Swimming (kicking) question (Page 2)

I can see your points.  I guess if you're kicking backwards in the pool you have bigger problems to worry about.   So I take what I said back.  If you as an individual are actually moving backwards or not moving at all...put the fins on and get the feel that way.   If that dosn't work it's time to take up counter cross stitch or knitting.  Swimming and sports is not you're thing! 

Edited by gadzinm 2009-08-13 6:09 PM

I did notice these 2 things regarding kicking for OWS:

- I took a lesson with an open-water swim champion. She did not kick at all for propulsion, and recommended that I skip kick drills in favor of the upper body stroke perfection.

- TJFry's videos where he's cruising at 1:10/100m (post it again!) uses a 2-beat kick that probably doesn't provide much propulsion, and is more for balance.

- Competitive swimmers kick a LOT compared to us trifolks. They also tend to swim a lot faster than us, in both pool and open water. Of importance though, a lot of the swim racing events are under 1500meters, where max power becomes more important.

Hey...thanks everyone for the awesome feedback!  This kicking thing has been somewhat frustrating for me, to say the least.  And to think, I used to be on my HS swim team back in the day!  Granted, I wasn't very fast back then either, so I'm sure I carried over most of my bad habits.  I'm going to seriously look into the fins...seems like that will be the ticket for me in getting a "feel" for what a real kick should be doing for me.   I think for now, my main goal should be in working on making my kick more efficient...so that it helps, rather than hampers me.  I'm not too concerned at this point, about gaining speed...I'd rather have the advantage of "balance".  I still think 2-beat is the way for me to go...a constant flutter kick is just way too tiring and saps too much of my energy on longer distances.  

Thanks again...and keep the comments coming! 

Linda

Alright I gave in this morning and attempted the two beat kick in tjfry's video.  It will take a lot of practice for it to become a natural motion for me but it really did seem to help a lot.  Rotation in the water felt better and stronger.  I'm not sure I've got the timing down 100% but I'll keep working at it.  One of the biggest issues I found was that my heels would come a bit out of the water from time to time because of the wetsuit buoyancy - probably means I'm doing it wrong...

Took me about 3 times at the pool to get it. I feel my heels break the surface of the water all the time, I don't wear a wetsuit.  I don't think you are doing it wrong.  I will say that this kick helped me a great deal with longer swims. I was a sprinter in college, and actually was a flyer, so freestyle was my secondary stroke.  When I took up tris I just flutter kicked like I used to. My rythm and balance is better with the 2 beat. 

To the OP, not to sound like a broken record, definately study TJ's video. That is where I first saw it and learned it from.  There are a ton of really fast swimmers on here, everyone has some really great info.  For me, the way TJ words his posts, I can decipher and "see" it right away. I am a pretty fast swimmer, I however, can not tell you how to swim fast on paper.  Good luck whichever way you go!! Hopefully soon you will be a fish.

It's pretty cold water in the ocean up here!  Sorry, I should have specified I wasn't in a pool. 


Edited by axteraa 2009-08-14 9:11 AM

If you get some pool time, try playing with the feedback that training flippers give you...

The free Finis dvd (check the website) that they handed out at an expo had some cool drills (using their product of course) I had never seen as a competitive swimmer.

One was swimming with the fins, but playing variations with your kick... so for example, if you suspect that you are using your knees too much... kick with a lot of knee action, then slowly tighten the knees up until they are locked... then go back to what felt like your "sweet-spot".
You could do the same thing for cadence...

It works so long as you are trying to re-create your normal stroke it should work.

9 times out of 10, this will be the correct technique for you.




My vote is the cross-over kicks for distance swims over 200yds.

However, I also play with long distances.
I will almost sprint the first 100 to get ahead of the pack, then I settle on a tempo, then I spend some time thinking about breathing, kick, stroke technique...

It is about 25% race planning, 75% ADHD and long steady-states don't mix.