SWBKRUN Mentor Group-"Off Season?" What is that?!! (Page 18)

Forum guidelines BT super discount
BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SWBKRUN Mentor Group-"Off Season?" What is that?!! Rss Feed  
Moderators: alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 383
 
 
2009-04-21 8:11 AM
in reply to: #2098977

User image

Master
2436
200010010010010025
Apex, north carolina
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
kt65 - 2009-04-21 12:49 AM

Just a self pity post.  I went to the group swim at Aquatic Park tonight.  Freezing (54degrees) yet very calm water.  I am so bad at sighting.  I seem to always drift to the right and really think I need to learn to bilaterally breathe.  Popping my eyes up to sight seems to take lots of effort and I just got so tired that after we did the first 1000 yards or so, I just swam to shore, and didn't finish the last 500 yards.  I hope to go back in 2 weeks and do the whole thing, but dang.  I know it's not productive to feel sorry for oneself but DANG!  Does it get any easier?  I think I should practice sighting in the pool.  Any tips on the sighting?  I'm so miserable right now


I hear ya girl. That sounds exactly like my race from Saturday.  I too pull stronger to one side.  Bilateral breathing helps, but to be honest I stick to breathing on one side b/c I feel strongest that way, especially when it is a long distance.  Now take my advise with a grain of salt, b/c obviously I suck at it too. But in theory, what I do is swim with the pack to the side I breath on (I breath to my right so I swim to the left of the pack) so when I lift my head to breath I can see the other swimmers and know I am going in the right direction. The problem is the slight drift away from the group. I look at it as if I am driving a car with the alignment off so I know every few strokes I have to pull back in the opposite direction of my drift.  For buoy sighting I lift my head just enough so my eyes are out of the water and looking straight, spot the marker, then turn my head to breath. 

To practice this in a pool put a water botitle or find a sign on the wall at the end of you lane and practice spotting it every few strokes.  Also you can practice swimming with your eyes shut.  Only do this if you have the lane all to yourself, but it will demonstrate your ability to swim straight or if you pull unevenly.  

Yes sighting does take some getting used to and it can strain your neck if you aren't comfortable with it.   Often times I see people just stop swimming and float (this works great in a wetsuit) or breast stroke to get themselves oriented, then continue on.

And as long as we're on the subject, one other thing to practice for OWSing is getting a face full of water or kicked in the face.  Either action can be quite disturbing unless you have prepared for it. If you end up with a face full of water when you turn to breath, don't panic!  Just put your face back in the water for one more swim stroke and try again.  I know that sounds simple but people can panic if they don't get the expected breath.  This can be practiced in the pool if you are in the outside lane with the wall and the pool is crowed, so you'll get some back splash off the wall. Or if you are sharing a lane and catch a wave in the mouth.  Just tell yourself you can hold your breath for 3 more seconds and try again. Getting kicked basically sucks but as long as you aren't hurt just follow the same idea as the water in the face. No panic, just regroup and continue.  Actually I like the contact in OWSing b/c it is the one time I am allowed to kick and bump into people and not have to stop and apologize.  My inner aggressiveness shines through

Great job getting out in that cold water!! Did you double up on the swim caps?

2009-04-21 8:20 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Master
1952
10005001001001001002525
Guelph, Ontario
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

Kim: It's Ok to have a very short pity party once in awhile. No more than 30 seconds Don't worry about the swimming and siting. You will get it down pat very quickly. Just force yourself to do the proper siting. Get something that is comfortable and keep using it. Tony's suggestion is one very good one. I just focus on taking a quick look, about every 12 to 15 strokes,very similar to what Tony does but don't consciously (sp) think of looking ahead underwater. Bilateral breathing does help me keep swimming a little straighter but I still have to focus as my right side is stronger than my left and therefore I have a tendancy to pull harder on that side. It does get easier the more you do.

I'm going to have to relearn siting this year as all my winter swimming has been indoors and I only have to follow the lines on the pool.



