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2011-01-27 7:07 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Graham, best of luck today at your dr appt!!! I hope you get full clearance!

Gary, nicely done, my friend. IMx2 is impressive!


2011-01-27 7:10 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

Morning everyone.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my diet and how to improve it. I've been pretty good at keeping my total calories at a level I think it should be but I am still not seeing the results I would like. So last night I decided to declare war on fat. I did some checking and according to the US nutritional guidlines, based on a 2,000 cal diet, a person should consume about 65 grams of fat a day. I think that is way high. I think I could set a goal of 10 or 15 grams a day. What do you think? What would be a good realistic goal for me to set as an average amount of fat consumed over the course of the next month?



Edited by x_caliber50 2011-01-27 7:11 AM
2011-01-27 7:32 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
x_caliber50 - 2011-01-27 7:10 AM

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my diet and how to improve it. I've been pretty good at keeping my total calories at a level I think it should be but I am still not seeing the results I would like. So last night I decided to declare war on fat. I did some checking and according to the US nutritional guidlines, based on a 2,000 cal diet, a person should consume about 65 grams of fat a day. I think that is way high. I think I could set a goal of 10 or 15 grams a day. What do you think? What would be a good realistic goal for me to set as an average amount of fat consumed over the course of the next month?


Mark, while the avg might be a bit high I believe what you propose is too low.  Your body does need a certain amount of fat and as an athlete your nutritional requirements are often higher/different from the avg person.  Reducing fat in your diet doesn't necessarily mean reducing weight.  Are you on a 2000 cal/day diet now?  I measure in at 2100 calories at 6ft, ~182lbs.  If you are then it may be time to look at what you are eating along with the calorie count.  More veggies, lean meats, etc.  You may have done this but if you are not getting proper results then you might be missing something.
2011-01-27 8:06 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

GaryRM - 2011-01-27 7:32 AM
x_caliber50 - 2011-01-27 7:10 AM

I've been doing a lot of thinking about my diet and how to improve it. I've been pretty good at keeping my total calories at a level I think it should be but I am still not seeing the results I would like. So last night I decided to declare war on fat. I did some checking and according to the US nutritional guidlines, based on a 2,000 cal diet, a person should consume about 65 grams of fat a day. I think that is way high. I think I could set a goal of 10 or 15 grams a day. What do you think? What would be a good realistic goal for me to set as an average amount of fat consumed over the course of the next month?


Mark, while the avg might be a bit high I believe what you propose is too low.  Your body does need a certain amount of fat and as an athlete your nutritional requirements are often higher/different from the avg person.  Reducing fat in your diet doesn't necessarily mean reducing weight.  Are you on a 2000 cal/day diet now?  I measure in at 2100 calories at 6ft, ~182lbs.  If you are then it may be time to look at what you are eating along with the calorie count.  More veggies, lean meats, etc.  You may have done this but if you are not getting proper results then you might be missing something.

Agreeed. The body does need a certain amoutn of fat everyday. But what if you already have the fat stored? If you eat food containing fat will your body used that or will used the fat stored on your person instead. I've been pretty good with my diet I have maintained a calorie intake of between 1500-2000 a day since x-mas. It really hasen't been that hard. But just looking at my food from yesterday

early morning: Banana .39g fat

Breakfast: Egg Beaters 3 egg veggie omelet w/ 1/2 slice american cheese and salsa .5g fat

mid morning snack: banana .39g fat

lunch: subway turkey breast & ham, apple 5.25g fat

afternoon snack: apple .25 fat

diner: baked fish, veggie meddely, ore Ida tator tots 14g fat

evening snack: danon yogurt 0 fat

every drink I had was either a no calorie or ultra-low calories drink IE: Crystal light

Total fat for the day 21 grams

I admit it is a little low on calories but fat wise I was at 21 grams for the day. And if i had had a baked potato instead of the tator tots for dinner I would have been under 15 for the day. Without really even trying. Is that really that bad?

2011-01-27 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Mark, 30 to 40 grams is the amount that I try to stay at or under.  As you go along, it will get harder and harder to find things you want to eat and stay under 35 grams.  I lost 45 pounds with a goal of under 35 grams in about 6 months.  Of course I was working out pretty hard as well, but thats the fun part, right?
2011-01-27 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Mark, in uncharted waters for me here.  I have read about how the body processes body fat/fuel storage but no expert.  I have heard about the body protecting itself from itself by going into preservation mode.  But reviewing your food for the day I don't think your exactly starving yourself to death.  To be honest I really think you may need to bring a nutrionist into the mix to figure this out.  BT actually has a paid service for this.  My day yesterday looked like:

1/4 bagel (1/2 of a mini bagel), 1/4 banana for breakfast
1/2 PB sandwich for snack.
Lunch:  Turkey salami sandwich, 100 calorie yogurt, 90 calorie granola bar

Granola bar on the way home.

