Post your favorite swim workout (Page 2)

Yeah, did that for years as an AG swimmer. No stranger to it, just more of a reaction to the perspective of the audience. My favorite workout ever was the 85x100 for New Years 1985 (Sr. yr high school), but I picked a workout that was a bit more relevant to the audience here. :p

John

We do this every month or so on a Friday:

Warm-up:  200/200/200  swim/kick/swim

100 swim               50 kick
200 pull with paddles (p w/p)                 50 kick
400 p w/p                       50 kick
800 swim for time                    50 kick
1200 swim -- middle 400 p w/p                    50 kick
800 swim for time                  50 kick
400 p w/p             50 kick
200 p w/p                  50 kick
100 swim

No rest -- the 50 kick is your 'rest'

5,200 yds and we usually can do it in 75 - 80 mins. 

I don't understand this workout in the least.  It has 1000 yards of pace swimming, 1000 yards warm up and then 2000 of toy swimming.  25% of this long workout is actually of value.  The rest is total garbage yardage.

I think you'd get much more out of this workout (the basics of which are very solid) if you dropped all the aids and really focused on swimming.


Edited by kath9dav 2010-09-23 11:22 AM

are you saying you get nothing out of swimming with the toys?

I believe there is a time and place for toys.  These are my opinions only, kind of.  Here goes:

Fins - worthless, yet fun.  They don't simulate the actual kick, especially with a board.  Fins, regardless of type, reinforce a slower kick cadence.  The one exception to my rule is a fin loaded set where you go 500+ yards/meters on a fast pace with fins only.  This will hurt.  Some drop dead swimmers I know, i.e. 50s and 100s only, use fins a lot, mostly to perfect SDKs. 

Pull buoy - a nice toy to simulate the flotation characteristics of a wet suit.  A very addicting little toy.  If you take it off and your legs immediately sink, you are doing more harm than good.

Paddles - horrible, shoulder damaging devices, yet fun.  Coupled with a pull buoy and you are barely swimming.  The most shoulder pain I ever had was when I used paddles.  I almost never use them now, swim 6X a week and have zero issues. 

I like toys like the next guy but it is not true swimming, at all.  I think they provide a false sense of security on swimming ability.  When you get in a non wet suit legal tri or pool tri (blech) what are you gonna do without the toys ?

Edited by kath9dav 2010-09-23 11:39 AM

I couldn't disagree more. I thought it was a pretty good set.
Fins - great for leg strength and ankle flexibility. Why are you worried about kick cadence? Kick is tied to stroke rate, it's not an independant function. That would be like focusing on arm speed for running

Buoy - great for a number of things. isolating your pull, tightening up your kick, certain drills, etc

Paddles - strength work for the upper body/shoulders. Also is great for finding flaws in your stroke as paddles exaggerate bad form. People who run into shoulder problems usually have flawed form that is causing the problem. Paddles don't hurt shoulders, bad form hurts shoulders.

While I would agree that you shouldn't overdoit with equipment, to say that training with it isn't "true swimming" seems a bit odd, to say the least.

Kick tied to stroke rate??? That is categorically and 100% incorrect.  Ever heard of a 2 beat, 4 beat, 6 beat  kick?  That is completely independent of stroke rate.  Stroke rate has absolutely nothing to do with kick.  I swim with guys who have 11 SPL and a 2 beat kick and 15 SPL and a 6 beat kick.

I don't know where you get your paddle info from.  I swim with a number of Top 10 national swimmers and they will tell you paddles destroy shoulders.  I wouldn't tell an Olympian  he has bad form.  Why risk it?  A paddle does not give you proper form, it gives you proper paddle form.

I see you are form The Woodlands, which has one of the best AG programs in the nation.  I swim at an equally elite program and I've never heard any pro calibre coach advocate 2K of paddle in a practice or say stroke rate is tied to kick rate. 

2 beat per what?  Is it 2 kicks per breath? 2 kicks per song you sing in your head? 2 kicks per length of the pool? Oh wait, I remember its 2 kicks PER STROKE.  6 kicks PER STROKE. To focus on a high cadence when you swim a 2 beat stroke is a strange approach to me. I think effective kick should be the focus, especially when discussing here on BT.

I'm happy that you swim with all that talent. Some people just don't do paddles. Most do. I've swim with and under and among a similar pedigree, and equipment was part of the regular regimine every time.



