MightyMojoMentorGroup -- (Full House!) (Page 184)
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DAVE once more - I have a couple of takes on what you say in your paragraph on suffering and being able to "go deeper". Basically, i view them as two different things, or at least, at times, of being capable of operating differently. But perhaps I'm not allowing for a full range of the term "suffering", nd am viewing it selectively. To wit: As for being able to mentally suffer longer, I feel I do that okay -- provided I'm neither injured nor in full bonk mode. It (menattly handling suffering) has carried me through about 17 half-irons and two irons, and a passel of half-marathons and marathons, and lots of long training events. It took time (and some perceived agony) to get to that point, but mostly it has worked for me. part of it is having faith in my body and my training, and part is knowing when to back off so that I don't go into a trouble-spot (see cooment in earlier post about MightyMan Montauk). BUT!! I am SO with you on what happens when the inner monologue doesn't work and the pace slips and people I want to catch just keep pullin away from me. There have been a few dozen (literally!) races in which I wanted to go faster/harder on the run........but backed off............and then felt within about ten minutes of finishing that I couldaSHOULDA gone deeper. So, there's two "realities" at work -- the one that holds sway during the race, and the one that pertains after the race is over. I have done thsi long enough to suspect that i have to trust the in-race reality ------ unless I have allowed myself to be cowed and deluded for so long that I cannot see my way clear to crank it up whn my body and mind are screaming DON'T YOU DARE!!!! Having said that, it doesn't always work that I back off when the going gets tough, and I turn it on often enough that i know (think) I can -- if my body and mind aren't screaming quite so loud. yesterday, with a few hundred yards to go, a young woman passed me and I really wanted to stay with her. I tried that for maybe a hundred yards........and then let hwer pull away. However, i kept going as hard as I could, and probably finished stronger than I would've if she hadn't passed me. I was pleased that I didn't give in to a worry that she was pushing me out of my zone, which again tells me that I can do it.........whenever I can do it. But SO often, it seems, I labor post-race with the firm view that I could've put out a more "suffering" effort during the run. (I usually don't feel this about the bike, as any holding back there is due to getting lazy and/or complacenet and/or losing my focus. And on the swim I often feel I haven't worked hard enough...but as I said earlier, i don't sem to realy have a third gear there!) FINALLY, pyramids would be very good to play with, and I think they will work really well for youfor you. But talk about suffering -- brace yourself, Dave, brace yourself! Edited by stevebradley 2012-09-02 7:42 PM |
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Member![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() stevebradley - 2012-09-02 8:41 PM DAVE once more - I have a couple of takes on what you say in your paragraph on suffering and being able to "go deeper". Basically, i view them as two different things, or at least, at times, of being capable of operating differently. But perhaps I'm not allowing for a full range of the term "suffering", nd am viewing it selectively. To wit: As for being able to mentally suffer longer, I feel I do that okay -- provided I'm neither injured nor in full bonk mode. It (menattly handling suffering) has carried me through about 17 half-irons and two irons, and a passel of half-marathons and marathons, and lots of long training events. It took time (and some perceived agony) to get to that point, but mostly it has worked for me. part of it is having faith in my body and my training, and part is knowing when to back off so that I don't go into a trouble-spot (see cooment in earlier post about MightyMan Montauk). BUT!! I am SO with you on what happens when the inner monologue doesn't work and the pace slips and people I want to catch just keep pullin away from me. There have been a few dozen (literally!) races in which I wanted to go faster/harder on the run........but backed off............and then felt within about ten minutes of finishing that I couldaSHOULDA gone deeper. So, there's two "realities" at work -- the one that holds sway during the race, and the one that pertains after the race