Edited by Redknight 2009-04-21 8:23 AM
2009-04-21 9:09 AM
in reply to: #2099296

User image

Elite
4108
20002000100
Calgary,AB,Canada
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Redknight - 2009-04-21 7:11 AM

cadmus - 2009-04-20 9:14 PM

smoore3 - 2009-04-20 5:54 PM Hey Trevor - I also have Yankz and they are also hurting my feet.? I think I'm going to have to take them out as it feels like they are bruising the top of my left foot!? Does anyone here use another type of speed laces that they would recommend?
I can't remember if they are lock or speed laces, but I use whichever don't require hardware in the lace holes. They are essentially elastic laces that you need not tie or adjust. They were like five bucks at the LRS. I did try a thinner version that I didn't like as much, but I think that was just mental on my part because they were different.

Hey Trevor do they have LRS out there. We have them in Ontario I thnk they are US based

Yes we have a new store " LRS Incorporated". It just opened downtown. Im not sure what it sells yet though. You'd think named LRS, it must be a Levi Retail Store or something like that. HAHA
             Thanks Rob!! You always make me feel so special.
2009-04-21 9:12 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Regular
310
100100100
Seymour, IN
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Suzy, you are awesome.  I can't run that consistent a pace to my mailbox!

Kim, we all have bad days which turn into pity parties.  I've created a monster (two actually) at my house.  I don't let my kids pout about their bad sporting events - it's over, forget about and get ready for the next time.  My kids didn't like "Suck it up", but they do take well to "Build a Bridge and Get Over It."
So if I complain about a run, or a ride, or my foot hurting I get a loud "Build a Bridge" from one of my kids.
Either way you're way ahead of me - I've not been in the water yet.
2009-04-21 9:17 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Elite
4108
20002000100
Calgary,AB,Canada
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Hey Tracy...Just read you RR from the weekend. Nice work with the bum foot. But I have to ask, or maybe comment.....
When I run, I see the sign that says "RUN COURSE" with tan arrow pointing in a certain direction, I personally would run TOWARDS that area. You??  Cool
2009-04-21 9:41 AM
in reply to: #2099512

User image

Master
2436
200010010010010025
Apex, north carolina
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
I was waiting for one of you to pick up on that.  Maybe that is why my run time was so slow?  Actually that is what happens in an out and back loop, you get to run against the signs.  Sssshhhh, this is an insiders secret. We don't tell the newbies this.

2009-04-21 9:54 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Champion
6973
500010005001001001001002525
marietta
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
I was at the aquatic park w/ Kim and know the real reason she stopped at 1000.  She felt it was too easy and wanted to get to the beer cooler before everyone else.  

1000 yards is AWESOME Kim!  Nothing to hang your head about at all!

I gotta ask for clarification though.  To me the term drifting is indicative of a current... but that's not what you are talking about right.   



2009-04-21 9:57 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Champion
6973
500010005001001001001002525
marietta
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Tony,  I just realized you were the guy who asked me about mapmyrun a few weeks back  Did I answer your question? I wanted to fire off at the guy who answered below me on that thread but the final outcome of his description was fairly accurate so I  left it alone.  I promise you though their algorithm works much differently than he explained.


edit...i keep wanting to call you dale...

Edited by fattyfatfat 2009-04-21 10:00 AM
2009-04-21 10:02 AM
in reply to: #2099657

User image

Champion
9060
5000200020002525
Charlottesville, Virginia
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
fattyfatfat - 2009-04-21 10:57 AM Tony,  I just realized you were the guy who asked me about mapmyrun a few weeks back  Did I answer your question? I wanted to fire off at the guy who answered below me on that thread but the final outcome of his description was fairly accurate so I  left it alone.  I promise you though their algorithm works much differently than he explained.


edit...i keep wanting to call you dale...


Yeah I think I got it,  I was mainly trying to compare oranges to oranges, mooseman course vs hills I ride.

