides per week to be fine.  3-4 rides per week to kick some butt.

You're less prone to overuse injury on the bike (provided fit is good).  Still, build up to the longer bike ride.  Seeing as you're already riding 20 miles at at time, you can safely add 5mi on the weekly long ride, perhaps stalling (prob don't need to drop back - just stall) every 4th week.  No need to go over 35mi for your 20-mile race, nor over 45mi for your 32-mile race.

You want to come off that bike ready to race your run.  You're such a strong runner, you want to feel somewhat fresh coming off the bike to leverage that strength.  By riding 35-45 miles, the races will feel somewhat easy.  Keep those long rides mostly in Z2.

Add some bricks (2-5mi transition runs) as the race gets closer.  Even add some shorter bricks (15-20mi/2-3mi) with some race pace riding/running the couple weeks leading into the race.  Also, nothing longer than race-distance the 7-10 days prior to your race - just not necessary and you want to be fresh and fast.

Before my 1st Oly (25-mile bike), I did long rides of 28, 33, 38 and 42 miles the month prior to my race.  My 10k run segment ended up pretty close to my 1/2M pace (8:00/mi) at the time.  Before my 1st HIM, I had a few 50+ mile rides and one 70-mile ride.  Still, I could stand to bike more.  However, I anticipate being deficient on bike fitness and more run-focused until qualifying for Boston.



Edited by mbmoran2 2008-02-26 9:58 AM
2008-02-26 10:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
I haven't been this sick in a very long time, definitely not since starting training.  I'm supposed to have a prescription for oral steroids called in soon to start. Assuming I feel well enough to do anything this week how should I adjust?  I'm thinking walk/run interval just enough to finish my challenge goal on Thursday morning (2.8 miles) starting off with walking a few minutes to see how that feels before trying to run even 30-45 seconds at a low pace.  I'm going to stay away from the pool becuse I think my breathing is bad enough without adding water! Maybe a light trainer ride at low cadence later this week too. Does that sound okay or should I scale it back even more?

Edited by zipp1 2008-02-26 10:06 AM
2008-02-26 10:40 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

zipp1 - 2008-02-26 11:05 AM I haven't been this sick in a very long time, definitely not since starting training. I'm supposed to have a prescription for oral steroids called in soon to start. Assuming I feel well enough to do anything this week how should I adjust? I'm thinking walk/run interval just enough to finish my challenge goal on Thursday morning (2.8 miles) starting off with walking a few minutes to see how that feels before trying to run even 30-45 seconds at a low pace. I'm going to stay away from the pool becuse I think my breathing is bad enough without adding water! Maybe a light trainer ride at low cadence later this week too. Does that sound okay or should I scale it back even more?

 

I think that's a good idea.  If you are running and feel like you can't breathe then just walk more.  No pool definitely and maybe a light bike ride.  Just listen to your body and you should be fine.  If you can't go on, your body will tell you...well at least mine does! 



2008-02-26 12:10 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

zipp1 - 2008-02-26 11:05 AM I haven't been this sick in a very long time, definitely not since starting training.  I'm supposed to have a prescription for oral steroids called in soon to start. Assuming I feel well enough to do anything this week how should I adjust?  I'm thinking walk/run interval just enough to finish my challenge goal on Thursday morning (2.8 miles) starting off with walking a few minutes to see how that feels before trying to run even 30-45 seconds at a low pace.  I'm going to stay away from the pool becuse I think my breathing is bad enough without adding water! Maybe a light trainer ride at low cadence later this week too. Does that sound okay or should I scale it back even more?

First, second and third priorities are rest, rest and rest.  After getting 12+ hours of sleep and feeling like you need to do something then walking or a 30 minute Z1 spin would be OK.  If possible, try to do this outside for fresh air and the mental health benefits of getting out of the house.

You don't want to jeopardize several week sof training by coming down with Bronchitis, pneumonia or some more resistant infection.   A few days or even a week of rest is nothing in the grand scheme of things.  Missing a month would take a huge toll on your personal life as well as your training.  The rule is no training if the symptoms are below the neck:

  • Sore throat and runny nose = OK
  • Cough, fever, achey body = NOT OK


Edited by mbmoran2 2008-02-26 12:14 PM
2008-02-26 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
Thanks, it's all  I could do to empty a dishwasher today...I was thinking later this week at the most--but I'm not sure.  Just trying to figure out how to ease back when I am well enough.  I can skip the 10 K if I had to(Kristen, I'd still meet up with you and Jen b/c I'd go watch and pass out water or something), really want to do the half mary so that's my real focus--trying to get back well enough to do that in April.
2008-02-26 12:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full

While I don't always adhere to the below the neck philosophy, I do think it is good advice if you are feeling really lousy. When you work out too hard while sick you zap your immune system even more.   Take it one day at a time and see how things go.  A few lost days will not kill your fitness.  Since your A race is the half, you can adjust your training plan accordingly.  If you do start feeling well enough to attempt the 10K you could use it to test other things--your half pace, drinking while running, a strong 5K at the end.....just a thought.

Rest up and don't fret.

2008-02-27 7:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Brian and the Tri Tarts Group - Full
Morning! (Sorry I've been MIA - lurking mostly, that whole work thing, y'know)

I have a potentially stupid question about racing & HR. Pretty much all of my training now is HR - which is working out great for me. But now what happens when I race? Do I pay attention to HR? Or just run run run run run? Does it matter if it's a long race vs. a short race? (Do I pay attention to HR during my half-mary but ignore it during the sprint tri?) I like to listen to the cheep cheep cheep of my HRM when I run, but I assume that's quite irritating to do during a race.

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again - training was so much easier when I didn't know what I was doing.

Have a great day!
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