is over. I have done thsi long enough to suspect that i have to trust the in-race reality ------ unless I have allowed myself to be cowed and deluded for so long that I cannot see my way clear to crank it up whn my body and mind are screaming DON'T YOU DARE!!!! Having said that, it doesn't always work that I back off when the going gets tough, and I turn it on often enough that i know (think) I can -- if my body and mind aren't screaming quite so loud. yesterday, with a few hundred yards to go, a young woman passed me and I really wanted to stay with her. I tried that for maybe a hundred yards........and then let hwer pull away. However, i kept going as hard as I could, and probably finished stronger than I would've if she hadn't passed me. I was pleased that I didn't give in to a worry that she was pushing me out of my zone, which again tells me that I can do it.........whenever I can do it. But SO often, it seems, I labor post-race with the firm view that I could've put out a more "suffering" effort during the run. (I usually don't feel this about the bike, as any holding back there is due to getting lazy and/or complacenet and/or losing my focus. And on the swim I often feel I haven't worked hard enough...but as I said earlier, i don't sem to realy have a third gear there!) FINALLY, pyramids would be very good to play with, and I think they will work really well for youfor you. But talk about suffering -- brace yourself, Dave, brace yourself! This post reminded me of something that happened a couple of weekends ago at a local 7K I did. The route was one I have run about once a week for most of the summer. We live in a hilly area, but this route has more than usual and there are three spots that test your willingness to continue. I knew the course and knew that the 3rd mile had a real morale breaker. I decided to try to pace myself until we hit that spot, then try to pick off some people. Long story short is that we reached that nasty hill and I can see someone walking up it, but they were already 1/2 mile in front of me. It was torture knowing I had run the right pace, blown someone up, and there was nothing I could do but watch him catch his breath and continue. If I had taken it out faster I would have blown up too. I was happy with the results anyway. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Just a quick report before I go and type out a race report. Swim 750m in 17:59 (wetsuit legal and I was able to swim the entire distance with minimal trouble sighting - hard to see some buoys due to sunshine). Bike and T1 20km in 46:50 Run and T2 5km in 36:40 (not Dave or Steve type speed but I'm happy with it for now). Overall I was 151st of 176 in a time of 1:41:27. I'm pleased that it is 9:22 faster than the Apple Sprint 2 weeks ago. My T1 and T2 times were pretty fast although I'll never know exactly how long I took. As I crossed the finish line I said to myself that it was harder than the Apple Sprint. I think I just pushed myself a bit harder. Within a few minutes of my finish I was feeling pretty much back to normal. Before the adult race there were Kids of Steel races. I was amazed to see some of the really young kids running. I want to run that fast too! I'll never beat a 20minute 5K like Dave will but I'd like to run 5K in 30minutes - eventually. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Just a quick report before I go and type out a race report. Swim 750m in 17:59 (wetsuit legal and I was able to swim the entire distance with minimal trouble sighting - hard to see some buoys due to sunshine). Bike and T1 20km in 46:50 Run and T2 5km in 36:40 (not Dave or Steve type speed but I'm happy with it for now). Overall I was 151st of 176 in a time of 1:41:27. I'm pleased that it is 9:22 faster than the Apple Sprint 2 weeks ago. My T1 and T2 times were pretty fast although I'll never know exactly how long I took. As I crossed the finish line I said to myself that it was harder than the Apple Sprint. I think I just pushed myself a bit harder. Within a few minutes of my finish I was feeling pretty much back to normal. Before the adult race there were Kids of Steel races. I was amazed to see some of the really young kids running. I want to run that fast too! I'll never beat a 20minute 5K like Dave will but I'd like to run 5K in 30minutes - eventually. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GEORGE - Well done. Quite an improvement over your last race. I guess you were fully recovered. Were the courses comparable? I see you've embraced Challenge Penticton in your signature.
