Yanti and Lynn, Mentors of the Manatee Melee: FULL (Page 19)

In lieu of cake I have been eating stroopwafel.

oh noes! You don't know what stroopwafel are? wow ... they are almost as good and addictive as Pop Tarts.

deliriousxix - 2011-05-20 11:33 PM My first tri is in a week and a couple of days!!! :-0. Getting very nervous, but I'm pretty excited! A few questions that came up this week:1) I tried to do a brick workout without socks... Ouch. 3 big blisters on one foot and two on the other . Should I just take the time to put on the socks in transition or is there something y'all do to keep your feet blister free?2) I timed my 400m swim the other day and I finished at roughly 9 min. I feel like I am a decent swimmer and I am comfortable in open water. I am worried about the thrash of people though. My swim instructor told me to start in the front on the side.. But I've heard horror stories about starting in the front on your first tri. what do y'all think?3) do you taper on a C race? I am running 3-4 tris this summer and my first one is just kind of my stepping stone. It's actually a mini sprint.. And the race my program is structured for is a generic sprint. I'm not really sure what to do this upcoming week.

Oooh we are very excited for you, too

Yikes, if your feet are blistering on a brick without even being wet, I would take the time to put socks on.

The only lube I've found that will stay on through the swim, through running through sand, straight through to the end of a sockless tri, etc. is SportShield roll-on.

Do. Not. Start. In. Front. Do I have to put that in caps? Not even if you're off to the side. Unless you're way off to the side, as in, not even standing close to the pack.

You might want to take it easy the day or two before, nothing too intense, but I looked at your logs and you've been putting up decent volume for a while, so even if you just repeated that the week of your tri (if that's what your training plan has, for example) you'll be fine.

GOOOOOOOOOOD LUUUUUUUUUUUCK and, above all:

HAVE FUN.

You only get one first cherry-poppin' tri.

deliriousxix - 2011-05-20 8:33 AM My first tri is in a week and a couple of days!!! :-0. Getting very nervous, but I'm pretty excited! A few questions that came up this week:1) I tried to do a brick workout without socks... Ouch. 3 big blisters on one foot and two on the other . Should I just take the time to put on the socks in transition or is there something y'all do to keep your feet blister free?2) I timed my 400m swim the other day and I finished at roughly 9 min. I feel like I am a decent swimmer and I am comfortable in open water. I am worried about the thrash of people though. My swim instructor told me to start in the front on the side.. But I've heard horror stories about starting in the front on your first tri. what do y'all think?3) do you taper on a C race? I am running 3-4 tris this summer and my first one is just kind of my stepping stone. It's actually a mini sprint.. And the race my program is structured for is a generic sprint. I'm not really sure what to do this upcoming week.

You will have a ball - just enjoy the experience.  I agree with Yanti - don't start in the front.  Think about the time you will spend in the swim Vs the bike and run - you won't loose by a few seconds by starting in the back.  If they happen to have chips at the swim start (some do, some don't), you time does not actually start until you cross the timing mat, so you loose nothing.

I aways wear socks and will continue to do so.  Last thing I want is a blister since that will more than eliminate any time that I saved by not putting on a sock - think about running for 3 or so miles with a blister Vs the 2 seconds used to put on socks.  I do wear bootie type and they slip on easy.  I've thought about not using socks, but if you are not buying shoes (bike and run) with a liner, it could be a problem that will never go away.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY YANTI! LOVED THE CAKE PIC!

TEDDIE-your testing souds awesome!

Happy Friday everyone! Hope everyone has a great weekend.

I did a 25 mile bike ride today and it went o.k.  I have to say, I need a lot more T.I.T.S!!!!  I have a scary feeling that the bike may be my undoing.  I am amazed at how people can sustain above 18 miles an hour for a 56 plus mile rides.  This is a weird question, but do you guys feel that the breathing is different on the bike than the run?  I don't know whether I'm more comfortable running or I'm just out of shape on the bike, but when I'm on the bike, my breathing is rapid and I feel I'm working so hard cardio wise.  When I'm running, I'm more relaxed and my breathing is more controlled.  Weird.

Needless to say, I'm going to get in a lot more rides before my HIM.  I hope it's not too late.  I'm starting to get a little nervous.   My HIM is July 17!!!!  Any thoughts to the more experienced bike people out there?

What training plan are you following, and what does it say? (Yes, I've looked at your logs ...)

Are you riding on terrain different than what you're running on? (e.g., flat run will almost always be easier than hilly bike)

When was your last bike fitting?

