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2012-09-25 12:58 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle

scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 8:11 AM I think this topic merits its own thread. I have to discuss this on the radio later and I'm concerned, due to FCC regulations, it will be my last time on the air. Here's my main beef, beside the fact the replacement officials blew an obvious call. Two different officials made two different simultaneous rulings on the field. So how can replay either confirm or overturn a ruling on the field? NO DEFINITIVE RULING WAS MADE ON THE FIELD. And what do we call this travesty? "The Golden Sham"? "The Fail Mary"?

They did make a defining rule. Both official made opposing calls...which they they ruled on one. Then they went to replay and upheld the official ruling.

I'm not saying I agree... I'm just saying they made a call.



2012-09-25 1:04 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle

scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 11:10 AM  Referee Wayne Elliott determined that no indisputable visual evidence existed to overturn the call on the field, and as a result, the on-field ruling of touchdown stood. The NFL Officiating Department reviewed the video today and supports the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review. The result of the game is final."

 

IMO, that is a pretty damning indictment of the Referee, who had the ability to use replay-- the same replay ESPN has been playing nonstop-- to make the right call, regardless of the ruling made on the field. Their own final statement is WRONG-- if the ruling is reviewable under replay rules, the Referee did not need indisputable evidence to OVERTURN the call. He simply needed to make the correct call based on what he saw on the replay.

No, he needed indisputable evidence to overturn the call as with any instant replay.

Whether you think they made a official call or not, they did...if not they would still be standing there. They can't replay a play if no call was made. They can't blow the whistle if the ball is not dead. they blew the whistle, they made a call, they reviewed it, and they upheld it...again, I don't agree, but that is what happened.

2012-09-25 1:12 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
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Edited by scoobysdad 2012-09-25 1:13 PM
2012-09-25 2:12 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
JoshR - 2012-09-25 9:25 AM

mr2tony - 2012-09-25 10:15 AM Scoob if you want a Seahawks fan to chime in Mrs. Goggs is one -- and she felt that the call was total and complete BS. In fact my guess is that most Seahawks fans can admit that the Packers got a snow job on that call. The ones who don't feel that way are either complete homers or complete idiots.

I'll admit it. Most of the game was a joke though. The last 3 scoring drives all happened BECAUSE of the refs.

Even with all the bad calls, hands down the worst part of te night was Cheaty Petey skipping down the sideline with his hands in the air like they won the Super Bowl. I don't expect them to turn down the win but "win" (using the term loosely)with a little humility.

Edited by uclamatt2007 2012-09-25 2:14 PM
2012-09-25 2:16 PM
in reply to: #4427065

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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 2:12 PM

JoshR - 2012-09-25 9:25 AM

mr2tony - 2012-09-25 10:15 AM Scoob if you want a Seahawks fan to chime in Mrs. Goggs is one -- and she felt that the call was total and complete BS. In fact my guess is that most Seahawks fans can admit that the Packers got a snow job on that call. The ones who don't feel that way are either complete homers or complete idiots.

I'll admit it. Most of the game was a joke though. The last 3 scoring drives all happened BECAUSE of the refs.

Even with all the bad calls, hands down the worst part of te night was Cheaty Petey skipping down the sideline with his hands in the air like they won the Super Bowl. I don't expect them to turn down the win but win with a little humility.


The postgame interviews with Golden Tate and Russell Wilson also made me want to puke. Golden Tate flat out denied he did anything wrong and Russell Wilson acted like he shredded the Packer defense on the final drive that was assisted by three BS calls against the Packers defense that should have ended the game.

But you're right about Pete Carroll and his smirk of self-satisfaction. I just wanted to punch him in the face.

2012-09-25 2:20 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 12:16 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 2:12 PM
JoshR - 2012-09-25 9:25 AM

mr2tony - 2012-09-25 10:15 AM Scoob if you want a Seahawks fan to chime in Mrs. Goggs is one -- and she felt that the call was total and complete BS. In fact my guess is that most Seahawks fans can admit that the Packers got a snow job on that call. The ones who don't feel that way are either complete homers or complete idiots.

I'll admit it. Most of the game was a joke though. The last 3 scoring drives all happened BECAUSE of the refs.