Here are the stats for my race today: 126 / 2,687 overall (4.8%) 104 / 1,286 men (8.1% 10 / 161 M40-44 (6.2%) Interestingly, they assigned us all an AgeGrade based on standards set by the World Association of Veteran Athletes. Mine was 66.3% which qualifies as Local Class. It's a ratio of your time against a standard for your age group: in my case :13:39 ÷ :20:33. Interesting concept that can be used to have people of different sexes and ages compete head-to-head. There were three people in today's race with AgeGrades >90% which is considered World Class. The winner qualified for the Olympic Trials in the marathon! Edited by davekeith 2012-09-02 9:52 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DOUG - Reading your account of that morale-breaking hill makes me realize yet again that all this endurance stuff can be a very cruel mistress at times. It can be positively agonizing at the time to go through something like you describe, and it can stay that way for quite a while afterwards, but over enough time those incidents just become "war stories", almost rites of passage. At least for me, most of my bad episodes only merit a sigh and a shrug anymore. And maybe even a wry grin - maybe! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GEORGE - Wonderful performance, and you sound justifiably pleased with how much more capable you felt compared with Apple. (And just wait until you've done a few more of these babies!) Can you squeeze in another one this season, somewhere, somehow? (My first season was three late-season sprints, something like Aug 20, Sept 9, Sept 22; I'm just sayin'!) Speaking of a "few more of these babies", in time you will learn where mats would likley be set out in oder to porvide five splits (S, T1, B, T2, R). That way you can hit your chrono button at the palce at which a mat would be so that you can get an idea of how your T times are --- and more importantly, a better assessment of your actual racing times. There is a growing bad habit up here (Canada) to provide only three splits, and it amkes me nuts -- and is one big factior why I don't do the local race series. It all comes down to money for the RD, as each mat and its eqyuipment costs a fair bit more. I recognize that, but it reamins imprtant ot me to know EXACTLY how my swim and bike and run times compare with others.......and that's not even remotely possible to determine when T times are included in some combination of S and B and R times. GRRRRRR!!!!! BUT what you can see from your own results is the whoppin' big difference between your finish time yesterday compared to Apple, and that is colossal. It is also telling in how far you have come that you did it in the realization that you worked that much harder yesterday, and on a more difficult course, too. Cool beans! Congrats on managing the swim so well, and I dare say you are over any swim humps that might've had your attention before -- such as breath control, or sighting. Cool beans on that, too! As for the sub-30 5km............I think you can do it if your body holds up to increased run training. (I guess your mind also has to hold up to it, in that you will need to convince yourself that you maybe even enjoy running to some extent!) Huge congrats, George ------ and keep searching for a third triathlon for this season! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() DAVE - Fabulous placements, and well-worthy of "Local Class". Onwards to "Regional Class", you think? (I can see it in your future!) At the end of the '10 season I did a stand-alone 10km one week and a half-marathon the next weekend, and I was surprised to get an email from an Ontario-based running group that also provides Age-Graded rankings. I thought that was pretty cool, as it had been so long since I did some stand-alone runs that i didn't know it even existed -- especially unsolicited by me (Big Brother is watching me??). I should try to dig those out and see how I ranked. They're on some print-out piece of paper........soemwhere.............that got moved from pile to pile to pile when we half-heartedly reorganized the room with the computer. I never throw stuff like that away, so it has to be in the house somewhere! |
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Ack. I'm thinking about doing a sprint tri next Sunday in Maine, complete with an ocean swim. But i just saw on a Boston news station that the effects of tropical storm Leslie are likely to cause big water along the New England coast --- next weekend!! Hell's bells, if that happens it'll be a tri turned into a du, I fear. Rats to that! (But I'll still probably head down there and hope for the best.) |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() TRINA - I did see your question earlier on and had it in my mind to think about it and answer until I didn't! Sorry 'bout that. The answer is, I hit Start when the workout begins and I hit Stop when I get out of the pool. That keeps one workout in one data file. In between, I segregate each interval, rest, and set by means of the Lap button. GarminConnect seems pretty good at distinguishing between swim legs and rests via the accelerometer. I think I remember reading that one of the Firmware updates (you do have the latest Firmware, right?) addressed an issue that was including rests in the overall average swim time therefore effecting speed. So, let's say I was doing 10x100 yds freestyle on 1:35 it would go like this: Hit Start Swim 100 yards; Hit Lap when I touch the wall; rest Hit Lap when I leave the wall; Swim 100 yards; hit Lap when I touch the wall; rest (repeat 9 more times) If that's your final set of the workout, hit Stop at the end. If not, just continue hitting Lap to bookend the beginnings and ends of the intervals and rests. Here's an example: http://connect.garmin.com/splits/194182288 Let me know if you think I'm missing something or if this isn't clear. With all of this running, I haven't been in the pool since July, so it's not all that fresh in my mind. