Baowolf's Mentor Group - Sorry Closed. (Page 19)

Hi Group,

first 21k on a treadmil for me this weekend. Not as bad as I feared, but watching a movie sure helped. So with this, I only had one hour to reach my weekly target of 10h, but this was not so easy to complete! We had an un-planned amount of snow so  I had to wake up at 7am to shovel the driveway and clean the cars to take the kids to their judo and basketball classes. Get out at 7 and it was pouring (rain that is...), so 1h of workout lifting the heaviest snow ever. Then off to the classes and back, lunch and had to finish the driveway in the PM. Temp dropped abruptly, so there I am scrapping ice this time for another 2 hours. Did not log this, but I had to kick myself to do my 1h on the trainer.... Ironically, I realize now I am missing 15minutes to get to my 600 minutes!!! Oh well...

Steve, say I wanted to increase the mileage on my long slow run, what progression would you suggest now that I have reached 21km? 

What is everyone up to next week training-wise? Who is taking the 1h continuous swim challenge?

Fred 

Fred, try to not read this as negative.... but I am concerned.  Your long run went 0, 0, 7, 10, 13 miles.  Way to crazy of an increase in mileage.  Your long run has been 30%, 40% and 65% of your weekly miles.  Your long run should be a max of 50% of your weekly miles, but 35-40% is much better.  So you should only be increasing your long run by 10% or roughly 1 mile per week where you increased it by 7, 3 (43%) and 3 (30%).  And you need to increase the consistency/frequency of your running to support your long run.  Also, this should be a recovery week for you so you should be running .6 x 13 =8 for your long run and then pick back up with 14 the week after.  The good news is that you have a decent run pace starting out, bad news you are training it in a not so good way.    

Help me fill in the blanks so that your build does not look as dangerous as it looks on paper.  Also what race are you preparing for and how long do you have until the race?  Sorry I didn't write down everyone's upcoming races to compare against their training logs.     

Pam, you should be ok with just the 17 as long as everything else was in place in your build.  The training is in the bank taper and enjoy your race.  Going in healthy and well rested should be good.  It ishard to tell how you are doing based on BT logs.  Last week your long was 68% of your weekly miles (total 25), previous week (recovery week?) was (Total 22) 40%, previous week was like twice that many miles and didn't see the long run posted the week before that. I guess I am coming in at the tail end of your plan without knowing its course.  And with race and taper and such.  So when is your race coming up?  

Carol nice training, glad you are healthy and the run is going solid.  Let us know how those 800 repeats are going this week....

Kate, you are doing a good job of keeping your weekly miles strong relative to your long run.  So is your long run this week 7 or 8 miles?  (4,4,4,8)?

 Mike, good choice foam roler, lay off the intensity for a couple weeks and see how it feels. 

Lots of good training going on, if I didn't comment on it, I am not worried about what you are doing 8).  If you had a question and I missed it, ask again, I sometimes don't catch everything.  

Jay, nice ride, and glad your foot is feeling better!  Score one for you and the collective wisdom of this group .

Kate, nice ride, and glad the weather cooperated!  Thanks for the reminder on the foam roller.  Hubby tweaked a muscle in his back, so I introduced him to it last night.  He was saying "how, will I know if I'm doing it right?"...then "ooowwwww!!!!" as he rolled a bit and hit that muscle.  I said "you're doing it right."

Mike, how nice that you get to enjoy the ocean views!  Headwind not so much.  The foam roller is your friend.

Ken, happy juggling this week!

Pam, sorry the 20 didn't go as you would have liked.  I know what you mean about once you get out of the mindset, it's hard to find it again.  You have me thinking about pegging some sort of event for the bike group.  Lots of road rally's w/ different distances around here, so thinking we pick one of those to target.  Great to hear that the 10K church challenge was such a success!

Fred, I hope you logged all that shoveling!  Sounds like something that would make one very sore.  And wow, 21K on treadmill!  Great job....mentally and physically.

Steve, thanks for reminding me re: the 800's (sort of ).  Had a bad run this morning...BG tanked and legs not recovered enough from Saturday's LR.  Hopefully recovered enough tomorrow for the 800's.  They seem to carry over to faster turnover the next run or two, so looking forward to that since today was a slog fest.

Trying to regroup from my rash of battery killing.  My garmin 305 is not holding a charge well (low battery alert at 2.5ish hours).  So Garmin is sending me a replacement for $85 (refurb w/ new battery), and looks like the ipod shuffle is more than adequate for my needs and nice and small for  $49, part of which will be covered by an Amazon gift card I got for Xmas, win!

Happy training to all! 

How is everyone doing on the Crunch Challenge?  If you hit every day, you have done at least 600 crunches so far this year!  They are getting easier, but still hard to make myself do them after a long run or other taxing workout.  Hopefully be ready for the bump up to 45/day starting Feb. 1st. 

