kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2012 Part 2 - CLOSED (Page 182)

Nice job Jen on getting invited to AG Nats! That is pretty awesome if you ask me

Hopefully all my training this offseason will lead me to get the same! 1:30 on the bike with intervals the last 30! Crazy is what is was, especially the last two. It was a good workout though. Hope everyone has a blessed day!

I am on the cancellation list.  I have to stay in network because our deductible is so high.  Cleveland Clinic is the best anyway, and I really want to see someone there.  It is serious, but if we can find out what is causing the damage, then I can keep from damaging it any further. 

This sucks.  Don't know what else to say besides it sucks.  Hope the test turn out good.

I dealt with GI issues 5 years ago (including ultrasounds a colonoscopy and an upper endoscopy).  I would wait and see what the GI doctor says before jumping to conclusions about dietary changes.  If I had to bet, I would say vegetables are likely not the culprit.

Did the docotor say anything about liver support supplements?   

^^^This. It could be as simple as a missing enzyme that you take a pill once a day for. Do the due diligence and stay the course for now.

Training with power question. I think I'm over training on trainer because my heart rate is so much lower than it would be on road. I've been using the power meter by KK that is made for the road machine but mostly just to get an average, get a 20 minute number and to see what I can maintain intervals at so I wanted to give it a shot going off of power not heart rate for everything.

I've seen all types of different computations for this that are as various as heart rate training so it's a little confusing. For 20 minutes I can maintain 250-60 watts depending on the day. So we'll use 250 as the baseline.

So one way I saw it done is:

Recovery < 70% 175 watt max

Z1 75-80% 188-200

Z2 80-90% 200-225

Tempo 90-95% 225-238

Intervals to 140% to 350

Method 2

Active recovery <55% 138 max

Endurance 56-75% 138-188

Tempo: 76-90% 189-225

LT: 91-105% 226-263

V02 Max 106-120 263-300

Anerobic > 121% 300+

Neuromuscular short burst of very high power

I would say that description one is more the way I train but it may be more of a case of percentage spent in each zone. Method 2 I cannot imagine saying below 138 Watts. I don't think my HR would hit 100.

So two questions. Which method do you use and secondly what percentage should you be doing in each zone?

Thanks.

She hasn't mentioned liver support supplements yet, but I will ask her about it the next time we talk.  I will definitely stay the course, which is GI doc first.  I just want to know what the problem is, so I can fix it or do what I need to do to maintain my health.  I don't like going to the doctor every other day (my boys don't like being dragged along to these appointments either).  The whole process is frustrating.  

How'd the test go?  

Haven't had a chance to download the data.  For the 30 minutes it appears that I averaged a bit shy of 24 mph in the high 150s for HR.

Why don't you use HR on trainer again? 

I can't answer questions about power.  Don't have a meter! 

Did you do it on the trainer?  Or outside?

I guess my first issue is that I don't like coupling HR and power (or HR and pace for that matter).  HR is a metric that measures stress on the body.  While it is not perfect, it not only measures training stress but also life stresses.  Power (or pace) are output metrics -- essentially how much work you are doing.  If you've been wicked stressed and get on the bike your HR is going to shoot right up whereas your power nubmers won't show the effects of stress.  If you "force" yourself to hit certain numbers, you're likely over doing it.

That being said, I set HR zones based on Lactate Threshold (generally using bike and run tests).  A recovery zone is less than 74% of LT, an aerobic zone is between 74% and 84% ish of LT, a tempo zone is 84%-94% of LT and speed work zone is over 97% of LT. 

In your case you're using 20 min power as LT and then applying percentages.  I'm not sure 20 min power is the best way to test LT. 

The other thing is that when talking about receovery zones, they should feel incredibly easy and painfully slow.  I was at a camp with Pat Wheeler who did IMAZ in 8:58 and turned pro and his recovery rides would all be under 100 watts.  Recovery days should be super easy do that the hard days can be super hard. 

Without really getting into the numbers, I'm much bigger fan of scenario 2 than scenario 1. 