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Guess what? I did a triathlon.....I haven't posted that in months it seems. Everyone is racing and progressing and I feel sort of lazy and disorganized. I did a sprint, a repeat of one I did last year, 5 minutes faster and moved up 6 places to finish 13/39 AG and 83/390 overall. Even though I am still an embarrassing swimmer I took :45 seconds off my swim time from last year and didn't get tangled in the lane ropes trying to change lanes. Good bike split and a run melt down but a good race none the less. I am thinking for next season I may shift away from long course stuff, well maybe one 70.3, and try to nail sprints-try to exploit the combination of "aging up", and another full season of training and race experience. |
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Master![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Finished my race report AND my first HIM. Better late than never, I guess. Wrote these thoughts one week prior to event: Realistically going to take me 7hr 10min if I have NO mechanical failures or body failures. In a perfect world with no wind and being extra strong with body working well, could possibly do it in about 6:50. Any structural/skeletal issues or if I have to walk, could be out there for 9 hours. Canadian 113 Half Iron - RACE REPORT: 8:10:23 PRE-RACE: Ken was up at 3:00, me 3:45. Had everything prepared the night before so just had to wash up, make coffee, load car and leave for site. On the road at 4:45 and on site at 5:00. First people in parking lot besides race organizers and was first to rack bike. End of rack, closest to the bike exit. Ken racked up beside me. Got transition pretty well set up, and body marked. Had a good sleep and felt rested so was keen to help Ken out and take some pictures. Emotional for me to see him off at the swim start and holding back tears. Got some good pictures. Headed back to van to lay down for 1/2 hr. Sleep wasn't going to happen. Picked up timing chip on way back to van. Ate my breakfast sitting in back of van at 7:00 watching all the athletes streaming into the parking lot and prepping bikes, etc, then layed down. Headed over to transition at 8:00 thinking I had lots of time to do some dynamic stretching, a tiny run etc, finish loading water bottles and Bento box. Before I knew it, it was 8:30 and people were heading to the water. Hadn't done any stretching or running. It was 8:50 by the time I got to the water and had to get wetsuit on quickly, with just enough time to get into water and get wet before they said to get out of water and line up for the beach start. Normally I would have been worried about no swim w/u but the last couple of times I have been swimming it has gone quite well without one, and had what I felt was a rather good, short swim with Steve and Ken the prior morning so didn't fret over it. SWIM: 47:33 (2.22/100m) (81/122) I decided for this race (mass start) that I wasn't going to be at the back - so was pretty close to the front on the right hand side so I wouldn't get crammed into the buoy when we turned left, after the first 40 meters. There was alot of thrashing going on which hindered the swimming for 30-40 meters maybe, but it didn't bother me. Good swim - other than following a bunch of people of course initially for quite a distance after turning left at the first buoy (but at least I was strong, BIKE: 3:25:10 (26.31) (108/122) Bike Splits: 6 laps - 32.36 - a bit over 15km; 31.49; 33.08; 34.00 (stood a few times to try and work out lower back); wind change, and hips getting tighter; 35.07 riding plus .50 to stop at base of hill and put chain back on; gave up mentally on last lap (38.11) Felt pretty good on the bike for the first 3 laps (45km). Had decided pre-race to set pace for 26 km/hr average with the usual ups (38km/hr) and downs (21-23km/hr) as the winds and road dictated. Right off the bat I could tell my hips were really out because of massive pressure on the right sit bone but was hopeful the riding would work things out. My other big goal was to keep the high cadence and ‘watch’ the watts (by the change in pressure on the feet), not pushing the gears and working too hard. This is a course where you get no reprieve - you pedal non-stop for 90km. I have consistently had higher average speeds on ‘tougher’, hilly courses by as much as 2km/hr. Winds come into play a lot on this course in that they can change from lap to lap so you can’t count on any consistency. Going 38km/hr on the return lap for 3 loops and then the wind shifts and we were hitting 27km/hr on the return trip. Initially, I thought it was just me tiring, but at the awards breakfast several of the athletes were commenting on the wind shift and intensity. So, on the 4thlap took some time twice to stand out of the saddle and stretch and work out the sacrum. Slowed a bit. My average speed for the first 45km was 27.12. Wind change happening and hips getting tighter, standing more often on the 5th lap plus .50 to stop at base of hill and put chain back