Even with all the bad calls, hands down the worst part of te night was Cheaty Petey skipping down the sideline with his hands in the air like they won the Super Bowl. I don't expect them to turn down the win but win with a little humility.
The postgame interviews with Golden Tate and Russell Wilson also made me want to puke. Golden Tate flat out denied he did anything wrong and Russell Wilson acted like he shredded the Packer defense on the final drive that was assisted by three BS calls against the Packers defense that should have ended the game.But you're right about Pete Carroll and his smirk of self-satisfaction. I just wanted to punch him in the face.
I personally think the NFL should retroactively give both teams a loss. No one deserved to win that game.


2012-09-25 3:19 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 1:20 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 12:16 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 2:12 PM
JoshR - 2012-09-25 9:25 AM

mr2tony - 2012-09-25 10:15 AM Scoob if you want a Seahawks fan to chime in Mrs. Goggs is one -- and she felt that the call was total and complete BS. In fact my guess is that most Seahawks fans can admit that the Packers got a snow job on that call. The ones who don't feel that way are either complete homers or complete idiots.

I'll admit it. Most of the game was a joke though. The last 3 scoring drives all happened BECAUSE of the refs.

Even with all the bad calls, hands down the worst part of te night was Cheaty Petey skipping down the sideline with his hands in the air like they won the Super Bowl. I don't expect them to turn down the win but win with a little humility.
The postgame interviews with Golden Tate and Russell Wilson also made me want to puke. Golden Tate flat out denied he did anything wrong and Russell Wilson acted like he shredded the Packer defense on the final drive that was assisted by three BS calls against the Packers defense that should have ended the game.But you're right about Pete Carroll and his smirk of self-satisfaction. I just wanted to punch him in the face.
I personally think the NFL should retroactively give both teams a loss. No one deserved to win that game.

I think there should be some kind of bonus score for getting 8 sacks in a half. Like it's a 3 point play or something. 

2012-09-25 3:20 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 3:20 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 12:16 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 2:12 PM
JoshR - 2012-09-25 9:25 AM

mr2tony - 2012-09-25 10:15 AM Scoob if you want a Seahawks fan to chime in Mrs. Goggs is one -- and she felt that the call was total and complete BS. In fact my guess is that most Seahawks fans can admit that the Packers got a snow job on that call. The ones who don't feel that way are either complete homers or complete idiots.

I'll admit it. Most of the game was a joke though. The last 3 scoring drives all happened BECAUSE of the refs.

Even with all the bad calls, hands down the worst part of te night was Cheaty Petey skipping down the sideline with his hands in the air like they won the Super Bowl. I don't expect them to turn down the win but win with a little humility.
The postgame interviews with Golden Tate and Russell Wilson also made me want to puke. Golden Tate flat out denied he did anything wrong and Russell Wilson acted like he shredded the Packer defense on the final drive that was assisted by three BS calls against the Packers defense that should have ended the game.But you're right about Pete Carroll and his smirk of self-satisfaction. I just wanted to punch him in the face.
I personally think the NFL should retroactively give both teams a loss. No one deserved to win that game.


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2012-09-25 3:33 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
Kido - 2012-09-25 1:50 PM

jford2309 - 2012-09-25 10:39 AM What else could the NFL do? Has the NFL ever overturned a call after a games is changing the outcome?

There is a rule that they CAN overturn the call and change the outcome.  There is that allowance.

But it WILL NOT HAPPEN.  And I can give you one good reason...

The NFL SAYS they have nothing to do with gambling and want to seperate themselves from it.  That's there excuse of why they won't put a team in here in Vegas.  But do you think the gambling industry doesn't have a ton of under the table influence with all the fantasy football, and a billion dollar gambling industry to consider?

Consider this.  The casinos and books pay out EVERYONE that picked Seatle to cover or win.  Millions of not billions payed out.  Then the commisioner overturns and everyone with winning GB tickets want to get paid?  You think that MGM, Ceasars Entertaining, Wynn resorts, Boyd Gaming, etc don't have a HUGE stake in this and would/could pressure the NFL - even under the table or phone call directly to Goodell's office?  You think that people that got paid for seatle would give back the money?  lol!