Dinner:
Turkey meatball spaghetti with spinach, pea soup, 65 calorie beer.  100 calorie dessert (ice cream sandwich with fake ice cream).

That was a bit of a lite day for me.


2011-01-27 10:24 AM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Chris,  I'll keep this short.  I could go on for days on the subject.  Like has already been mentioned, it's a 'calorie in' vs. 'calorie spent' thing.  I'm going to approach this with straight weight loss without considering exercise, meal timings, etc.  Exercise (increase in caloric expenditure and increase in lean muscle mass) will accelerate the process.
  1. Track everything, I mean everything you eat.  My preference online is MyFitnessPal.com  It's free and has a HUGE database.  If you have a smartphone, get an app.  MyFitnessPal has one.  If you have an Iphone, clients have had good success with "Lose it" as well.
  2. Figure out your daily caloric expenditure goal and divide it by 6.  Eat 6 equal meals a day with the meal before your workout being higher in carbs.  (this will rev up your metabolism and will burn fat more effeciently).  Quick analogy:  you get a fire started with lots of little sticks that then create coals.  You keep it burning by putting high quality logs on the fire.  That will produce a long-steady burn.  Go too long without adding wood, the fire burns down, then when you add a huge log on a smoldering fire, it takes a long time for it get burning, if it even does.  Same with your metabolism, you keep the flame stoked by eating high quality fuel evenly spread out throughout the day.  Skip breakfast, but fire burns down, skip mid-morning snack, it burns down more.  Add a huge lunch, your metabolism smolders and flickers a bit, and your body will only process 1/2 to 2/3 of it anyway, converting the balance to 'stored fuel'.  Then skip afternoon snack and have a large dinner and the process repeats itself.  The body's never given a chance to efficiently burn the fuel you're providing it.
  3. Eat whole foods.  Nothing from a box or processed, if you can help it.  Carbs from veggies and fruit instead of pastas and rice, but when you do choose to eat them, do whole wheat pasta and brown rice.  Heck, if you want to go all the way, grind your own wheat, make your own bread, make your own yogurt and while you're at it grow your own garden, produce your own eggs, chicken, beef, etc.
Again, I didn't address fueling for workouts, but you should consider increasing your carb count on the meal before your workout.  Maybe even throw in some simple carbs shortly before working out to spike the blood sugar a bit to increase output.  Again, this is geared more towards workouts less than 45-60 minutes.  I'm a noob when it comes to fueling endurance workouts, but that's why I'm here!

Whew, I feel better now.  Sorry you had to suffer through my rant.  Have an exquisite day!
2011-01-27 10:41 AM
in reply to: #3324468

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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

elcaminobill - 2011-01-27 10:08 AM Mark, 30 to 40 grams is the amount that I try to stay at or under.  As you go along, it will get harder and harder to find things you want to eat and stay under 35 grams.  I lost 45 pounds with a goal of under 35 grams in about 6 months.  Of course I was working out pretty hard as well, but thats the fun part, right?

OK Bill. So you'd recommend a goal of roughly 35 grams fat a day. That seeems reasonable. Thanks.

GaryRM - 2011-01-27 10:10 AM Mark, in uncharted waters for me here.  I have read about how the body processes body fat/fuel storage but no expert.  I have heard about the body protecting itself from itself by going into preservation mode.  But reviewing your food for the day I don't think your exactly starving yourself to death.  To be honest I really think you may need to bring a nutrionist into the mix to figure this out.  BT actually has a paid service for this. 

You know Gary I have put some thought to getting the help of a nutritionalist. It hasen't gone from just thinking about it yet. Is the BT one a gold member thing or a separate cost? I don't think I want to have one on a continuing basis. I would rather have someone I can sit down with and go over how to build a good plan on my own.

