BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN! Rss Feed  
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2014-07-01 8:35 AM
in reply to: ok2try

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Kennebunkport, Qatar
Subject: RE: Race Report
Congratulations everyone on your races, sorry about your spill James, but thanks for the heads up, I've always assumed the RD would take into consideration those types of obstacles, but I won't from now on!

Thanks for all the advice on transitions, something I have not spent much time on myself, training for that is! I will definitely have to try the rubberband trick, my size 13's really get in the way when they hit the ground . I have a tendency to get cramps and last year on my HIM getting off the bike was a little sketchy in my shoes while cramping up, it would have been much safer with out the shoes on. I also use shoes with the ratchet and one velcro strap and don't really have an issue getting in and out of them easily with one hand.

Went for my first ocean swim of the season last night, only did a little over a 1000 yards as the conditions were kind of rough and I haven't done much swimming since getting home. before my swim I was watching the news as they were reporting a great white sighting a little south of me in MA and then after we found a Lion's mane jellyfish on the shore, could be an interesting year up here for our ocean swims

Thanks for the advice and laughs this morning Steve, I can picture your dismount perfectly! Reminds me of one of my first experiences with clips, did a pretty long ride with no problems clipping and unclipping several times until I got home and apparently kind of forgot that I needed to unclip....fell right into the bushes in my drive way, my best Arte Johnson impersonation

Have a great day everyone!


2014-07-02 7:26 AM
in reply to: Mountaindan

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Master
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Sendai, Japan
Subject: RE: Race Report

Thanks for all those transition tips.  It is an area that I need to improve on.  I do pretty well in T2 most of the time, but am always slow coming out of T1.   I did have one pretty slow T2 a couple years back.  After racking my bike and getting my shoes on, I grabbed my run cap (some sunscreen inside).  When I got close to the T2 exit point I flipped my hat onto my head.   It was at that point that I discovered that my bike helmet was still on.  I think it cost me a good 1.5 minutes to get back to my bike and drop off the helmet.   Needless to say, I have not made that mistake again.

My two cents on shoes:   Last year I changed over from a carbon soled Specialized bike shoe to a pair of carbon soled Pearl Izumi's.  I was skeptical about not wearing socks, but am now completely used to it.   I find them more comfortable than my old bike shoes.   I have not tried attaching them to the pedals, but it is on my list of things I would like to do.   I keep putting it off because I always associate doing a flying mount with attaching the shoes to the pedals.   I can see that it might help cut some time even without the flying mount.

2014-07-02 8:28 AM
in reply to: ok2try

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Wooster, Ohio
Subject: RE: Race Report: Broome County Parks Triathlon
Congrats on your Race Deb. Sounds like ;you are really doing a great job with your training. Keep it up!
2014-07-02 8:57 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Using Threshold Swim Pace to Plan Workouts and Set Race Pace
Scott, thanks for the info on the CSS/STP. Great post!

Using this test my STP came out just over 2 min per 100 yrds. This is consistent with my time at the triathlon (8:30 for 1/4 mile). I can hold this pace for 400 to 500 yards, but I've never tried a straight 1000 yrds. Time to do some "Extensive Endurance Training"!

I have an OWS clinic this evening at one of the local lakes (Lake Meridian). One of the local tri-clubs/tri-teams is offering 9 weeks straight of coached Wednesday night OWS clinics. I'm not sure about the quality of their coaching, but if anything seems fishy I'll run it past my swim instructor and you guys on this forum. This seems like a good way to get more comfortable in OWS environment.

Scott I.

"Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming..." (Dora from Finding Nemo)
2014-07-02 6:47 PM
in reply to: k9car363

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Spencer, New York
Subject: RE: Transitions
Originally posted by k9car363

>

I agree with what Deb said on many of her transition points, however I take a bit different view on a couple.

I use road cycling shoes that have two Velcro closures and the ratchet at the top. 