If your effort level on the bike feels a lot harder than the run ... bike slower. Or bike as slowly as you need to in order to cover your planned time or distance, and not be dead for the rest of the day or your next workout.

Figure out what that pace is (do you have a bike computer?). For this race, you are not going to get faster, but you will be able to (reasonably comfortably, or at least enough to sustain a half-marathon run after) go longer.

If that pace (along with your approx swim/run paces) will still likely put you under the bike cutoff, no worries!

If it doesn't, then decide whether you're okay with giving the race a shot and possibly being pulled off the course (which HIM is it again, btw? Or did you ever say which race it was).

What training plan are you following, and what does it say? (Yes, I've looked at your logs ...)

Are you riding on terrain different than what you're running on? (e.g., flat run will almost always be easier than hilly bike)

When was your last bike fitting?

If your effort level on the bike feels a lot harder than the run ... bike slower. Or bike as slowly as you need to in order to cover your planned time or distance, and not be dead for the rest of the day or your next workout.

Figure out what that pace is (do you have a bike computer?). For this race, you are not going to get faster, but you will be able to (reasonably comfortably, or at least enough to sustain a half-marathon run after) go longer.

If that pace (along with your approx swim/run paces) will still likely put you under the bike cutoff, no worries!

If it doesn't, then decide whether you're okay with giving the race a shot and possibly being pulled off the course (which HIM is it again, btw? Or did you ever say which race it was).

Yanti, In response to your questions,I am doing Racine 70.3 in Wisconsin.  My run terrain is similar to the bike terrain...roads and some rollers.  The bike portion of Racine is rolling, but nothing extremely hilly.

I'm following a HIM training program from Trinewbies.com.  Have I been following it closely? No I haven't.  Working,  life and kids have made it very hard to follow a two workout a day program.  I have been able to follow it better after  I did my HM 3 weeks ago, but than I got sick and missed three days of training.  I'm confident I can complete the HIM, but I also know it may be painful.

I really haven't been professionally fitted in years (1997).  This is how old my current bike is.  My bike has been updated over the years.  Yes, I know a bike fitting is something that would greatly benefit me now.  My bike feels pretty comfortable other than my girly parts hurting after an hour and a half of riding.  I have a bike computer that tells me how many MPH I'm going and the distance.  Your basic bike computer, nothing fancy. 

It just seems frustrating when I work so hard to only sustain 16 maybe 17mph.  I know weather plays a factor, but my engine is weak when it comes to breaking through those wind gusts.  LOL, and it's probably not that windy.   I'm going to ride more per my plan and update my progress.  At this point I need to up my volume and stay consistent.  If I can get through the bike with enough energy to rock my run, than I'll be pleased.  The whole point of doing this HIM, was to do something crazy and have fun doing it without being carried away on a stretcher.  

deliriousxix - 2011-05-20 10:33 AM My first tri is in a week and a couple of days!!! :-0. Getting very nervous, but I'm pretty excited! A few questions that came up this week:1) I tried to do a brick workout without socks... Ouch. 3 big blisters on one foot and two on the other . Should I just take the time to put on the socks in transition or is there something y'all do to keep your feet blister free?2) I timed my 400m swim the other day and I finished at roughly 9 min. I feel like I am a decent swimmer and I am comfortable in open water. I am worried about the thrash of people though. My swim instructor told me to start in the front on the side.. But I've heard horror stories about starting in the front on your first tri. what do y'all think?3) do you taper on a C race? I am running 3-4 tris this summer and my first one is just kind of my stepping stone. It's actually a mini sprint.. And the race my program is structured for is a generic sprint. I'm not really sure what to do this upcoming week.

GOOD LUCK!    I always wear socks.  It's your first tri so you don't want to be uncomfortable.  I run with the socks I'm using on the bike. 

RE: the swim, you will get a bit beat up in the front.  The problem with starting too much "on the side" is that you could be so far out that your distance is more.  I would start mid pack if you feel comfortable with your time.  And here's a tip:  of course, try not to hit people.  But you will.  You might be swimming a straight line but others may cross your path.  So if you hit someone, keep going (unless your hit has put that swimmer in serious distress. Then do help.)  But if it's a knock, pull, scratch etc.  don't stop and apologize.  Keep going.  Others who hit you will likely not stop to see if you're ok.  It's kind of a jungle out there LOL.  And remember you can always hold on to the buoys and if you find yourself freaking out, immediately turn yourself over and float until you can relax.  You can continue swimming with the backstroke if needed.  