Add your name and stats below and let us know how you are doing:

Carol - 20/20

Ken, solid.  You should be good going into your next build here.

Carol no speedwork for 2 days after a 20 miler, 2 recovery days, max of a tempo run on 2nd day. Your run training is looking awsome.  Really solid mid week runs in addition to your long runs.  You should be able to hold your pace throughout your marathon.  Really it is just some regular speed work that is holding you back from a real breakthrough in your marathon pace and such.  You completely have the base miles down, stamina, etc.  Just gota get out of that comfort zone a bit, use your Heart rate monitor and try to nail a LT HR for your 800s, then see what pace that is. 

Thanks for the reality check before the last marathong.  I am changing my time goal for the next marathon to 3:30 again.  I am less concerned about time for this one.  More concerned with my Ironman training which will start the end on the month.  

Here's my plan.

Yeah, my Patriots were rightly pounded to bits by a better Raven's team. C'est la vie

Big snowstorm hitting here overnight so my run tomorrow AM maybe behind a snow blower . actually depending on timing, I swap my Tu/W workouts and do the bike tomorrow and run on Wednesday, nature allowing. Worst case, I head to the gym and run on the treadmill Wed AM.

Swim today was focused on technique & drills, and.....flipturns!!!  Yes, I'm joining the cult it seems. . After 2 years of not doing them, I think its time I learn. Certainly no advantage in an open water swim, but if 99% of my time in in a pool, it just makes thing easier, and faster.

Hammy was a bit sore today, and I did a bit of foam roller-ing. Will also dial back on run intensity, and see how it does.

Great run!  Carol, I seem to have the same problems even when I get in shape (which is not where I am now).  In the last 3-4 miles of an OLY or around mile 15 of a long run, I still have plenty of cardio but seemingly no strength.  Steve, any thoughts?  (feel free to speculate!)  Nutrition?  Need different type of training?  Just getting old?  Based on my description, a trainer friend suggested doing some weights this winter, so I've been doing some.  Guess I'll know in a few months if that was a good idea or not!

Looks like lots of good training going on.  I had a good week - did something every day for the first time in quite awhile.  Swim is coming back.  Run is still a disaster, but that is par for the course with me :-)  Daughter is home for another 3 days, so trying to make the most of that!  It's been great having her home for a month (for us, anyway!).

Fred, I'm planning on doing the 1h swim.  It's been a good motivator for me in the pool this month.  Given that I'll only have two weeks of training behind me, I should create a low bar for future months!  But still will be a good barometer of swim fitness and a good workout to boot.

Stu

This is a complex problem and situational.  Carol is peaking, carrying a lot of fatigue forward from a big build for her marathon.  This results in feeling fine at the beginning, but then not having any umphta after a couple of miles.  If you experience this in a race when you are properly trained, then you need to do more weights or for runners that means more hills and more 400/800 repeats.  You need to train both fast twitch and slow twitch muscles to hold your speed for a marathon, HIM or IM.  Later in the race your body will draw on whatever is left to help agument fatiguing muscles. 

I warn people to not work intensity until they have those slow twitch muscles in place.  But in Carol's case, she is fine there, but needs to work those fast twitch muscles so she doesn't have a big drop in her pace in the last 6-8 miles of her marathon.  The more gradual your build the thicker your base to work on.  If you are just doing a fast build and hoping for the best, you won't have those reserves to draw on come race day.  Again in Carol's case she has good reserves, but needs to tap into those fast twitch muscles, with some Z4-Z5 work in order to drag her overal pace up at a lower HR and then maintain it throughout the race.  This is where the training gets hard and one has to balance rest with intensity or you get injury.  You can't go flat out always or your training is not efficient.  You have long training sessions that tax your slow twitch muscles a lot, recovery, then fast twithc muscle workout 3-4 days later, with 2 days to recover before your next long workout.  Strength training can help, but if you are running 50 miles a week, you might not have enough muscle left to work that is not already fatigued.  I guess core muscles can always be worked 8).  Crunch away.

Did that answer things?  Hill work = active weight lifting.  Speed work = active weight lifting. Offseason is a good time to work on some weights, peak training season not so much. 

Stu... tell me about your nutrition, because that can also tap you out if you are not taking in enough calories for 90 to 120 minutes into your workout/race. 

Also, remember that 3 hours is the longest premarathon or pre IM training run you should be doing.  The recovery time and risk of injury both go up at that point.  Carol is pushing past that... not by much but hitting the warning track for sure.  She should not do a 21 or 22 mile run as she is already past the 3 hour limit to get in 20 miles.  Often in IM training the long run is not more than 2:30 because you are also getting in a 6 hour bikeride typicaly the day before. 

Info in pink is edited.  Carol, do we move to 60 per day in Feb or 45?  Gosh, I hope it's the 45.  I've been hitting 60 many days in the past but I'd still drop back to the bare minimun on other days.