I'm 100% with you on the 7 disciplines, Scott.
You are correct in that my transition perspective is for a sprint race. The longer distances would warrant more time for things that affect comfort and long-term efficiency.
When I first tried learning to ride with my feet on top of the shoes, I had the type with the ratchet strap. I found that when I put my foot on top, it pushed the strap down into the ratchet buckle making the maneuver very lengthy & awkward. I got new shoes with Velcro and it was not that hard.
If someone is getting their first pair of shoes with cleats, as dogpaddle might be, it makes sense to start with the Velcro ones.
In my "home" race I dropped a total of 1:30 off my T1+T2 times between 2012 and 2013 JUST by virtue of mastering what I call the shoe trick. In the National Senior Games in 2013 I was 2nd in my AG and 16 seconds ahead of the 3rd place finisher. Shoe trick did it.
Deb
2014-07-03 6:02 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Using Threshold Swim Pace to Plan Workouts and Set Race Pace

Originally posted by EchoLkScott Scott, thanks for the info on the CSS/STP. Great post! Using this test my STP came out just over 2 min per 100 yrds. This is consistent with my time at the triathlon (8:30 for 1/4 mile). I can hold this pace for 400 to 500 yards, but I've never tried a straight 1000 yrds. Time to do some "Extensive Endurance Training"!

It is amazing what happens when you understand what you are doing and why you are doing it.  Having a way to accurately predict race pace is just "icing on the cake."  Back in the day I enjoyed swimming success beyond my wildest dreams and I owed it all to my coach introducing me to STP and the various types of endurance training.  Well, that and having absolutely perfect stroke technique drilled into my head 8-hours a day.

Originally posted by EchoLkScott I have an OWS clinic this evening at one of the local lakes (Lake Meridian). One of the local tri-clubs/tri-teams is offering 9 weeks straight of coached Wednesday night OWS clinics. I'm not sure about the quality of their coaching, but if anything seems fishy I'll run it past my swim instructor and you guys on this forum. This seems like a good way to get more comfortable in OWS environment. Scott I. "Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming..." (Dora from Finding Nemo)

Spending additional time in an OWS environment will help more than anything.  As I have repeatedly said, the rules change in an OWS.  As to the coaching quality.  I would not expect a great deal, certainly not from a stroke technique standpoint.  In an open water environment, it is difficult at best to see what is happening underwater (you can't).  Accept the fact that your stroke is likely going to change a bit in open water.  The rougher the conditions, the more your technique is going to change.  Another thing to consider, in the open water, you are "out there" and the coach is on shore.  If the coach is in a boat or kayak out with you, he/she is having to deal with whatever water conditions you have to deal with all the while trying to observe and offer critique - not a recipe for really good feedback.  Just sayin' don't have unreal expectations about coaching input.

If you have the opportunity to use a wetsuit during the clinic that will be VERY beneficial.  After not being able to see, using a wetsuit is probably the hardest thing for newer swimmers to adjust to.  The wetsuit is a win/lose type of thing.  It is good because the buoyancy helps considerably, bad because the constriction of the wetsuit often creates problems.

I am sure they will talk about sighting.  I would make sure you master at least two techniques.  Crocodile eyes and head-up sighting immediately come to mind and are the ones that I use.  I say two because you need to be prepared for all types of conditions.  While you are in the water during the clinic, ask yourself what you would do in REALLY BAD conditions, indeed imagine you are in those terrible conditions.  The worst OWS conditions I ever swam in had 30+ MPH wind, 8-10 foot swell past the surf line and 8-12 foot surf on the shore which made a beach start a tremendous challenge.  That was a stand-alone OWS and I suspect a triathlon swim would be cancelled if conditions were that bad.  The point is, anticipate and train for the worst and hope for the best.  Then if you get a bad conditions day, you are prepared.

Above all, relax and enjoy swimming in open water conditions!