This is a personal choice for I know folks who don't do it.  But, if you do see a swimmer in distress, do ask if they need help.  Remind them they can hold on to the buoys.  Or if necessary, call out the safety folks.  Don't get near them from the front or side if they are in serious panic mode, though.  Instinctively, they will hold on to you for support and compromise your safety.  You always approach and grab a swimmer in distress from the back. 

This is most likely because you have a stronger base in running.  If you finished a half in sub 2, you are in great shape with running.  But, it seems you don't have that same volume/cardio base with biking.  It will come as you put more miles in and combine zone 1/2 with higher zones workouts.  I'm not familiar with trinewbies' plan.  But, hopefully, they have you doing base building in z1-2 with some intervals here and there. 

RE: your bike volume up to now I think it's low for a race on 7/17. BUT! it's not impossible to gain improvements between now and then, specially since you have the running under control.  So, push the nervousness aside and just focus on riding as much as you can.  I wouldn't be worrying about speed right now. In fact, since time/family/illness issues have affected your training, you may have to settle for 15/16 avg on the bike, and get it done with enough mojo left to finish the run.  To control the heart rate issue, either slow down or reduce cadence. 

I'd focus on building your riding base in the next weeks.  Since time is an issue, I would reduce the running and increase the riding to, at least, 4x/week if not 5.  I know we all abhor the trainer.  But, it does save time.  You can literally wake up and get on it right away and have a focused session.  Don't freak out yourself thinking that every ride has to be long.  The key will be consistency.  It's easier for the body to recover from 100 miles spread over 5 rides than doing a century.  So try to be consistent with getting the miles in even if they're short rides.  But, each ride should have a purpose of endurance or speed (intervals) or combination like some of the plans here in BT.  I would also make sure that at least one ride a week is, at least, 2-2.5 hrs long-even if you have to stop and take breaks or go very slow.  Again, you need volume. The first long rides will be painful and will leave you very tired.  But, stick with it.  As you begin to feel better about the riding, I'd begin to had small bricks to your riding.  By small, I mean maybe run :30 after your ride and slowly increase the time.

Actually, you sound right on with all of that. As for the girly parts, that's gonna seriously suck during your longer rides to come and HIM. Maybe look into a new saddle? Part of it is just toughening them up (can you go for longer now before they hurt? In other words, ARE they toughening up already?)

Remember if you up your bike volume significantly, go slower on the longer rides and don't go harder than you have been on the shorter ones.

trainforacure - 2011-05-22 7:34 AM

deliriousxix - 2011-05-20 10:33 AM My first tri is in a week and a couple of days!!! :-0. Getting very nervous, but I'm pretty excited! A few questions that came up this week:1) I tried to do a brick workout without socks... Ouch. 3 big blisters on one foot and two on the other . Should I just take the time to put on the socks in transition or is there something y'all do to keep your feet blister free?2) I timed my 400m swim the other day and I finished at roughly 9 min. I feel like I am a decent swimmer and I am comfortable in open water. I am worried about the thrash of people though. My swim instructor told me to start in the front on the side.. But I've heard horror stories about starting in the front on your first tri. what do y'all think?3) do you taper on a C race? I am running 3-4 tris this summer and my first one is just kind of my stepping stone. It's actually a mini sprint.. And the race my program is structured for is a generic sprint. I'm not really sure what to do this upcoming week.

 RE: the swim, you will get a bit beat up in the front.  The problem with starting too much "on the side" is that you could be so far out that your distance is more.  I would start mid pack if you feel comfortable with your time.  And here's a tip:  of course, try not to hit people.  But you will.  You might be swimming a straight line but others may cross your path.  So if you hit someone, keep going (unless your hit has put that swimmer in serious distress. Then do help.)  But if it's a knock, pull, scratch etc.  don't stop and apologize.  Keep going.  Others who hit you will likely not stop to see if you're ok.  It's kind of a jungle out there LOL.  And remember you can always hold on to the buoys and if you find yourself freaking out, immediately turn yourself over and float until you can relax.  You can continue swimming with the backstroke if needed.  

This is a personal choice for I know folks who don't do it.  But, if you do see a swimmer in distress, do ask if they need help.  Remind them they can hold on to the buoys.  Or if necessary, call out the safety folks.  Don't get near them from the front or side if they are in serious panic mode, though.  Instinctively, they will hold on to you for support and compromise your safety.  You always approach and grab a swimmer in distress from the back. 