Very good point. If Vegas were to come out and say to NFL you guys are costing us millions, I feel a settlement would be in the works.

Another question: I don't know how NFL contracts are worded, but I wonder if the players can strike under an "unsafe working environment" clause? Just curious.
2012-09-25 3:39 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
Now you Packer fans know how the rest of us feel after seeing the home cooking at Lambeau all these years.

It they would have just knocked it down like they're supposed to, it would be a non-issue.
2012-09-25 3:54 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
There are now still shots from the replay that clearly show Tate's arm across Jenkins's chest, not touching the ball.

Looks like they really did get it wrong. Also the fact that changing the outcome would be a big dent in the gaming industry (something around $250 million), the outcome isn't going to change. Sad.


2012-09-25 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle

scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 12:12 PM nm

So are you claiming there was no call made, or is there official statement no call was made. So far I have not heard anyone claiming a call was not made. I'm seriously asking. I realize two officials made different calls, but an official call had to be made.

And ya... it is a complete mess. Total fail on many many points.... no OPI will not be called for a jump ball on a hail Mary... but that was a mugging and most certainly should have been called. It was interesting though that the play was obviously developing on that side of the field and no official was even close to being there or getting there.

 

The only thing I will say is that a game is never decided by one play. There is a whole game played before the last one. Obviously, some foul occurred and a ruling needed to be made on possession... The winner or looser would be determined by the ruling of the officials. It sucks when it comes to that, but it does happen replacements or not.

GB can talk about being robbed... but everyone knows.... defenders bat the ball. Possession does nothing for you on the last play... and with simultaneous possession rule defender automatically looses. Sam Shields should have batted the ball away. He was in perfect position, that was the correct play. By intercepting it, he cost GB the game.

Sorry, it we are going to Monday morning QB the end of the game, we have to do the whole thing.

2012-09-25 4:13 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle

With 8 seconds left in the game, both teams should have just taken a knee and ended the game!

 

 

(It's a joke, easy now!)

2012-09-25 4:29 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
jford2309 - 2012-09-25 3:13 PM

With 8 seconds left in the game, both teams should have just taken a knee and ended the game!

 

 

(It's a joke, easy now!)

If the Packers would have used the Victory Formation, they would have a win right now.

2012-09-25 4:38 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
Nathanm74 - 2012-09-25 3:39 PM

Now you Packer fans know how the rest of us feel after seeing the home cooking at Lambeau all these years.

It they would have just knocked it down like they're supposed to, it would be a non-issue.


Did you see this weekend's Detroit - Tennessee game? Batting it away isn't always a good idea, either.
2012-09-25 4:44 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle

scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 3:38 PM
Nathanm74 - 2012-09-25 3:39 PM Now you Packer fans know how the rest of us feel after seeing the home cooking at Lambeau all these years. It they would have just knocked it down like they're supposed to, it would be a non-issue.
Did you see this weekend's Detroit - Tennessee game? Batting it away isn't always a good idea, either.

It's always a game of odds, but the correct play is to bat it away, and Shields had good position to do that effectively.

It does not absolve the refs and their call... but it would have made a refs decision moot.



2012-09-25 4:51 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
powerman - 2012-09-25 3:56 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 12:12 PM nm

So are you claiming there was no call made, or is there official statement no call was made. So far I have not heard anyone claiming a call was not made. I'm seriously asking. I realize two officials made different calls, but an official call had to be made.

And ya... it is a complete mess. Total fail on many many points.... no OPI will not be called for a jump ball on a hail Mary... but that was a mugging and most certainly should have been called. It was interesting though that the play was obviously developing on that side of the field and no official was even close to being there or getting there.

 

The only thing I will say is that a game is never decided by one play. There is a whole game played before the last one. Obviously, some foul occurred and a ruling needed to be made on possession... The winner or looser would be determined by the ruling of the officials. It sucks when it comes to that, but it does happen replacements or not.

GB can talk about being robbed... but everyone knows.... defenders bat the ball. Possession does nothing for you on the last play... and with simultaneous possession rule defender automatically looses. Sam Shields should have batted the ball away. He was in perfect position, that was the correct play. By intercepting it, he cost GB the game.