on; I gave up a bit mentally on last lap and tried to just work out the lower back and riding sitting upright rather than aero. Started to question whether I would be able to run. Left foot was numb which was another indication of sacrum problem. Couldn't really move getting off bike and had to take baby steps back to the timing mat. But did it with a smile. Didn’t have my Garmin - had forgotten piece to charge it so was trying to remember to drink and I did but maybe not enough - 20 oz of water in the first 1.5hrs and 20 oz of with electrolytes in the next 1.5. I had another 20 but didn’t get into it. Should have. Forgot to put a couple of food items in my Bento box but had 3 Vega Endurance bars and although I thought I was eating often, seems I only ate 1.5 (270 calories). Looked back a few times walking back to bike rack and saw 3 other athletes walking bike so didn’t feel so bad. I wasn’t feeling sick but wasn’t quite right. Not dizzy but just a bit queasy. Took a bit of effort to rack bike and just went at everything methodically. T2 - 16.30 - Took this long to psych myself up to leave the transition zone - tried to work the lower back out - sat down and ate 4 raisin walnut truffels (probably messed up on nutrition - yet again -took in about 350 calories over 8 hrs - should have had about 1700.) Put on toe socks, shoes, hat, etc. - walked around - talked to medical person because she noticed I was hesitant I guess and tried to convince me it was best not to run - kept walking around then hovered at the timing mat before biting the bullet and running over it. RUN: 3:31:36 (9:59 pace) Run Splits: 4 laps of 5.3ish km - 51.56; 53.30, 59.59, 46.11. Did 3 sets of ‘running’ for 6 min, walking 1min, to the 3km mark and each set got tougher and tougher and by the last set couldn’t lift leg legs and my lower back, left side of sacrum was starting to feel sharp pains at times with the tail bone area really locked up. Knew I couldn't do the entire distance w/o either hurting myself or DNF'ing which wasn't an option at this point. Saw Steve on the return of the first lap which really helped the spirits although I felt disappointed that he had to see me walking and had to tell him I REALLY tried to run but it just wasn’t going to happen. He walked with me a bit and I continued on to finish that loop and met up with him again on the 2nd and 3rd loops. At the end of every 5.3km loop we entered the outdoor stadium and past the grandstands full of people. No way I was walking there so I did enter and exit running every time. It would have been too embarrassing having all those people cheering and screaming like they were with me walking. They definitely provided a boost. Walked the 2nd loop but did try running now and then for a VERY short distance; walked most of the third loop - but started running 15 steps; walking 10 steps and on the last loop decided I wasn't going to walk and 'ran' the entire distance in 46 min. Actually finished kind of strong. The volunteers along the route were really supportive and always watching out for the athletes, asking if they needed anything and the people at the water stations were absolutely AMAZING. I tried a gel after the first 8km but that wasn’t going down, so after the 10km turn around took a quarter cup of smarties and wolfed them down and I think they actually helped. Did the same after the 15km turn around and added a few pretzels with them. They seemed to help too so that was when I started to think I messed up on the fuel. I didn’t think it was that hot but apparently it was. Probably didn’t drink enough on the run - I was drinking one of my 8 oz bottles in 5.3km while Ken said he went through at least 2 of them. The announcer and the spectators made me quite emotional running down the finish chute and crossing the finish line. REALLY had to hold back tears. Cannot stress enough how participant focussed this event is. POST RACE: One of the volunteers gave me some water and told me to keep walking and walked with me for 3 or 4 minutes, then directed me to the massage tent. Liked that idea and was able to get one almost immediately. Therapist said I was definitely in much better shape than most of the participants she had been looking after that day. Then I started to feel guilty about not working hard enough. Got a burger and spent the rest of the night going between transition and van and the grandstand and cheering Ken on. Took some pictures of Ken on the run course. Noticed when I loaded Ken's bike into van that my front tire had gone flat. THAT was close! Was waiting for Ken at the finish line behind the photographer and got him crossing with hands in the air. Holding back the tears yet again! He was amazing. FINAL THOUGHTS: There were definitely some issues with the body that prevented me from having the run I would have liked but I have this nagging feeling that it was my mind that got the better of me more than my body. For the past month I have been overly anxious about running too much or too hard and hurting myself and even though I have done several half iron aqua/bikes, have never run off them. I managed them OK in the training, possibly because I didn't have to think about a DNF, but it seems I developed an irrational fear of doing this event. Once I had 15km completed, the fear started to ease a bit and I was able to run the final loop OK. Now that I have done this distance, I think with proper nutrition and more practice running off the bike, I would be able to do another one with more confidence.