I know I always get that based on my username, no worries.
2009-04-21 10:03 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Veteran
175
100252525
Oklahoma City, OK
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

Wow, I check out over the weekend and I am 10 pages behind Surprised.  I got lots of catching up to do.  I hope everyone had a great weekend and have got this week off to a good start.  I am getting geared up for my first race of the season.  I'm going to be part of a relay for the OKC Memorial Marathon this Sunday which should be lots of fun.  Then my first tri this season is only 3 weeks away.  I will be doing my first oly distance as well as my first OWS.  I haven't got any OWS practice swims in yet so I am getting a bit nervous......really need to get my butt to the lake over the weekend!!

~Holly

2009-04-21 10:49 AM
in reply to: #2099318

User image

Elite
4108
20002000100
Calgary,AB,Canada
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Redknight - 2009-04-21 7:20 AM

Kim: It's Ok to have a very short pity party once in awhile. No more than 30 seconds Don't worry about the swimming and siting. You will get it down pat very quickly. Just force yourself to do the proper siting. Get something that is comfortable and keep using it. Tony's suggestion is one very good one. I just focus on taking a quick look, about every 12 to 15 strokes,very similar to what Tony does but don't consciously (sp) think of looking ahead underwater. Bilateral breathing does help me keep swimming a little straighter but I still have to focus as my right side is stronger than my left and therefore I have a tendancy to pull harder on that side. It does get easier the more you do.

I'm going to have to relearn siting this year as all my winter swimming has been indoors and I only have to follow the lines on the pool.


I can help Rob...Siting is pretty easy. To start with get a chair.....then bend your legs and move over top of it....And Volia!
Now we're even!

2009-04-21 10:59 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Pro
4100
20002000100
Wherever the trail takes me, WA.
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Kim--- Please!  You did more than enough yesterday.  Don't feel bad.  It takes a little failure to make you stronger.  You will forever learn from this experience.  My 1st thought when I read your description is that you are trying to come WAY out of the water.  Run w/ what Tony says.  Try to incorporated into your breathing. Roll your head from the right, forward in one motion, or breath straight forward.  You shouldn't have to spot but every couple minutes.  Use the people around you as well.  Keep them close to you! Let them do all the work.  It is great practice to keep them in front of you, and to the side!

Holly--- When you said you haven't practiced the ows - did you mean EVER, or this year?

Sarah (and all others)--- What kind of socks are you running with?  Speed Laces or Yankz tend to tighten down more than conventional laces.  I don't like Yankz.  For me I don't like having it pull from the bottom.  I prefer SPEED LACES over Yankz, and be sure to wear thinner socks than normal heavy everyday cotton socks.  BIG DIFFERENCE.

Hope any of this helps?!
2009-04-21 11:01 AM
in reply to: #2071255

User image

Pro
4100
20002000100
Wherever the trail takes me, WA.
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
2009-04-21 11:34 AM
in reply to: #2099813

User image

Champion
9060
5000200020002525
Charlottesville, Virginia
Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
Good point from one of Steve's links.

  • In an actual race, you should be choosing these landmarks beforehand, probably while warming up your swim before the start.

    • Try to pick out landmarks and not sight off buoys, if you have a house or something to sight off of it's a lot easier to see and can be done quicker than trying to pick out an orange Buoy.

    Also, not sure how many of you go to slowtwitch at all but this is a great post.

    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2296915;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

    The original question is about what sport of the three improves the rest but people actually start talking about what sport to focus on.

    Read Rappstars post, Jordan Rapp is a pro triathlete, he was 2nd overall at IMAZ last year.

    I am super guilty of spending more time on the bike than the other 3 sports and look at swimming as a means to get to the bike and hope for the best on the run.

    My wife and I were talking about this last week.  We lose so much time on the swim and try to catch up on the bike.  We are both OK runners but not GOOD runners.  Running 8-9 minute miles you lose a lot of time on the 6 minute mile runners.

