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2005-12-14 10:11 AM
in reply to: #305280

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Pro
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Subject: RE: School Uniforms

Amen brother.

pds0006 - 2005-12-14 10:21 AM

 It helps when the parents are teaching their kids values instead of expecting the school to do it for them (sorry, husband of a teacher rant there). 



2005-12-14 10:48 AM
in reply to: #304613

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
the problem with uniforms is that EVERYONE has to wear them. many of the posts here are for people that were/are happy to wear a uniform, and good for you! however all of your points revolve around the central concept that since EVERYONE wore a uniform, you felt comfortable.

now look at the healthy number of students that do NOT want to wear a uniform. whats the big deal? they want to express themselves through their attire, and thats no crime (well usually its not).

so what is the problem? the pro-uniforms get their feelings all bent out of shape because everyone won't play their game. the very concept of forcing everyone to be like you is socialist/nazi/otherwise-terrible. there are certainly merits to having a uniformed school, granted, but for those of you that claim to buy into what insignificant players such as the alledged "Jefferson" and "Madison" once wrote down, you should see that its fine to wear what YOU want to wear, but when everyone else won't hold your hand and wear the same thing then don't go off and try to rewrite the rule book.

in short i think that there should be a uniform. a single uniform that you have the CHOICE of wearing. any day that you don't have time to piece your outfit together (which is beyond me) or that you don't feel like competing with that other blond that sits next to you in French, wear the stinkin' uniform. but DONT go around forcing others to do the same.

one's need for simplicity/non-competition/frugality/whatever should not be a reason to force the same measures upon others.

i honestly think that every day more americans forget what the definition of freedom is. we seem so willing to trade it in for a monotonous boring overly structured world.

/rant
2005-12-14 2:26 PM
in reply to: #304613

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
I taught in a very low income public school for a few years. Uniforms were required. I did like it, because it allowed us to see quickly if someone was there who didn't belong (older boyfriends from the nearest high school often tried to sneak in). However, uniforms are not cheap compared to thrift shop and even walmart/kmart clothes. Many parents could only afford one uniform; there was no financial assistance available. They often washed them daily, but the wear was visible, and they were teased mercilessly. And some of them didn't wash daily, which was, well, gross.
2005-12-15 4:38 AM
in reply to: #304926

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
3558 - 2005-12-13 5:46 PM

Or an 18 year old high school student wearing a skirt short enough to cause a sexual harassment lawsuit. These kinds of things do happen. Eliminating the source will eliminate the problem. (not all of the problems, but some of them)

****Jen sorry for the partial hyjack (hyjack: I love Canada)****



Sorry to keep requoting this...but isn't this blaming the victim? I mean, a male (or female) should be in control of their self in all instances. Just because a person choses to wear a short skirt (reguardless of how inappropriate it is for the setting) doesn't mean that they are asking to be harassed, nor should it permit sexual advances. I mean, the same argument is used in rape cases all the time..."Look at the way she dresses, she was ASKING for it!" Elminiating the source would mean learning to treat all people with the respect and dignity they deserve, without reguard to gender, race, ethnicity and even dress.
2005-12-15 7:36 AM
in reply to: #305864

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms

. Just because a person choses to wear a short skirt (reguardless of how inappropriate it is for the setting) doesn't mean that they are asking to be harassed, nor should it permit sexual advances.

I never said that it does mean they are asking for it... but the bottom line remains that it DOES happen, and will continue to happen.  The uniform eliminates the skirt.  And as far as my use of the term "sexual harassment" that can go either way.  I'm sure you can find cases where a woman dressing innappropriately in the work place or the school causes someone else to be uncomfortable (and that's another topic that I don't even want to get into).

I mean, the same argument is used in rape cases all the time..."Look at the way she dresses, she was ASKING for it!" Elminiating the source would mean learning to treat all people with the respect and dignity they deserve, without reguard to gender, race, ethnicity and even dress.