****************************************

I should quantify the meal plan I show'd in saying that it is just a "during-the-week" plan. I find getting my eating right during the week is much easier than on the weekends. Because I am up at 4AM to train, then straight to work,  then straight to the gym/track/bike to train again. I get home at about 8:30PM. I have just enough time to eat, maybe make breakfast for the next day and go to bed. Even if I wanted to cheat, there's no time to do it.

It's on the weekends that I let myself go a bit. I like to go out for a steak, which probably has a billion fat grams in it. One beer just isn't enough for me, its generally 4 or 5 (or 6). But I contain that for one day a week. I have heard that allowing yourself to enjoy yourself once a week is a healthy thing to do.

I also have been experimenting with my slow-cooker. I love my slow-cooker. I like being able to make a huge pot of something and eat off it all week. This past week I made a split pea & ham soup. Appanently it was pretty good because my room-mate and I ate the entire 12 quart pot in about 3 days. i also make a beef stew and a chili.

2011-01-27 10:45 AM
in reply to: #3324468

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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Mark,  I agree with Billy.  Keep the fat higher, but make sure it's good fat (from natural foods, avocado, olive oil, natty peanut butter, etc.)  I plugged 2,000 calories into myfitnesspal (mfp) and it recommended the following based on a 2,000 calorie target and a 50-30-20 ratio:
Carbs 50% 250g
Protein 30% 150g
Fat 20% 44g

Oh, and btw, instead of tater tots, or a baked potato, try a sweet potato.  Lower on the glycemic index and tastes better plain.  I even slice up a cooked one and eat them cold.
2011-01-27 11:15 AM
in reply to: #1137328

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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Mark,
I dont know what kind of insurance you have but most policies will cover a nutritionist. You have to get your primary care MD to refer you, but they are usually more than happy to do that. You can meet initially to set up a diet and goals and then once a month or so to see how you are doing. Try and find one with some background in sports nutrition. Give your primary MD the name and they will make the referal ( paper work). They usually have to be a RD( registered dietician)
2011-01-27 1:01 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

mav - 2011-01-27 11:15 AM Mark,
I dont know what kind of insurance you have but most policies will cover a nutritionist. You have to get your primary care MD to refer you, but they are usually more than happy to do that. You can meet initially to set up a diet and goals and then once a month or so to see how you are doing. Try and find one with some background in sports nutrition. Give your primary MD the name and they will make the referal ( paper work). They usually have to be a RD( registered dietician)

Ugh, don't get me started on my health plan. I have one, but its the wrong one. It covers nothing except if I have a brain hemerage or something like that. I went back to change it but some freaken idiot decided to change the health care system and I was told by my provider I can't make any changes until the new system is implimented. And of course some other idiots decided to take the first idiot to court. So it is literally going to be years until I can make the changes I need.

It's easier to just pay for what I need out of my own pocket. Which is what I generally do. I'll look around and see what I nutritionalist will cost and see if I can afford it.

Boy you can run up expensies fast in this sport/hobby, I have this, I want to take a LT blood test, I really would like to get my bike Pro fitted and there are some sweet cycling shoes I've have my eyes on. Sigh, how do I fit in more over-time...



Edited by x_caliber50 2011-01-27 1:09 PM


2011-01-27 1:16 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

Early morning swim today (2600)
WU 5x100 swim
D1: 6x75 (25 swim, 25 reach and glide, 25 swim) with paddles.
MS 3x {3x100@2:10, 50hard, 50Easy
          {1x300@6:30
No cool down ran out of time.  Lucky to finish the mainset

You can call me Fit.

Alt.Mark if you're making choices that deny yourself something it going to be hard to make it a life choice.  You body is going to give you cravings for foods that distract you from your goals.  You're going to have to find something better to substitute for those cravings.  Better yet, time the craving and short circuit that pattern before it happens.  For example:  If you getting a craving for fats and oils, give yourself a controlled portion before getting to the point where you go crazy and eat a pizza.   I like light laughing cow and find a single wedge spread on two slices of high fiber crisp bread or on sliced celery statisfies the craving for fats and oils.

One wedge of the light version of the Swiss flavor has 2 g of total fat and only 1 g of saturated fat. The American Heart Association explains that your body needs some fat for energy and to aid in the absorption of certain nutrients.  Removing all fats and oils from your diet will effect your short term memory and decision making.