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JEFF - Hey! Welcome back to the land of the living! Yes, it has been quite a while since you posted about a tri, but i just attributed it to you spending too much time training for Redman. o fcourse, i'm a big advocate of racing, but i really do think that a nice, short, low-key triathlon here and there in the iron training provides a great mental break. Did yesterday's ahve any of that effect on you? As I'm sure I have said, it takes lots of time and experience to mail that balance betweem strong bike leg and running well after it; for me it was years. In fact, it wasn't until about '07, when I decided that my best route to great half-irons was to hone my skills really well at sprints and olys, with a firm eye on running really well off really hard bike efforts. I just figured I needed to learn that sequentially, almost, with aceing it at sprints, and then applying that to olys, and then onto half-irons. Mostly, that worked -- although my body's little rebellions the past two years have kept me from half-irons! (Oh nooooooo.............) Youre probably right that a 6-minute differential between stand-alone 5km and sprint 5km is too much...........and maybe, just maybe, one of the two courses was mismeasured (and I know you would much prefer to think that it was the tri run course that was measured long!). But if both were bang on, then you do have some work ahead of you to get to that balance. You mentioned maybe needing more bricks, and I'd agree -- with the stipulation that they are highly structured. To address your specific "problem" of riding hard but not running as well as you might like, you could try a hard 6-mile ride, and then follow that with your best 5km effort. Or do a "regulation" sprint ride of 12 or 13 miles, but at 19mph, then follow that with your best 5km run effort, and see how the latter goes. it might be that you can indeed run well ioff the bike ---- but only if the bike pace is around or slightly under 19mph. Part of the years it took to run well off the bike saw me running well -- but only if the bike effort was just as I said, about 19mph. Doing that jump up to 21+mph, and then running well in sprints and olys was what took lots of time. As for shoes, think about elastic laces!! Or, barrring that, apply BodyGlide or Vaseline liberally to the back collar of the shoes just so they will go on even more quickly. Granted, this involves just an improvement measured in single-digit seconds, but it all helps, right? It seems there was another item I wanted to address, but if there was, it's eluded me. Oops! Very good race for you, a sweet improvement over last year's time; congrats!! |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ANNE - Congratulations on your HIM finish! Can't believe you've already written your RR. Overachiever! Seriously, quite an accomplishment. Just saw a cryptic note from Eclipse Multisport (the group behind the Nickel City Tri) saying they will be introducing a new event (maybe HIM distance?) that will be of interest to the Pittsburgh Tri Club. Excited to hear what it is. We're must be in between several race org territories. Pirhana is out of Delaware and they come all the way here to put on the Pittsburgh Triathlon. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ANNE - I haven't done my RR yet, and you pull into the station with the magnum opus of all RRs. (Can I blame mine not being up yet on writing too much to DAVE last night?!?) SOOOO much there to read and think about, I'll need a couple days to get back to you on it all! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ANNE again - My run yesterday was psot-swim, so from the parking spot at Malfa, onto Riverside, onto Hog's Back.......and then following the course for the HIM and IM runs. (Well, I didn't do the spur up the slope and into the stadium.) Fairly nice course, and probably an improvement over the old one. I think the riser up revelstoke back to Riverside was reasonable ---although Ken, having done it EIGHT TIMES maybe sees it a bit differently! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JOHANNE - A sneak preview of your results tells me that you and Dave were two peas in a pod, almost like conjoined twins ---- except at the end, where he either gallantly give you that one second, or you so ruthlessly snatched it from him! But other than that, your three previous splits were eactly the same. Lovebirds!! |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() stevebradley - 2012-09-03 8:00 PM JEFF - Hey! Welcome back to the land of the living! Yes, it has been quite a while since you posted about a tri, but i just attributed it to you spending too much time training for Redman. o fcourse, i'm a big advocate of racing, but i really do think that a nice, short, low-key triathlon here and there in the iron training provides a great mental