Edited by k9car363 2014-07-03 6:40 AM


2014-07-03 6:19 AM
in reply to: juneapple

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Subject: RE: Using Threshold Swim Pace to Plan Workouts and Set Race Pace

Originally posted by juneapple Scott - best swim training post I've ever read on BT. You should consider putting it out on the main boards. Thanks so much for taking the time to write it up! Stu

Thank you Stu.  Coming from you, that means a lot.

I took your advice and posted it on the main forum.  As I suspected, it got a couple hits a faded from view pretty quickly.  This is a generalization I admit, but increasingly it seems that people in the TT forum are interested in a) a REALLY quick fix, b) arguing some minor point, c) have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what they are talking about, or d) want to talk about "fluff."  That isn't to say there aren't some good people over there.  I just generally avoid TT.  Too many times I have been told I don't know what I am talking about by someone who swims a 2:45 hundred or a 15:00 five-hundred while at 55 I can still do a sub :55 hundred and a sub 5:00 five-hundred.  I think the people that are truly serious about improving are most likely in the mentor groups.

Just my humble opinion.

2014-07-03 6:49 AM
in reply to: Dogpaddle

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Subject: RE: Race Report

Originally posted by Dogpaddle

Yikes, I'm hooked and obsessed with getting better. That was soooo much fun yesterday

Uh-oh!  Sounds like the triathlon bug has well and truly bitten!

Happy Tri-ing!

2014-07-03 9:33 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: OWS training report...
I did the OWS training at Lake Meridian last night (first in a series of 8). It was a very different experience than my last OWS clinic. In that clinic, I was one of the more advanced students, but not last night. The first 5 people I met had just finished competing in the Coeur d'Alene Iron Man. On the whole this was a very experienced group, about 50 or 60 people total, and I was one of a handful of newbies.

They set up buoys to create a 300 yard course. Wet suits were mandatory. Conditions were a little rough (for one of our little lakes) with a 20mph wind and boat traffic. The chop didn't bother me to much, but it really messed up some of the other newbies.

As you suggested Scott, there was little in the way of stroke training. They focused on OWS techniques like swimming in a group, sighting, and drafting.

The focus last night for the larger group was drafting. They broke up into pairs (comparable speeds) and took turns drafting each other. I started out in this group, but after about 1000 yards I was getting pretty tired and had developed a cramp in my calf. I definitely need to improve my swim fitness!

The newby group was swimming back and forth parallel to the shore between the main course and the shore. They focused on swimming in a group, passing other swimmers in a group, and sighting. I joined this group after my calf cramp. The group swim practice was really helpful. The leader set us up in two lines, front and back, and had those in back swim through those in front. I have a bad tendency to drop out of my stroke and pop my head up when I make contact with someone. Her comment was "Keep swimming regardless of what body part touches you!".

I experienced my first kick in the face. Ironically, it wasn't during the group swim practice. I crossed paths at about a 90 deg angle with someone swimming out to the larger group from shore. It was a little startling - bloodied my lip a bit - but it didn't bother me too much.

As far as sighting, I'm getting much more comfortable with the "croc eyes" technique that Scott described a while ago. Because of the relatively rough conditions, it only worked about half the time last night. The other half of the time I saw nothing but waves. I just sighted more frequently and that seemed to work. I did try the "heads up" sighting a few times, but it really messes with my stroke.

In answer to your question Scott, I'm not sure what I'd do if I were swimming in 8 foot waves. Honestly, at this point in my triathlon journey, I'd just go home and live to swim another day. But if I had no choice, I suppose I'd try to time my sighting so that I was at the top of a swell. How did you do it?

After the next seven Wednesdays, I expect I'll be a lot more comfortable in the open water! I'm glad I signed up for this!

As an aside, the guy leading the training was one of my high school classmates. Small world!

Scott I.
"Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming..." (Dora)



2014-07-03 3:12 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Expert
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Missouri
Subject: RE: OWS training report...