Steve, I love your explanation above about how to build for a marathon.  It points out how WRONG I've done it this time.  If I ever do another marathon (which I would like for all of you to shoot me if I sign up for another one.), I would like for you to design my plan.  Last year, I did a balanced plan with hills, speedwork, and distance for my marathons (Trust me tho, I still found other mistakes to make.)  I've been sloppy this time.  {hang head in shame.}  For the others, please listen to Steve because he is so right.

Stu, I have noticed a huge difference in my energy and form since doing so other strength training.  I've been concentrating on my core and I'm seeing a huge difference.  I'm not nearly as fatiqued and I find my abs engaged now instead of flapping or collapsing or whatever they used to do.

dang, triple post

dp

Hi Steve,

thanks for the constructive feedback. My A race is a HIM end of June. As I am a BOP biker,  I decided for 2013 to  reduce the run hours and increase the bike vs my Q4 2012 regimen which was run focused (5 run per week and um, virtually no bike), even though I did not log much on BT. Back then I would have one long run of 11 miles twice a month.

HM time is usually in the 1:40 range, so my saturday run in 1:55 felt comfortable on this  soft/flat surface. Did not record HR (I have developed a rash from my timex strap), but felt like z1 all the way. Bike is so hard for me at the moment, that going back to the familiar territory that run is was a welcomed break.

But yes, ramping up bike volume and increasing long runs sounds a bit mutually exclusive, and high risks/ low benefits.  Will provide my annual plan when I get access to my other computer, any feedback welcome. Thanks for caring and sharing your experience Steve! I have limited time for training and on BT, and I try to make the best out of this time, so no sugarcoating necessary.

Carol, I remained much more conservative on the crunches front  to balance the 21k But looking fwd to the 45 (and like Pam holding on to the hope I misread the original target of 60 daily crunches for Feb)

Fred - 16/20 crunch challenge.

Enjoy your week everyone!

Fred.

I am a little behind these posting, been slammed with work. Today was a nice 15 hour work day!

Carol - 20 miles ..wow very impressive

Mike - no offense but i liked watching the Patriots loose! Just because they had their share

Stu,Fred - 1 hour swim, Maybe it is me but I just can't stay focused swimming. I just find it boring but try to tell myself that means more focus if I can get through the workouts.

Steve - Thanks for the write ups as usual. All good information 

I picked up a foam roller myself this weekend. Hamstrings have been tight so I thought it would help. My calfs have been doing good with using the ball to roll around and adding some light stretching.

On Saturday I hit the motocross track. So I wore my garmin to see what my heart rate does. In a 20 minute practice ride I averaged 170 and hit 183 max. I knew it got up there but not like that!

I was going to do my long bike ride on Sunday but was so sore and my wife put me to work so I missed it. That really bugs me - I cant let that happen again! This week is technically a rest week but I do not feel like I earned it after missing that ride. 

Today it's supposed to be mid 30's all day so I hopped on the trainer this morning and got my 16 miles in.  

Carol, 21/21.  fun, fun.  Getting tougher. 

So here's what my plan looks like in terms of volume, phases and breakdown of planned hours per sport. As I said, intention was to put emphasis on the bike which is my weakness.  Based on your comment Steve, and looking back at my plan, I realize there is not much point in trying to increase my long runs during PREP and looks like I will not be able to do it at this level (21k+) anyway in the future with my current breakdown of hours. Not enough hours in a week do it all I guess . Thoughts?

Pam, you are right.  It does jump to 60 crunches in Feb, then 90 in March.  I refuse to think beyond that!

Steve, as always, appreciate your input.  I definitely won't be going more than 20.  Have one more 20 miler planned a week from Saturday.  800's on tap for later today.  HM on Saturday is reportedly hilly, so maybe "enjoy" a little of that outdoor strength training you're talking about.  I'm on a team with a friend I met here on BT, her hubby and several of her friends.  And kinda cool...it's the oldest HM in this area....this will be the 25th year. 

Ken, you have a big year ahead with another mary + IM.  Sonds like you know how to train smart, so I'm really looking forward to hearing about your training and results.

Samantha, you out there?  How is your training going?

Mike, sorry about the hammy.  Glad you are listening though.  Have you tried PT or a sports chiro?

Stu, nice consistent week!  That 1 hour swim sounds like something I'd like to do, but will have to come later since I have not even sniffed the chlorine lately.  Hope you will share how the strength training serves you on the muscular endurance later in the run.

Fred, how about if you lend me some of that speed?  1:40 HM....very nice!

Brian, wow, your HR did get up there considering the bikes have motors and all.  Sounds like an adrenaline rush!

Great job on the crunch challenge!  Just summarizing everyone's results:

Pam: 21/21

Ken: 21/21

Carol: 21/21

Fred: 16/20

Anthony: 13/20