break. Did yesterday's ahve any of that effect on you? As I'm sure I have said, it takes lots of time and experience to mail that balance between strong bike leg and running well after it; for me it was years. In fact, it wasn't until about '07, when I decided that my best route to great half-irons was to hone my skills really well at sprints and olys, with a firm eye on running really well off really hard bike efforts. I just figured I needed to learn that sequentially, almost, with aceing it at sprints, and then applying that to olys, and then onto half-irons. Mostly, that worked -- although my body's little rebellions the past two years have kept me from half-irons! (Oh nooooooo.............) Youre probably right that a 6-minute differential between stand-alone 5km and sprint 5km is too much...........and maybe, just maybe, one of the two courses was mismeasured (and I know you would much prefer to think that it was the tri run course that was measured long!). But if both were bang on, then you do have some work ahead of you to get to that balance. You mentioned maybe needing more bricks, and I'd agree -- with the stipulation that they are highly structured. To address your specific "problem" of riding hard but not running as well as you might like, you could try a hard 6-mile ride, and then follow that with your best 5km effort. Or do a "regulation" sprint ride of 12 or 13 miles, but at 19mph, then follow that with your best 5km run effort, and see how the latter goes. it might be that you can indeed run well ioff the bike ---- but only if the bike pace is around or slightly under 19mph. Part of the years it took to run well off the bike saw me running well -- but only if the bike effort was just as I said, about 19mph. Doing that jump up to 21+mph, and then running well in sprints and olys was what took lots of time. As for shoes, think about elastic laces!! Or, barrring that, apply BodyGlide or Vaseline liberally to the back collar of the shoes just so they will go on even more quickly. Granted, this involves just an improvement measured in single-digit seconds, but it all helps, right? It seems there was another item I wanted to address, but if there was, it's eluded me. Oops! Very good race for you, a sweet improvement over last year's time; congrats!! That was today's race, Labor Day here. A possible pattern emerges in how my seasons unfold, and it may even match years passed if I can remember. It seems that late summer is when "stuff happens" to throw me off my game. I was at a pretty good peak the early part of August and even late May. I might want to consider placing my big race of the year to match this. IM KY would have landed just about right for me instead of Redman, and I think I could have been up for IM Texas had I planned it that way instead the serious ramping up of training hours corresponded with the serious increase in heat and intense heat...like 90 degrees at 10pm...and also hits when my mental clutch begins to slip and other life stuff happens. Just a thought. I had previously used elastic laces but let it slide over the last three pairs of shoes..the leave them tied and slip em on approach worked in Branson, and Kansas as well as several little sprints but these shoes are only a few weeks old and I simply hadn't fooled with them enough. I know I had gotten really lax about bricks, I used the length of my training as an excuse..I had some flimsy logic to support this. The 20 mph average had become some sort of Holy Grail for me, the new bike, aero helmet and finding some of my old form and volume made it reachable-even if it wasn't rational. This week I really needed it emotionally/psychologically because I felt like I had lost something over the last three weeks I/E-I over E as in intellect over emotion-if I can remember that I can make better choices. At that last 5k I had my android phone with Strava and got a perfect 5k based on that..some others using Strava posted the same, so I am going to assume it was measured correctly, today's course felt a tad long but that is highly subjective and not reliable, Ill poke around for some one elses GPS data. Another week of 102 coming then a break promised by the weekend..And hopefully rain for OKC to lower the water temperature. Edited by Av8rTx 2012-09-03 10:23 PM |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My rr is up on my blog. More of a fun time then a race but that's ok! I want to read all the new rr but I'm headed to bed soon so I will tomorrow. Sounds like a good weekend for all Johanne |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() stevebradley - 2012-09-03 8:00 PM JOHANNE - A sneak preview of your results tells me that you and Dave were two peas in a pod, almost like conjoined twins ---- except at the end, where he either gallantly give you that one second, or you so ruthlessly snatched it from him! But other than that, your