Sorry, it we are going to Monday morning QB the end of the game, we have to do the whole thing.




My understanding is that the Referee never conferred with the officials on field-- who made contradictory calls upon seeing the play. One ruled interception and touchback and one ruled touchdown. No call was announced by the Referee on the field. Instead, he was immediately buzzed by the Replay Official that the play needed to be reviewed. So why must he see incontrovertible proof to overturn a call that was never made?

As for Sam Shields, he was the defender in perfect position to defend the play who was illegally pushed down by Golden Tate. This penalty should have been called, as the NFL acknowledges in its statement, and the game should have been over right there.

As far as a game taking place before the final call, I agree with you. The game should have never gotten so close. The Packers intercepted the ball when that drive began. Instead the officials made a horrific roughing call, as the commentators acknowledged, which gave the ball back to Seattle. Then the only reason Seattle was in position to throw into the end zone on the final play alone was because of an equally egregious pass interference call on Sam Shields to put the ball on the GB 24. If officials are going to "let the players play" and refrain from making a call that would determine the outcome of the game as they did by not calling Offensive Pass Interference on Golden Tate on the final play, why did they make a very questionable call on Shields to set them up for that play?

The fact is, Green Bay made the adjustments they needed to make to win that game. They had three scoring drives in the second half. Their defense allowed only seven valid points in the game. They had more total yards than Seattle, and held the ball longer. They were the better team on the field, they deserved to win the game and, if the proper calls are made on that field, they DID win that game.




Edited by scoobysdad 2012-09-25 4:51 PM
2012-09-25 4:52 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
You get what you pay for.   Just saying.    Yeah, like the League can't afford the best officials.        Cheap skate owners are the real problem.


Edited by MadMathemagician 2012-09-25 4:52 PM
2012-09-25 4:52 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
Stillmanji - 2012-09-25 1:53 PM

It's funny...this was my FB post with about 10 minutes left in the quarter.  That's right...I quit before "The Call" even happened!  If I only I knew what I was missing!!!

That's it...I have officially turned off the NFL until this officiating crap gets worked out. Giddell's got no pressure to change until he loses ratings...well, I'll do my part. Unwatchable the way the games are being called right now. 
I might still tune in for 9er games - I can't promise I can handle cold-turkey, but enough is enough.  This sucks.



I actually think it will have the opposite affect. I will probably watch a little more just to see how much worse it gets. Kinda like those that watch hockey for the fights and NASCAR for the crashes.
2012-09-25 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 3:51 PM

My understanding is that the Referee never conferred with the officials on field-- who made contradictory calls upon seeing the play. One ruled interception and touchback and one ruled touchdown. No call was announced by the Referee on the field. Instead, he was immediately buzzed by the Replay Official that the play needed to be reviewed. So why must he see incontrovertible proof to overturn a call that was never made? As for Sam Shields, he was the defender in perfect position to defend the play who was illegally pushed down by Golden Tate. This penalty should have been called, as the NFL acknowledges in its statement, and the game should have been over right there. As far as a game taking place before the final call, I agree with you. The game should have never gotten so close. The Packers intercepted the ball when that drive began. Instead the officials made a horrific roughing call, as the commentators acknowledged, which gave the ball back to Seattle. Then the only reason Seattle was in position to throw into the end zone on the final play alone was because of an equally egregious pass interference call on Sam Shields to put the ball on the GB 24. If officials are going to "let the players play" and refrain from making a call that would determine the outcome of the game as they did by not calling Offensive Pass Interference on Golden Tate on the final play, why did they make a very questionable call on Shields to set them up for that play? The fact is, Green Bay made the adjustments they needed to make to win that game. They had three scoring drives in the second half. Their defense allowed only seven valid points in the game. They had more total yards than Seattle, and held the ball longer. They were the better team on the field, they deserved to win the game and, if the proper calls are made on that field, they DID win that game.

My bad... Sorry, Jennings should have batted the ball.

I see what you mean about the play call. I get that it was the flow of the game, and that they went to review... but yes... if two judges make different calls, the Ref still has to make an official call. I have not heard anyone else complain about that. They probably accept the flow of events... but ya, it does have to go by letter of the rule, because ultimately, the letter of the rule is what gave the end ruling.