But do you EVER see that happening (the last sentence that you wrote)?  Call me cynical, but it will never happen.  And please don't misconstrue my words to mean that rape is okay. That's obnoxious.

2005-12-15 7:57 AM
in reply to: #305893

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
3558 - 2005-12-15 8:36 AM

I mean, the same argument is used in rape cases all the time..."Look at the way she dresses, she was ASKING for it!" Elminiating the source would mean learning to treat all people with the respect and dignity they deserve, without reguard to gender, race, ethnicity and even dress.

But do you EVER see that happening (the last sentence that you wrote)? Call me cynical, but it will never happen. And please don't misconstrue my words to mean that rape is okay. That's obnoxious.

Actually, that does happen. There was a rape case several years ago where the victim's promiscuity was called into question because she was wearing underware from Victoria's Secret.

But regardless...the bottom line is that schools have uniforms because administrators want to minimize distractions in classrooms, so more time can be spent on teaching and learning. 



2005-12-15 8:22 AM
in reply to: #305902

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
i meant do we ever see this happening:  treat all people with the respect and dignity they deserve, without reguard to gender, race, ethnicity and even dress
2005-12-15 8:24 AM
in reply to: #304613

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
No, we don't see that.  But we never will.  It's a flawed system with flawed people.  But we do our best.
2005-12-15 8:29 AM
in reply to: #305916

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Giver
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Subject: RE: School Uniforms

Gotcha. Sometimes I read too fast.

But to your point, do you think dressing like Puritans will help us achieve that end? Dress is a fine-line kinda thing, IMO. For school kids, it's up to the parents to draw that line. School uniforms help, but school uniforms don't eist only to prevent girls from dressing like hoochies (I'm not saying short skirt = hoochie). Uniforms are meant to help ensure a harmonious class where teachers deal with distractions less and can focus more on teaching.

 

3558 - 2005-12-15 9:22 AM i meant do we ever see this happening: treat all people with the respect and dignity they deserve, without reguard to gender, race, ethnicity and even dress

2005-12-15 8:41 AM
in reply to: #305924

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms

I've never thought that the enforced dress codes truly helped without the focus on control that tends to come with it.  I knew kids that dressed like absolute slobs that were the most kind, caring and humanitarian (for their ages at least) people I had met.  I also knew some kids who dressed in an orderly, well put together manner that were pretty evil.  It wasn't the clothes either group wore that either shaped or defined them.

2005-12-15 2:44 PM
in reply to: #304660

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The real USC, in the ghetto of LA
Subject: RE: School Uniforms
Lara - 2005-12-13 1:01 PM

(hawiian print shirts do not go with camo pants)  


dang it, i have to go change now


2005-12-15 3:25 PM
in reply to: #304613

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Subject: RE: School Uniforms
Here goes . . .

I just graduated from a uniformless high school last spring. I am entirely against school uniforms for two reasons.

First of all, I think it is undeniable that inequality just a fact of life. No matter how we may try to deny it, we are not all equal, whether it be in intelligence, stength, family name, whatever. It is up to each one of us to do what we can to make up for the natural inequalities that we have been left with. For me at least, I dont want to depend on anyone to make up for whatever I am lacking in. It is up to me. If it matters so much to me to have expensive clothes that I feel inadequate if I dont, its up to me to get a job or mow more lawns or do more chores or whatever it takes to buy them. I dont want the governemnt to assume that I am not happy with what I have and make me wear a certain outfit.

Secondly, I think school uniforms are such an insignificant proposition that they are useless. Sure, Billy and Johhny may wear the same clothes because the school makes them, but that doesnt mean a thing when they walk up to the parking lot and Billy climbs into his new Land Rover and Johnny hops on the bus. Maybe if we all had to drive Prius' we would all be blissfully happy. Ha.

"I do not surrender my treasures, nor do I share them. The fortune
of my spirit is not to be blown into coins of brass and flung to
the winds as alms for the poor of the spirit. I guard my
treasures: my thought, my will, my freedom. And the greatest of
these is freedom." -Ayn Rand


Chris
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