I love that this is your first question (then again, you know I love training by HR).

Outside.  Waited until rush hour was over and snuck out.  Shhhh.

I do use HR on the trainer. The problem is I can hop on for 2 hours and average 121 BPM which is a zone 1 ride by HR but I'll average 240 watts which going by power makes it a tempo ride. Unless I'm crushing a heavy interval at a low cadenece, below 80, my heart rate doesn't go up into the 140+ range.

It tends to be more difficult to get HR up on the trainer.

The other thing to consider is that there can be consitency and accuracy issues with the KK trainer power numbers.  Its really tough to have it be consistent (which is actually more important than being accurate).

If I were you I would go by HR (and use RPE as a back up) rather than using the KK power numbers. 

Because of tire inflation and positioning on the trainer or something else? I check the tire pressure before every ride and it won't come out of the trainer until April so it would be consistent from that standpoint.

I'm not sure how to figure my HR zones since 121 on the road would be a recovery pace and on the trainer it's tempo ride. I rode this morning at 167 Watts and 102 average heart rate for 40 minutes in what I would consider a recovery pace. I picked it up to 185 watts for just one minute to see what difference that would make and I could feel my legs get fatigued very quickly and went back down. The 167 may in fact be too fast for a recovery workout based on that chart I found online about training with power. But at under 138 I have to believe my average HR would be 95 tops.

Tire inflation, wear and tear on the tire, positioning on the trainer, loosening of resistance knobs over time.  Lots of things. 

I would question the KK power meter if you're averaging 240 watts (tempo ride) and your HR is that low.  I don't know that much about power, but if it's a true tempo ride, then your HR would be higher (or your watts for tempo ride would be higher).  

Is it possible to overtrain on the trainer with a HR of 120?  I doubt it.  HRs are always lower inside vs. outside (at least mine is).  The key is to push yourself hard enough to get that HR up to where it needs to be for the workout you're doing.

It seems like you like the idea of using the KK power meter over HR (you most likely should have a different RPE scale for your trainer vs. outside).  I think it's fine to stick with the zones you've established with this device as long as you are seeing progress over time.  That's all that really matters anyway - progress over time!   

I have a very hard time getting my HR up to where it needs to be on the trainer.  The only way I can is to push a heavy gear, lower cadence.  I have TrainerRoad so I can see the virtual power on my laptop while I'm riding, as well as HR.  But I tend to go by RPE.

You know, I have a hard time getting my HR up outside too.  Unless it's on a hill.  I must be bike challenged!

So much going on!  I'm working today, on vacation tomorrow through Tuesday (the day I have the epidural injection in my back), fly to So Cal Wednesday, fly back home Thursday, on vacation Friday through the end of the year.

All this with a huge new customer starting up Jan. 2nd, several new system enhancements (including a completely new process) being implemented to support this new customer.  Testing of said enhancements and new process over the next two weeks.  7+ new employees starting on Monday, who all need training over the next two weeks to support the new customer.

I have a feeling my vacation won't be much of a vacation.

Oh and Tom & I are heading to Maui in February!

Crazy day here and I have an off day from training. 

Stressed out pregnant woman has glucose test this morning.  Enough said there.  I am getting all my stuff together so I can spend a week in Miami and the woman doing my job for that week can make heads or tails from my work stuff.  Not that there is going to be anyone in the office for the week of Christmas so why the heck am I busting my arse?

If I pushed myself on a two hour ride on the trainer to an average HR of 135-145 that would be the equivalant of doing intervals without the rest portion and I'd be junk for the week. Last winter was my first on the trainer and I just went with it. When spring came and I got outside for the first time my HR was back in the 135-145 zone for about the same effort. It's not that I like the KK meter over HR it's just that I think I need to re-adjust my HR for the trainer and I'm not quite sure how to do it.

I did 30 minutes on the trainer this morning at an average of 122W and my average HR was 91 with a max of 100. Hopefully taking the active recovery days even lower will help.