three previous splits were eactly the same. Lovebirds!! Look up Laura too. We stayed together the whole way and finished with all 3 of us holding hands. More family time then a race but that is ok |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JOHANNE - I had forgotten that Laura was part of the scene! It amazes me sometimes the stuff I forget, and I would've enjoyed the thrill of seeing if her times matched those of her 'rents. Although I have to admit that I would've guessed that, young pup that she is, she would've forged ahead on her own and planned a meet-up post-race. That said, however, a meet-up with 15000 milling about is never easy. I think the number was something along those lines, anyhow. If I remember, your chip time was about seven minutes "faster" than gun time, indicating a looooong shuffle to the start line. Mercy! I will get to you RR in a while; can hardly wait to see the photos!! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JEFF - It never ceases to amaze me that people from your neck of the woods manage to do big-distance races late in the season. I'm just addressing that from the heat point of view, as I could not contemplate long rides and runs in killer heat. So, I agree with you that earlier in the year might help you out some. Those early-season irons are ahrd to find, however, with Utah being one and Texas being another. Utah is a wicked course, and Texas has a very unpopular swim, which are the main reasions why neither has filled yet for '13 Couer d'Alene also has spots, and it isn't until late June, but I think its problem is kind of the reverse of your own -- people get put off by its history of unpredicatbly high temps on the run. If you decide to just do one 70.3 a year, you have good options -- N.O. and Texas in late April or early May, and Buffalo Springs in late June, and of course your buddy, KS. And those are just the ones that are an easy drive for you. Your logic for not doing bricks in your Redman training is NOT flimsy. First goal is to get comfortable with the distances, and way behind that is knocking off semi-speed-based bricks. Nothing in a conventional shortish brick prepares one for the demands of an iron, unless the user is planning to go sub-10, or probably even sub-9. The best that bricks in iron training can do is to "prepare" one for the first mile or so out of T2, just feeling the run muscles striving to get functional. So, an iron brick should be a long ride followed by a very short run (10-15....maybe 20 min), at least for the first bunch of 'em. It won't hurt, once or twice, maybe, to do a longer run off a long ride, but the caveat emptor there is the wildly increased risk of injury. That's why so few people can manage two irons in close (as in 2-3 months) proximity to each other --- and why long bricks in iron training score so low on a risk-benifit scale. But to do shorter speed bricks in iron training will have no pertinence to handling the 26.2 miles, as few people even come remotely clsoe to playing with speed during those 26.2 miles. My coach used to tell me that I could look at doing a couple of shorter races leading up to my irons, but that they should be either "B"- or "C"-priority ones --- no "A" ones that would require focused short-distance training! Another aspect of that is that people can hurt themselves trying to blast out a real fast run in a sprint, and so it all can come down to this: pick my priorities real carefully as to whether I want to do PR-type sprints and olys leading up to an iron (or, arguably, a half-iron), or do the very best I can at the goal-iron. (FWIW, he really had to work hard to get me on that page.) Whew! Glad the 5km course was "real". I didn't really doubt that, as your time on it seemed perfectly in line with your training and overall run progression. And that's not to say that yesterday's was overlong, as it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility that one can miss their stand-alone time by multiple minutes -- especially offof a hard-ridden bike. Finally, I fully understand the "Holy Grail" aspect of riding fast. I am talking to ANNE about that, and I know from my own experience the risks that skulk around when one tries to bring, say, 40km bike speed to a half-iron -- and hope to run as well off the half-iron bike as they do off the 40km ride. It took me quite a while to learn how to bring sprint bike-run speeds into an oly -- and actually pull it off!!!! -- and my best advice to you is to just keep plugging away at getting better and better and better at riding at H.G. (holy grail) pace and then running at your stand-alone 5km pace. I am sure it will come for you; just be patient and diligent! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Mr Procrastination here is still, um, working on his race report. Maybe this evening? ??????? |
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