    Before I read that post I was allready thinking about re-focusing my training a bit and this just confirms it.

    I had planned on getting at least 7k - 8k of swimming in per week, which when I did that last week I really noticed I was swimming better by the end of the week.

    Need to figure out what to do with the running.  I think with my 1/2 marathon and 10 miler races so far I have gotten a lot further along with my running, and hopefully the marathon in October should really help boost my overall running ability.

    Sorry to ramble but I am really excited about this re-focus (not that I am going to give up biking, just won't be priority for a bit)

    Any thoughts?

    2009-04-21 11:45 AM
    in reply to: #2099903

    User image

    Expert
    1231
    100010010025
    B'ham
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

    Man, the sun is nice, but damn if it didn't trigger every tree and grass to blast pollen into the air.  I've been taking my allergy meds for awhile now in hopes to avoid this crap.  Slept like <apparently this word is not allowed> last night, throat feels like I swallowed razor blades and my sinuses feel like they're filled with helium. I don't think there's a drug on the market that will help!!

    Have a nice day

     



    Edited by cadmus 2009-04-21 11:46 AM
    2009-04-21 1:43 PM
    in reply to: #2071255

    User image

    Elite
    4108
    20002000100
    Calgary,AB,Canada
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
    Hey guys...Another reason why I like this group/site. M well-documented 10k(57:11) on Sunday was the 1st time running sub 1hr ever. I was out running today, was going to do 5km but it was nice so i continued on, figured I'd do the 7.5 km loop, then said screw it I'm doing all 10k. Once i saw my time at 8k, i thought "crap I have to pick it up, I can't go over 1hr." So I ran my last 2k quicker than normal to finish up the 10k in 59:44! I love the accountability and the thought of others looking in. It is very motivating, and to that I say ummmm Thanks!!

    Oh and those who were talking abou the Yankz...I lossed them up a bit, and put on these new Nike socks that are foot specific and no pain today. So Sarah you may to give that a shot.

    Edited by TrevorC 2009-04-21 1:45 PM

    2009-04-21 1:54 PM
    in reply to: #2099790

    User image

    Master
    1952
    10005001001001001002525
    Guelph, Ontario
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

    TrevorC - 2009-04-21 11:49 AM
    Redknight - 2009-04-21 7:20 AM

    Kim: It's Ok to have a very short pity party once in awhile. No more than 30 seconds Don't worry about the swimming and siting. You will get it down pat very quickly. Just force yourself to do the proper siting. Get something that is comfortable and keep using it. Tony's suggestion is one very good one. I just focus on taking a quick look, about every 12 to 15 strokes,very similar to what Tony does but don't consciously (sp) think of looking ahead underwater. Bilateral breathing does help me keep swimming a little straighter but I still have to focus as my right side is stronger than my left and therefore I have a tendancy to pull harder on that side. It does get easier the more you do.

    I'm going to have to relearn siting this year as all my winter swimming has been indoors and I only have to follow the lines on the pool.


    I can help Rob...Siting is pretty easy. To start with get a chair.....then bend your legs and move over top of it....And Volia!
    Now we're even!

    I believe the term you are referring to is siTTing the definition of placing ones a$$ in a recombant position. The "siting" I refer to is an Americanization of what we in the proper English { }would term sighting or looking for a subject off in the distance. Now don't you feel even more special or should that be specialer.

    2009-04-21 1:56 PM
    in reply to: #2100382

    User image

    Master
    1952
    10005001001001001002525
    Guelph, Ontario
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

    TrevorC - 2009-04-21 2:43 PM Hey guys...Another reason why I like this group/site. M well-documented 10k(57:11) on Sunday was the 1st time running sub 1hr ever. I was out running today, was going to do 5km but it was nice so i continued on, figured I'd do the 7.5 km loop, then said screw it I'm doing all 10k. Once i saw my time at 8k, i thought "crap I have to pick it up, I can't go over 1hr." So I ran my last 2k quicker than normal to finish up the 10k in 59:44! I love the accountability and the thought of others looking in. It is very motivating, and to that I say ummmm Thanks!!