Fit

2011-01-27 1:33 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Chris, the iPhone app I have and love is MyNetDiary (i have the Pro version). NOt sure if they have it for Droid, but for iPhone, there is a free and a Pro versions available. I paid the $1.99 for the Pro, but honestly, the free version has 90% of the paid one, and you really don't need the $ version. I have looked at a LOT of apps for tracking calories and such, and I really, really like this one a lot. It comes with a desktop acct too, I think, though I don't use it. If it is made for the Droid, you can always get the free version and compare it to some others, test drive it, so to speak, and see which one fits your needs....

hth!
2011-01-27 1:34 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

Fit4Infinity - 2011-01-27 1:16 PM

The American Heart Association explains that your body needs some fat for energy and to aid in the absorption of certain nutrients.  Removing all fats and oils from your diet will effect your short term memory and decision making.

Fit

This brings me back to my original question. I understand that the human body needs a certain amount of fat in order to function. But what if the body already has an over abundance of fat stored? What would be the pourpose of adding aditional fat to it?

I last weighed myself about 2 weeks ago. At that time I was at 209. According to the scale my body fat content was 23.5%. That works out to be 49.1 lbs of fat stored on my body already. Why can't my body used that fat instead of any additional fat that I would potentionally consume? Of course this is just a discussion on body mechanics, I am leaving out things like cravings and desires for the sake of aurgument.

Oh and Mark No. 2, i'm not the "alt" because I was here first. You're the imposter not me

2011-01-27 1:34 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

Deleted double post.



Edited by x_caliber50 2011-01-27 1:35 PM
2011-01-27 1:37 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Fit4Infinity - 2011-01-27 1:16 PM

You can call me Fit.

Or, if you are into the show Fringe, we could call you Markternate.


2011-01-27 1:39 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

Fit4Infinity - 2011-01-27 1:16 PM

Early morning swim today (2600)
WU 5x100 swim
D1: 6x75 (25 swim, 25 reach and glide, 25 swim) with paddles.
MS 3x {3x100@2:10, 50hard, 50Easy
          {1x300@6:30
No cool down ran out of time.  Lucky to finish the mainset

You can call me Fit.

Nice swim by the way!

2011-01-27 1:40 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
x_caliber50 - 2011-01-27 1:34 PM

>Oh and Mark No. 2, i'm not the "alt" because I was here first. You're the imposter not me

lol

...and Mark, I have the same eternal question in my head, only about MY fat, not yours At what point is starving a body of a certain element (fat) ok if you have a lot of extra already? hmmmm
2011-01-27 2:03 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
From Dietician.com:

Question:
I eat a balanced diet except I concentrate on the fat content. If it's available in non-fat such as milk or cheese, that's what I buy and eat. My fat intake is typically between 5 and 10% of my calories. I do weight train and do cardio workouts three times a week. Is my fat intake too low?


Answer:
Possibly. Consider these facts about your body's need for fat.

It is recommended that people consume 30% of total daily calories from fat, 55% from carbohydrates and 15% from protein. So, you are not consuming nearly enough fat in your diet according to these guidelines.

Fats perform many vital roles to aid in the body's functions. Triglycerides, the main form of fat in the body and in foods, constitute most of the stored energy in the body. Triglycerides yield over twice as much energy per gram as carbohydrates and protein (fats provide 9 calories per gram, while carbohydrates and protein provide 4 calories per gram). The free fatty acids, released from triglycerides are the major source for fuel for the body at rest and during light activity.

Triglycerides and other lipids (fat) in foods also carry fat-soluble vitamin A ,D, E and K to the small intestine. In doing so, lipids aid in absorption of these nutrients. Without fat you are at risk for developing deficiencies of these vitamins.

Food fat causes the stomach to empty more slowly than either carbohydrates or protein and it imparts satiety - the satisfied feeling you have after eating. If you reduce your fat intake below 20% of total energy intake, you will get hungry quicker.

The essential fatty acids, omega-3 and omega-6, are substances that need to come from the diet. They are necessary building materials for molecules and compounds that perform such vital functions in your body as regulation of blood pressure, blood clotting, immune response and childbirth. Excellent sources of these essential fatty acids are salad dressings containing Canola or soybean oil, salmon, tuna and sardines.

Another thing to be aware of is when fat is removed from a product, something else must be added, usually carbohydrates in order to maintain a desirable taste and texture. For this reason, many fat-reduced and fat-free products are still very energy dense - containing a high amount of calories. Remember that calories count too, no matter if they come from fat, carbohydrates or protein so be sure to moderate your portions if you consume a lot of fat reduced products. Consider the increase in the number of low fat foods while the American public's average weight has gone up. Low fat and fat free foods are not the magic solution for weight loss.