Most just accept that you do indeed need irrefutable proof to over turn a call. The official position is that it was officially ruled a touchdown.... which was reviewable. Interception is game over. To overturn the TD, they needed "proof" and they stand by their men that that was a judgment call and they did not have proof to overturn.... again, I disagree, but that is their story and they are sticking to it.

Overall, some of the calls were judgment, but some horrible. Once you change history with what ifs... then anything is possible. It was indeed a horribly officiated game... but there is no telling if a call was changed if something else would have happened that would have resulted in some other event changing the outcome. You just can play what if and say GB won that game. All we can say is the refs made some horrible calls and ruled in favor of SSH at the end of the game for a win.



Edited by powerman 2012-09-25 5:16 PM
2012-09-25 6:47 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
JoshR - 2012-09-25 1:19 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 1:20 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-09-25 12:16 PM
uclamatt2007 - 2012-09-25 2:12 PM
JoshR - 2012-09-25 9:25 AM

mr2tony - 2012-09-25 10:15 AM Scoob if you want a Seahawks fan to chime in Mrs. Goggs is one -- and she felt that the call was total and complete BS. In fact my guess is that most Seahawks fans can admit that the Packers got a snow job on that call. The ones who don't feel that way are either complete homers or complete idiots.

I'll admit it. Most of the game was a joke though. The last 3 scoring drives all happened BECAUSE of the refs.

Even with all the bad calls, hands down the worst part of te night was Cheaty Petey skipping down the sideline with his hands in the air like they won the Super Bowl. I don't expect them to turn down the win but win with a little humility.
The postgame interviews with Golden Tate and Russell Wilson also made me want to puke. Golden Tate flat out denied he did anything wrong and Russell Wilson acted like he shredded the Packer defense on the final drive that was assisted by three BS calls against the Packers defense that should have ended the game.But you're right about Pete Carroll and his smirk of self-satisfaction. I just wanted to punch him in the face.
I personally think the NFL should retroactively give both teams a loss. No one deserved to win that game.

I think there should be some kind of bonus score for getting 8 sacks in a half. Like it's a 3 point play or something. 

I'm pretty sure that Tate earned you -3 points though for mugging Sam Shield and being awarded a 32 yard gift for doing so though.

I had to laugh when that was called but when your tight end got hog tied in the middle of the field on the final drive there was no flag. These officials just can't keep up with the speed of the game.



2012-09-25 7:07 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
What few people realize is that as a further cost-savings, the replay booth has now been outsourced to India.  So the referee on the field was confused when the booth signaled back that the final play was a wide ball.
2012-09-26 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
So how did your broadcast go SD?
2012-09-26 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle
powerman - 2012-09-26 1:11 PM

So how did your broadcast go SD?


Well, I don't expect any calls from the FCC... probably not from ESPN to offer me a job, either.

It's fun and I had my chance to vent. Thanks for asking. If you're bored, you can find it here:

http://www.whby.com/index.php/Audio_Vault/Podcasts/Philcast

2012-09-26 3:30 PM
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Subject: RE: The Debacle in Seattle

He he he... you said pus.Smile

Nice pod cast. I generally agree with you. And yes, I agree it was OPI. NFL network said in the last 5 years, 87 similar instances resulted in ZERO calls... but that does not mean it happened, or if any was as egregious as this example.

 I happen to agree that for a Hail Mary... that no call in general should be made. If you get technical... it would be called on EVERY play. So players should be allowed to compete for the ball, and if there are a couple players for each team going for the same thing... let them fight for it.

But that was a mugging. I mean if that's the case, we could set up Hail Mary plays that have coordinated blocking plays to clear players from the ball. Seriously, that is exactly what he did.

Not to mention there are also rules against clipping and blocks to the back... which is exactly what Tate did. That most certainly should have been called. Heck, here is an idea... call it eligibility... if you are blocking a player from a hail mary, you are an ineligible receiver.

There are definitely ways to preserve the hail mary and prevent this from happening. The game should have been over. It most certainly should have been reviewable, and instant replay should have nullified the "reception" by Tate.

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