    Oh and those who were talking abou the Yankz...I lossed them up a bit, and put on these new Nike socks that are foot specific and no pain today. So Sarah you may to give that a shot.

    Nice work Trevor. I agree with having to be accountable to the group. Gives you that added little incentive to do better.

    2009-04-21 2:15 PM
    in reply to: #2071255

    User image

    Expert
    653
    5001002525
    Henderson, NV
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
    So the knee got worse after my run on Sunday.  Decided to get it checked out by my ortho.  He said what I thought he would say,"no running possibly up to 3 months".  MRI to be scheduled, rule out stress fracture to the Tibial Head.  Marathon in 6 weeks is not looking good.  Training was going so well too.  Not losing hope quite yet though.  We will see.  I did get the OK on the bike, though I don't think he realizes how much I do on the bike.  Any miracle healing stories would be helpful right now!!  Chet
    2009-04-21 2:15 PM
    in reply to: #2099808

    User image

    Veteran
    175
    100252525
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

    swbkrun - 2009-04-21 10:59 AM

    Holly--- When you said you haven't practiced the ows - did you mean EVER, or this year?



    I mean EVER.  The one Sprint race I did last year was a pool swim so I didn't worry about it...and have procrastinated ever since.  I will be able to get out at least once, maybe 2x before my race.   Thanks for posting the articles, I really wasn't sure what I was going to practice (other than just swiming) once I got out there.  If nothing else this one will prepare me for my 2nd race which will be 2 weeks later.

    This poses another question.  I have 2 oly distance races 2 weeks apart.  How much training should I do in those 2 weeks? 

    2009-04-21 2:28 PM
    in reply to: #2100423

    User image

    Elite
    4108
    20002000100
    Calgary,AB,Canada
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
    Redknight - 2009-04-21 12:54 PM

    TrevorC - 2009-04-21 11:49 AM
    Redknight - 2009-04-21 7:20 AM

    Kim: It's Ok to have a very short pity party once in awhile. No more than 30 seconds Don't worry about the swimming and siting. You will get it down pat very quickly. Just force yourself to do the proper siting. Get something that is comfortable and keep using it. Tony's suggestion is one very good one. I just focus on taking a quick look, about every 12 to 15 strokes,very similar to what Tony does but don't consciously (sp) think of looking ahead underwater. Bilateral breathing does help me keep swimming a little straighter but I still have to focus as my right side is stronger than my left and therefore I have a tendancy to pull harder on that side. It does get easier the more you do.

    I'm going to have to relearn siting this year as all my winter swimming has been indoors and I only have to follow the lines on the pool.


    I can help Rob...Siting is pretty easy. To start with get a chair.....then bend your legs and move over top of it....And Volia!
    Now we're even!

    I believe the term you are referring to is siTTing the definition of placing ones a$$ in a recombant position. The "siting" I refer to is an Americanization of what we in the proper English { }would term sighting or looking for a subject off in the distance. Now don't you feel even more special or should that be specialer.

      Sighting
               
    Definition: the act of seeing in the open water races, generally towards landmarks, turn buoys, escort boats or the finish. Lifting the head to look ahead in order to decide the optimal direction to be swimming in an open water race; a view of the race course. (noun)
    Also Known As: view, look
    Examples: The swimmer took frequent sightings as she raised her head every 25 strokes.


    I am so confused. I sure hope when Kim practices her OWS , she only talks to people about it and it is not written. I bet you and I have her so confused about how to spell things, she may not ever want to swim!!!