Have you tried the Healthy Body Calculator? If you put your physical data and activities in, it will calculate a healthy amount of calories and fat based on your nutrition goals.

@Fit:  Great workout!  I just signed up at our community pool today and am anxious to get started on the swim portion.  I'm a noob (can't swim 25), but I have been reading the Total Immersion book and watching 2 of the DVDs.  He claims form is the key, since you want to cut/glide through the water.  I'm guessing your reach and glides are to practice form.

I think this forum is great.  I appreciate seeing what you 'vets' are posting.  Everything from workouts, to the commitment required (like getting up at 4am, getting a workout in, before going to work, then doing another workout in the evening.)

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.
2011-01-27 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
BTW, does anyone have a recommendation of how to bookmark the last message posted?  I'm wondering if there's a way to read to newer posts instead of having to scroll through them.  On some forums you can reverse the view so the newest posts appear first, then you just bookmark the 1st page.

I noticed the link in the email subscription just takes you to the last page.  Maybe that's as good as it gets.  Anywho - just askin'.
2011-01-27 2:15 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

My last masters set from Tuesday

w/u - 8 x 50 (got there late, was 20)

Set
10 x 200
1-2 on 3:00
3-4 on 2:55
5-6 on 2:50
7-8 on 2:45
9-10 on 2:40

w/d- 4 x 100 (swim/kick), 200 ez

To be honest, the lane leader kinda flaked, I was swimming consistent 2:38-39, and on the 2:50 and 2:45 he was still on the wall when I came in, he should have been gone, so those sets were on the 2:55 as I was getting :15 rest.  The 2:40s he did though, I made the first and unfortunately didn't make the second one by about 4 seconds. 

Followed by a 4 mile run that I flaked on in the morning.  The feeling of that run motivated me to get up and run this morning so I don't have to swim/run again tonight.

This morning got in a nice 5.25 mile run, starting to add hills back.  I am EXTREMELY happy that I am currently uninjured, that's not very common for me, especially leading up to a HIM.  I willnot be fast at it, but if things keep going well I will hit the starting line healthy.  Then I can assess the rest of this season.



Edited by ChrisM 2011-01-27 2:16 PM


2011-01-27 4:23 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!

ok so I am close to getting a bike... once I have said bike what do I want to do first?

probably get pedals/shoes?

what is the best method for learning gears?

what is the best training methods/schedules?

any other tip/tricks/snide remarks I should know?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!

-Jeff

2011-01-27 4:50 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
@Pace - when you get new pedals I strongly recommend you go someplace soft, like a grassy field to practice clipping in and out.  It's not a pretty site, but everyone falls over at least once while learning how to emergency unclip.

When it happened to me, I was climbing a wicked hill (98st hill on the Meydenbauer bay side) and weaved towards the curb when I saw I was heading into a storm water grate.  At the time I was still very green on my new dream Cervelo and freaked out.  Ended up on my back on the sidewalk holding the bike in the air, still clipped in.  I laid there thinking 'How did I get here and how do I get out of the pedals without scratching paint.'
2011-01-27 6:46 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Jeff,
Once you feel  you've gotten accustomed to clipping in and out of your pedals and you no longer have to think about it....that's when you'll have your first fall!  If your real lucky it'll be away from traffic.

Biking is probably where i need the most help.  In my 2 sprints, i averaged about 17 mph over the 12 mile courses.  In Georgia, most of the courses are somewhat hilly so i need to "do hill work".  So what are some good workouts to get better at hills?  My training plan calls for my weekly long rides to be about 95 minutes right now and the other two rides are at 60 minutes each.  So far, 1:40 is longest i've ever ridden and that was at about 14 mph.  By September, I've got to do 56 in under 3:15......well, that's my goal anyway.  Thanks for all your help!!

Rick
2011-01-27 7:18 PM
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Subject: RE: left.right.repeat group -closed - Full of a bunch of winners...YEAH!
Rick - if you want to get strong on the bike look up Jorges training program.  Challenge forum I believe or you can go to my logs and there is a link to the program.

I tried out the Healthy body calculator and it told me for losing a pound a week I need to keep to 1200 calories a day.  I must have done something wrong.  At 1200 calories a day I would lose a lot more than a pound a week.  I have trouble sticking to 2000 calories a day.

Waiting on DD to finish gymnastics then its home to clean house.  Fun....
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