Well I just did it - I registered for the short course at the New Town triathlon next weekend.  The butterflies are already starting.  I know once I start the race I'll do fine - I just need to keep myself calm until then.  Like I said before, the bike and run are no problem for me, it's just the swim.  I did manage to get in the lake for a while at the race I volunteered at last weekend.  The water felt really good, not cold at all so as long as the lake next weekend is similar, I think I'll do just fine.  I'm also going to volunteer at the kid's tri next weekend (kid's races are Saturday, adult races are Sunday) and hope to be able to get in the lake there for a short swim.  Don't know if they'll allow it, but I'm going to try.  I'll at least have a good idea of the water temp on Sunday. 

Anyone racing this weekend?  I thought about doing the Firecracker run in town tomorrow, but my calf/ankle are acting up again (might be from the run I did last night - should have stopped at 2 miles but it was just too nice out to stop), so I guess I'll be skipping it.  I have the day off work though so hope to get in a good bike ride! 

Hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable 4th!
Janet

2014-07-03 6:31 PM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Regular
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East Wenatchee, Washington
Subject: July 4th--Who is racing?
Come on gang....post 'em up! Who is racing this weekend.

I'm on the mend, but count on me Saturday to be working the remote control, channel jumping between the Tour de France and the World Cup. At least my fingers will get a workout!

Happy 4th everyone. Be safe out there.

Steve


2014-07-03 7:36 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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344
10010010025
Spencer, New York
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
Originally posted by lutzman

Come on gang....post 'em up! Who is racing this weekend.


Happy 4th everyone. Be safe out there.

Steve

Spending a week in Bend Oregon visiting daughter & family. Nothing planned, but as it happens there's a 5k tomorrow. Late night I went with my youngest daughter, who is 17, to a presentation by 4 local Bend runners who did well in the Western States 100--miler, including the 1st place woman and 4th place man, who happens to be my son-in-law. My teenager, who is not a runner, got totally inspired and wants to do the 5k! So that's what we're doing tomorrow.
It'll be interesting because the elevation is about 3500 ft and that does effect my HR.
Have a good weekend everyone, whether you're competing or just relaxing.
Deb
2014-07-03 7:51 PM
in reply to: lutzman


15

Subject: Swim Endurance
I will be competing in my first sprint tri Sept 21. I am a big time newbie to the sport and just now starting serious training. The bike and run, although I know I will not be breaking any speed records, do not worry me - that much. . However, the swim is an entirely different story. I am gassed after 25 meters. I am working hard on breathing and technique. I know everyone is different in levels of fitness, effort, etc. The swim leg is 500 yards. Any words of wisdom? Will I ever get there in a little over 11 weeks? I am currently swimming 3 days/ week. Should i swim 4 or more days a week? Any advice for this newbie is greatly appreciated.

Happy 4th to everyone!

Sandra
2014-07-03 8:43 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Kennebunkport, Qatar
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
No races for me, but hoping the weather will come together long enough for our tri club to get one of our mini's in tomorrow morning? They had to cancel tonight due to severe thunderstorm warnings and tornado warnings!

Had a good run tonight, short, but I felt horrible going out. Very muggy after the rain and after a long day at work I just wasn't feeling it, pressed on anyway and ended up feeling very good by the end, still slow, but at least I never quit, I had to remember my mantra when I was a little league baseball coach.

Winners never quit and quitters never win!

Have a great Independence Day everyone!!
2014-07-03 9:28 PM
in reply to: Mountaindan

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Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
I remain on the DL with a calf strain, despite multiple attempts to bribe my PT for an early release.

In between bouts of whining about no running, I've refocused on hitting the pool a bit more to work on my stroke. I also condensed all the stretching and strengthening movements that have been prescribed and put them into a one page workout that takes about 25 minutes to complete. The plan is to build up my torso flexibility, as well as lower back and hip strength over time. I'm hoping that improvements to my core alignment and posture and strengthening the various muscles will reduce my tendency towards leg injuries.