    Edited by TrevorC 2009-04-21 2:29 PM

    2009-04-21 2:35 PM
    in reply to: #2099927

    User image

    Master
    1952
    10005001001001001002525
    Guelph, Ontario
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!

    cadmus - 2009-04-21 12:45 PM

    Man, the sun is nice, but damn if it didn't trigger every tree and grass to blast pollen into the air.  I've been taking my allergy meds for awhile now in hopes to avoid this crap.  Slept like  last night, throat feels like I swallowed razor blades and my sinuses feel like they're filled with helium. I don't think there's a drug on the market that will help!!

    Have a nice day

     

    Matt: I have heard lots and lots of alcohol take the edge off for a while.

    Isn't spring wonderful. I went for my first outdoor bike ride this season last week and of course it was the day all the farmers decided to clean out their pig, cattle and chicken barns. I passed so much (once a gain the word we can't use) my sinuses were completely cleared out. Although I should have taken some kleenex with me. My sleeve looked like a glazed donut by the time I got back.

    2009-04-21 2:36 PM
    in reply to: #2100518

    User image

    Champion
    9060
    5000200020002525
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
    cbarnes1 - 2009-04-21 3:15 PM So the knee got worse after my run on Sunday.  Decided to get it checked out by my ortho.  He said what I thought he would say,"no running possibly up to 3 months".  MRI to be scheduled, rule out stress fracture to the Tibial Head.  Marathon in 6 weeks is not looking good.  Training was going so well too.  Not losing hope quite yet though.  We will see.  I did get the OK on the bike, though I don't think he realizes how much I do on the bike.  Any miracle healing stories would be helpful right now!!  Chet


    Ouch, sorry to hear that Chet,  hopefully the MRI gives you some good news.
    2009-04-21 2:49 PM
    in reply to: #2100518

    User image

    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
    Chet sorry to hear about the knee.  I don't know any miracle cures, but I have heard some folks talk about water jogging while injured.  Might be worth running by your doc (honestly, no pun intended).  Anything to keep the progress going, for the short time you're out - keeping positive vibes going.

    Hoping for good MRI results!


    edited when I saw my little "funny" pun  Laughing

    Edited by Havin'Fun 2009-04-21 2:51 PM
    2009-04-21 4:31 PM
    in reply to: #2071255

    User image

    Pro
    4100
    20002000100
    Wherever the trail takes me, WA.
    Subject: RE: SWBKRUN Mentor Group-Closed! TIME TO TRAIN!
    Chet hang in there.  You have several things going for you.  1.) You have a solid base so if you need to take a little time off you WILL be ok.  2.) You are in great shape so if anything goes wrong (ie-surgery), you will most likely recover very quickly.  3.)  Depending on the injury if you can get through the next 6 weeks, complete your marathon, qualify for Boston, get your knee taken care of then gear up!

    In the past 5 years I have had 4 surgeries, and have managed 2 Ironman's, 5 1/2 Ironman's, climbing Mt. Rainer, Mount St. Helens, and Mt. Adams, along w/ several adventure races.

    My point is we are in shape, and able to bounce back from this stuff quicker than "the Norm!"  Most doctors understand, but do they?  You tell them you exercise, but what does that mean to them?  A run a couple miles a day 3 days a week?!?

    HOLLY--- Get your butt out in the open water! Try to go to the race early and swim out there.  Work on that sighting stuff that everyone has been beating into this thread.  Follow feet, keep someone inside of you closest to the buoy, etc...

    For your taper between the 2 races--- I would take the next day off entirely (unless maybe a very easy walk, or spin) then slowly ramp it up towards the tail end of the week, with a taper starting again on Monday before the next race.... Or maybe work a lot on your OWS in between the 2 races!!!



    To everyone else, if you have a race coming up this weekend (any weekend for that matter) let us know.  We want to be here for you.  I have a tough time following everyone's race schedule so don't sneak a race in without telling us.... PLEASE!!!!
    New Thread
    BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SWBKRUN Mentor Group-"Off Season?" What is that?!! Rss Feed  
     
     
    of 383