Edited by tjfry 2010-09-23 12:11 PM

The kicking is there mostly just to give me a break between sets yet still keep my heart rate up. The fins build leg strength. I'm not looking to simulate my actual kick - I actually kick very little during a race.



The bouy is simply there to keep my legs up while I concentrate on my pull form - it's just one less thing I have to think about.



Paddles + bad form = should pain / injury. I use the paddles to build strength - have for years, with no shoulder issues.



You call the toys "aids" I call them "tools". They, in no way, offer me a sense of security. I am very comfortable in the water - with or without a wetsuit.

BTW - the only race I have ever used a wetsuit on was Alcatraz / Sharkfest - and I wore it because the water was cold - not because it would improve my time. The way I see it, I am only racing myself - so, if the water is at a comfortable temperature, I opt to swim wetsuitless. If I can get my biking and running up to the same level as my swimming - then I'd be looking to podium in my AG - and may re-consider this position.

HAHA John I feel ya on the 85x100. Florida Training every year in college was 100x100s...The last one had to be a dead out sprint and had to come within 10 seconds of race time. Was kind of a boring set though, but the one you always dreaded the most!

Jason 

Ok, not really a workout, more a story, but here goes.

High school swim team. Christmas Eve morning practice. Coach says "As your present from me you get to pick the workout today! Each lane picks one set (8 lanes) and each set must be at least 500 yards." Well we picked things like "kick 500, 20x25 on 30 seconds, etc." really easy stuff. So coach goes. "Fine I get to pick the last set," and he wrote "2 laps" on the board. We finished our "workout" and he told us what 2 laps meant.

We had to swim the length of the pool plus diving well (about 40 yards with a bulkhead separating the two), get out, go out the door of the natatorium outside into the 6 inches of snow that had fallen the night before, run a lap around the school (about a 1/2 mile) soaking wet, no shoes, in our short little drag shorts, and then enter in the door and hop back in the pool. That was one lap.

My swim coach was an ex-Navy Seal. He defined HTFU. After that I don't care how cold it is outside or how cold the water is, there is nothing that compares to that workout.

I understand what you mean by kicks per stroke, apologies.  We have a different way of looking at it.  Kick rate, to me, is not tied to stroke rate as two people with the same stroke rate often have entirely different kick rates.  And, depending on my race, I will change my kick cadence.  I am the king of the 2 beat kick.  One of my training partners has a six beat kick and we are similar in practice speed, slightly different in race speed.

Actually, most highly competitive swimmers who train to win do not use paddles.  I see a higher use of paddles among newer swimmers and triathletes.  The way I look at it is that you mimic what the best do and the best do not have an over reliance on paddles, fins or buoys. 

My one exception is the swim snorkel which I find to be the most useful toy in improving head position.

I agree effective kick is very important.  I swim beside a newb tri program in the Summer.  None of them can kick worth a flip until they put on fins.  That tells me that fins really do nothing for the kick.  Zoomers might be an exception since they don't give you much propulsion. 

Our coach says it time and again - to be a good kicker you have to kick. 

That's pretty intense, wouldnt mind trying that with my swimmers now haha 

The amazing thing is, he always, throughout the winter, had the doors to outside open during our workouts with the cold air blowing in, and no ever ended up with pneumonia or other related ailments.

It's a tool, nothing more. Improper use will destroy shoulders. Proper use gives feedback on form flaws, and helps strengthen the muscles involved. Also, proper selection of paddle size according to ability/training will mitigate any possible damages.

There are paddles available that are barely larger than the hand/fingers, and don't give much more grab than a good catch would.

John

Agreed, the ones i use now are not a lot bigger than my hands ( i think the strokemakers that they recomend for highschool girls or one size up).

I think we will just have to agree to disagree on paddles.  I can swim lights out with them very comfortably.  They don't do a single thing for my race pace swimming or meet day performance but they are very fun and addicting. 

and for me they have done great things for race day swimming;-)

Back OT, Marco Polo.

do you listen to abba while playing?

Wait, how about Sharks and Minnows! I love that one!

David, what race are you doing this weekend?

Like you said in an earlier post. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I have swum under more than one Olympic coach in my 30 years in a pool, and paddles have always been a part the training program, including those who 'train to win'.

Strokemakers for President.

another good game.

Doing the deer creek half iron by HFP racing.
local race near my parents , was a good excuse tocome home, load up on food, sleep for a few days and visit a lot of old friends.

small race thats going to come down to probably 3 of us near the front and really more about a good time than anything else.