I expect to race again on August 3, for a sprint tri that will be held in Niantic, Ct. It will feature a saltwater swim. Unlike Cape Cod, we have had no big shark sitings in Long Island Sound this season, but its still early.

I'm planning a couple bike rides and a swim or two this weekend.

Happy 4th to everyone.

Dave

2014-07-03 9:31 PM
in reply to: 0

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Hingham, MA
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
Originally posted by lutzman

Come on gang....post 'em up! Who is racing this weekend.

I'm on the mend, but count on me Saturday to be working the remote control, channel jumping between the Tour de France and the World Cup. At least my fingers will get a workout!

Happy 4th everyone. Be safe out there.

Steve


I am going to be doing a 4.35 mile race in my town's 4th of July race followed by a pancake breakfast put on by the Lions Club on the common. I always liked the pancakes until a friend told me he saw some old guy mixing the pancake batter in a garbage can. Oh well!.

Don't ask me how they came up with 4.35. It just has always gone from the middle school with the firing of muskets and gone down Main Street to the center of town and finish under a big american flag. Hopefully there won't be any speed bumps. About 2000 runners,. always a great way to start 4th.

Open water swim on Sunday hopefully the seas will calm down, we have a hurricane coming up the coast. Water Temps actually have gone into the 60s F.

I will be joining Steve watching the Tour de France Saturday. I love watching it every year, its like I get possessed by the TV. Maybe some year I will make it over there to be part of the crazy crowds.

Have great 4th everyone!!!





Edited by JREDFLY 2014-07-03 9:32 PM


2014-07-03 9:40 PM
in reply to: golfgirl88

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Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: Swim Endurance
Originally posted by golfgirl88

However, the swim is an entirely different story. I am gassed after 25 meters. I am working hard on breathing and technique. I know everyone is different in levels of fitness, effort, etc. The swim leg is 500 yards. Any words of wisdom? Will I ever get there in a little over 11 weeks? I am currently swimming 3 days/ week. Should i swim 4 or more days a week? Any advice for this newbie is greatly appreciated.

Happy 4th to everyone!

Sandra


Sandra,

As a fellow newbie, I was in your position in late January for a sprint event this spring that included an 800yd swim. I practiced 3 x's per week to build up endurance. More importantly, I took the advice of the very knowledgable folks in this group and I focused on stroke technique. My swim wasn't very fast or very straight , but it was fine for a first attempt. I'm sure you will do the same if you're swimming regularly.

Good luck,
Dave
2014-07-03 9:51 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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238
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Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
Originally posted by JREDFLY

[I am going to be doing a 4.35 mile race in my town's 4th of July race followed by a pancake breakfast put on by the Lions Club on the common. I always liked the pancakes until a friend told me he saw some old guy mixing the pancake batter in a garbage can. Oh well!.



Reminds me of the scene in the movie "Uncle Buck" where John Candy is smoking a cigar while stirring a huge bowl of pancake batter. Then he makes one giant pancake and flips it with a snow shovel!
2014-07-04 8:41 AM
in reply to: lutzman

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Royal(PITA)
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West Chester, Ohio
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?

Originally posted by lutzman Come on gang....post 'em up! Who is racing this weekend. I'm on the mend, but count on me Saturday to be working the remote control, channel jumping between the Tour de France and the World Cup. At least my fingers will get a workout! Happy 4th everyone. Be safe out there. Steve

No races for me for a while.  Still debating about a fall sprint or Olympic.....I also have the November HM.  

I wish the local race company in Richmond were a better organization to deal with, then I would have more options for races.  But--I really don't like the RD or the way she runs things so I let my race fees go to other race companies that are more organized.

2014-07-04 9:39 AM
in reply to: 0

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Hingham, MA
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
I finish in 40:42 at a 9:22 Pace on what turned out to be 4.2 mile course, running negative splits by a minute at each mile all the way in.

