Beer Drinker Appreciation Society (BDAS) - Open (Page 17)

Originally posted by Moonrocket Gretchen- what do you think on indoor track vs treadmill? I hate the treadmill and have been considering checking out the track at out rec center. It would add about a 15 minute commute- so it's not worth it unless it is less boring. You can watch basket and volleyball while running though...

Originally posted by Moonrocket

Gretchen- what do you think on indoor track vs treadmill? I hate the treadmill and have been considering checking out the track at out rec center. It would add about a 15 minute commute- so it's not worth it unless it is less boring. You can watch basket and volleyball while running though...

Originally posted by adempsey10

 

This is somewhat accurate. Perhaps its time for a small crash course in HR training since there are many new faces this year. (zone 2 is actually around 65% of LTHR)

Basics of HR training:

1) Never use any kind of age based calculation to determine max hr or training zones (e.g. 220-age) HR zones are based largely on fitness and genetics. These kinds of calculations do not work. Don't even worry about max HR. It's incredibly difficult to determine. You have to basically train yourself in order to be able to do it. Most triathletes don't do enough high intensity training to even be able to sustain the kinds of efforts required to elevate the heart rate to max. Besides it doesn't really tell you much (unless you're interested in HR reserve, i.e. difference between resting and max, which is nice but not really useful to training.) 

2) There is a difference between running LTHR and cycling LTHR (LTHR = lactate threshold heart rate. It is often considered to be your average heart for a 20 minute fitness test. I'll go into that more below). You use different muscles in different ways during cycling and running and depending on the conditioning of those muscles will determine how efficiently you can process oxygen. Someone who rides a lot but doesn't run very much (like me) will have a better LTHR for cycling than running. 

3) To determine zones, a 20-30 min test is usually used. Joe Friel's test (in the Training Bibles) usually wants you to take the average of the last 20minutes of an all out 30min effort. I prefer to take the middle 20 (5-25min region) because people tend to start increasing their output towards the end of a test and this usually skews the average upward a little (when in fact a more accurate reading would skew your average lower). *update* To determine zones from the number you get as your LTHR, you need find a calculator. Personally I like Joe Friel's running zones and Coggan and Allen's cycling zones. If you have Training Peaks, you can plug the number in and it will give you the exact HR values. Otherwise you can google search, 'joe friel's running/cycling HR zones' or something along those lines and find the percentages of LTHR for each zone and work it out yourself.

4) The common practice for endurance athletes is lots of zone 2 work. Joe Friel is a big proponent of this. Unfortunately it requires a significant amount of time and yields very low results. Once you hit about 1.5-2 hours of zone 2 riding/running, there is no point in continuing to do it. Doing 2 hours of Z2 week after week will not make you a better rider/runner. Z2 efforts rely on volume. You need to continually increase the length of time you do Z2 efforts in order for them to have any effect. If you don't increase volume regularly, you'll actually start to detrain and will get slower. Big Z2 endurance plans are really only good for top end athletes who need to eek out the last few watts to reach their physiological potential. Most age groupers are relatively under developed and will see much better results with other types of training. 

5) What other types of training? Sweet spot training. The 'sweet spot' is roughly 80-95% of LTHR. This is the best type of workout to do if you are a time crunched athlete (i.e. often have less than 2 hours to ride the bike or run). Start with 10-12 minute intervals keeping your HR in this range. 5minute rest interval in between. Work up to 20minute intervals with 7minutes of rest in between (rest = running/riding easy or zone 1/2). This will yield the highest amount of endurance and speed/strength. 

6) Cardiac drift! The problem with HR training is a phenomenon called cardiac drift. This happens when you do a long or hard workout. Even though your speed/power/etc stays the same your HR gradually starts to climb. This is why HR with power (on the bike) or GAP (grade adjusted pace on the run) is most beneficial. If you're using a trainer, you can work around this by get your HR up to the target for the interval and checking your speed or cadence. Once you've done that, keep an eye on HR towards the end of the workout and keep an eye on cadence and speed. If your HR starts to elevate but your cad/spd is the same, don't back off to stay 'in the zone' just keep going. You can do the same on the treadmill for running. As for outdoors, the only way to do this is to use a power meter or GAP running watch. *Grade adjusted pace basically tells you what your pace would be if you were running on flat ground (it uses an algorithm based on the current incline of the terrain your running on, which is usually determined by an onboard alitimeter, and your current pace). It's a bit like power for running because its an objective measurement. 

7) Never compare HRs with other people. It's not an objective measure of fitness. Some people operate with very low HRs, others with high HRs. HR is only useful as a relative measurement. I.e. if you run/ride faster at the same HR and your perceived effort is the same, you have gained fitness. If your pace is slower at the same HR than it was a week ago (for example) and your perceived effort is greater (i.e. it feels harder) then you have either lost fitness or are fatigued. 

8) Don't bother using HR if you are doing high intensity intervals lasting less than 3 minutes. HR lags behind too much to be of any use in these types of situations. 

Feel free to ask questions. That's all I can think of for now. 

Originally posted by aviatrix802

21/24 with a 30 min ride immediately followed by a run.
PT!

Originally posted by Qua17

Hi BDAS -

I hope you are all having a great week and getting in lots of great work outs. It's time to check in our goals and think about how we can use the weekend to accomplish what we have yet to get done.

So the question is - What are you doing this weekend to move you closer to your goals?

Originally posted by aviatrix802



Recently - due to a knee injury last year - I started doing a little run/walking per the Galloway program. I run a mile, walk 30 sec-1 minute and do that for the duration. No issues. I normally will do 2-3 runs during the week at 3, maybe 4 miles then do a longer run on the weekend. I do one speed workout during the week and make sure my long run is an easy pace. You have more experience running than I do in terms of racing - I ran to stay in shape for soccer, basketball, and softball and it wasn't until the last 15 years did i start entering races.

Oh, the other thing i've done is go to a PT who works in correcting posture and muscle imbalances. I found out I have weak glute meds and run slightly sideways so was using too much right adductor and quads to run - fatigued and my knee would hurt. I get swelling around my IT band on the outside of my right knee - big enough pockets they used cortisone to bring the swelling down.

Originally posted by Qua17 One more thing: Last year, we had some fun creating a BDAS Playlist on Spotify and I thought we'd do it again. A couple of thoughts: Let's shoot for 10 songs per person Be sure to post the songs you have added to the forum and be sure to let us know if there is any meaning behind them I will try to use clean versions so your kids won't start talking like mine : ) If you want to dedicate a song to a fellow BDASers - feel free to embrace your own Kasey Kasem. Have fun with this! https://open.spotify.com/user/1228926622/playlist/6JAN0dzh8DfEnsgTIJ...

Originally posted by Qua17 Hi BDAS - I hope you are all having a great week and getting in lots of great work outs. It's time to check in our goals and think about how we can use the weekend to accomplish what we have yet to get done. So the question is - What are you doing this weekend to move you closer to your goals?

Originally posted by Hook'em

Is there a specific playlist I should be searching for?  I signed up with an account, but can't find a BDAS group or playlist.