This is outstanding advice regarding the potential swimming mosh-pit (you never know, sometimes it's surprisingly clear ... not usually, and probably not in a mini sprint), water safety, and being a good tri-citizen.

As for starting too much on the side ... heh ... it would appear so, but it is not so. I'm a FOP swimmer and have used the trick of starting WAAAAY off to the side in order to get a clear line during a short race. (By the time I meet up with the front pack at the first buoy, it's usually already thinned out a wee bit.) With ALMOST NO cost to distance.

For example, if the first buoy is 200m out and I start 20m (that's far!) off to the side, my swim to the buoy is a whopping ONE METER LONGER.

Pythagoras ... x^2 + y^2 = z^2

200^2 + 20^2 = z^2

sqroot(40,400) = z

201m = z

Indeed on all counts. As for the TNO plan, it's actually very bike-heavy, significantly more so than the BT beginner HIM plan. So honestly, if you've been following the TNO plan more or less (or start following it now, with the build-up/safety/slower caveats) you'll be prepared to finish.

Yep, pretty much right on. Also, those shorter rides add up. If you can stick with the TNO plan and add a couple 2-3 short rides even 15-30 min each a week, nothing too intense, I'm talking nightgown on the trainer is fine ... wait ... do you have a trainer? No? Ok, then better PJs. Don't forget your helmet.

At this point, I would not worry about speed, though. You need bigger T.I.T.S., period. You will get enough higher-intensity work on the hills.

Speaking of hills, a word about bike execution on a rolling/hilly course:

Take it easy up the hills as much as possible. Spin up in light gear. BOMB THE DOWNHILLS as much as you're comfortable regarding speed and safety. Many people will make the opposite mistake and blow themselves up trying to "attack" the hills and then being too wiped to properly take advantage of the downhills.

You'll actually reap the same benefits if you just run off the bike 5-15 minutes each time, and those are mostly mental benefits. The nice thing about being a solid runner is that you can take some proportion of those minutes (say they add up to 40 minutes total--you can bag say 20-30 minutes total off your weekly runs and throw in a nice little bikey-bike instead).

Sorry, John, gotta disagree on most counts here (feel free to rebut. It's an open world and God knows I'm not always right. I just think so). All of your points have some merit, but this is why I don't see them working well, or working well in the way you propose, in Claire's case.

I would not recommend single-leg pedal drills for a relative newbie, and very rarely for more experienced riders. Especially since, at this point, Claire needs T.I.T.S. Better to just ride.

As far as cadence goes, that's a really individual thing. As long as you're not murdering your knees going uphill or the gears are so light you're spinning the pedals out of control, pedal at whatever cadence seems most sustainable to you. You'll settle into what's best for you and your riding style over time. There is no predetermined "best" for an individual, whether it's a number or matching one's own run cadence. I see your point about pedaling to her strength, but her body is likely to best find that strength for the bike on its own.

Max heart rate is a useless training metric. There is no way to gauge for continuing fitness. Lactate Threshold Heart Rate is much easier to test for (field tests) and accounts for increasing fitness. Also, since Claire isn't using heart rate zones to train at this point, so it's not going to be particularly useful to start now.

Finally, since she isn't complaining about structural pain on the bike (just exertion), I wouldn't recommend trying any setup changes either.

Thanks for all the replies guys.

I did a 42 mile ride today and I actually enjoyed myself.  I put aside the pressure of speed and time and just rode.  I was by myself, so I think that helped.  I'm a little tired, as to be expected, but am proud that I put in my miles.  I have a waaaays to go before I'm ready to tackle the HIM, but If I'm consistent, I can do it without a lot of suffering.  

My husband suggested I would benefit from a spin class once a week to change things up and to have a ride that is about intensity.  I've taken plenty of spin classes, but am NOT consistent with them.  Sooo I'm going to put that on my agenda as one of my bike rides every week.

Yanti, yes I think I might get a new saddle.  I do need to toughen up "my area", but I have to admit, my saddle is a little worn.    

Anywhoo, thanks again and feel free to add any more advice. I could use it constantly.  

I started using CEP Running O2 socks to help with the calf issues I have.  They are really helping.  When I was researching them, I found a lot of info on folks using them to prevent shin splints.  They swore by it.  So maybe that will help.

Also, RE: the underwear.  You didn't mean wear underwear under the biking shorts, right?  It should be all naturale with lots of slathering of whatever cream/ointment one likes.  LOL

(Editors' note:  author did use underwear the very first time she wore biking shorts. And she used no chaffing cream. Both quads and the family jewels were fried the next morning.)