I am very happy with this because my 5 mile practice runs this week were very weak

People lined up very early and I found myself starting way back in the last row and told myself not to waste energy dodging around people and just took it easy till it opened up.

Because it was chipped timed I think if I ever get stuck in the back like that again I will just let the last group go for a little bit and then start so they are not slowing me down so much at the beginning.

The thing that was really cool about starting so far back is no one passed me the entire race. Nice feeling being the hunter instead of the hunted.

I think now I will start using the Run Less Run Faster book Steve recommended to try and get my times down to under the 8:00 minute/mile for a 5k that just eluded me last year.

As I always say "not too bad for a little fat old Irish guy".

Happy 4th everyone!!!

James



Edited by JREDFLY 2014-07-04 12:59 PM
2014-07-04 9:55 AM
in reply to: DJP_19

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New user
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10010010010025
Hingham, MA
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
Originally posted by DJP_19

Originally posted by JREDFLY

[I am going to be doing a 4.35 mile race in my town's 4th of July race followed by a pancake breakfast put on by the Lions Club on the common. I always liked the pancakes until a friend told me he saw some old guy mixing the pancake batter in a garbage can. Oh well!.



Reminds me of the scene in the movie "Uncle Buck" where John Candy is smoking a cigar while stirring a huge bowl of pancake batter. Then he makes one giant pancake and flips it with a snow shovel!


Too funny! I love that movie, it never gets old. Too bad we lost John Candy, I heard he was a real family guy, who would always take his family on all his film shoots.


2014-07-04 10:26 AM
in reply to: DJP_19


15

Subject: RE: Swim Endurance
Thanks for the words of encouragement Dave. I definitely love the support and knowledge of this group. Just need to be patient.....which is hard for me to do at times! I will definitely keep plugging away!

Sandra
2014-07-04 11:29 AM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Master
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Maryland
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
Originally posted by JREDFLY

Originally posted by lutzman

Come on gang....post 'em up! Who is racing this weekend.

I'm on the mend, but count on me Saturday to be working the remote control, channel jumping between the Tour de France and the World Cup. At least my fingers will get a workout!

Happy 4th everyone. Be safe out there.

Steve


I am going to be doing a 4.35 mile race in my town's 4th of July race followed by a pancake breakfast put on by the Lions Club on the common. I always liked the pancakes until a friend told me he saw some old guy mixing the pancake batter in a garbage can. Oh well!.

Don't ask me how they came up with 4.35. It just has always gone from the middle school with the firing of muskets and gone down Main Street to the center of town and finish under a big american flag. Hopefully there won't be any speed bumps. About 2000 runners,. always a great way to start 4th.

Open water swim on Sunday hopefully the seas will calm down, we have a hurricane coming up the coast. Water Temps actually have gone into the 60s F.

I will be joining Steve watching the Tour de France Saturday. I love watching it every year, its like I get possessed by the TV. Maybe some year I will make it over there to be part of the crazy crowds.

Have great 4th everyone!!!

I like that distance of 4.35 miles, something different. My weekend consist of fitness, family, and fireworks : )
Happy 4th everyone!




2014-07-04 11:39 AM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
No racing for me this weekend. I have a nasty cold, so I'm not even certain I'll be training.

I'm thinking of doing a OWS race next Friday. It's run by the same group doing my Wednesday night OWS training. The shortest distance is 1/2 mile. A bit more than I'm used to, but I feel I can do it OK.

Scott I.
2014-07-04 6:52 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Kennebunkport, Qatar
Subject: RE: July 4th--Who is racing?
Great race James! I would say that is a good pace for anyone.

I need to get that book also, I feel like I have really slowed down as I have increased my mileage, time to concentrate on my cadence which will hopefully increase my pace.

Good luck on the swim tomorrow, looks like i wont be getting an OWS tomorrow, raining hard now and supposed to get worse through the night, hopefully Sunday will clear out enough to get in the ocean?



No fireworks in Maine tonight, thanks Andrew!
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