2008 to 2012 what has changed? (Page 2)

X2!  This is where the change has been and it is not a good change....for anyone.  What is sad is that the leadership is there on both sides but party interests, and self interests prevent crossing the line for solutions let alone cooperation. 

You think so? If anything, I'd say it's the leadership on both sides that is driving us to the point we are at. 

I've built several businesses in several different regions/permitting regimes and I can say government can hurt business or it can get out of the way and allow businesses to thrive. 

Texas is an example of an area where businesses are free to thrive and the recession is almost non-existent in many parts of that state.  Meanwhile, the recession is battering California hard and they continue to hammer business for their "fair share".

If a business succeeds in California, the successful business leader definitely deserves more credit than in Texas.  But we all do better when more businesses are succeeding than struggling.

Response from a buddy:

"That's the power of the Eastwood Speech...It's the Joke that takes-on a life of its own!"

Good one Tuwood.

An interesting perspective in relation to the "you didn't build that" debate.

A LONG List of President Obama's Accomplishments - With Citations http://p.ost.im/p/dNWmQj 

you may not like what he's done, but most of the stuff I just read above was junk.  i.e. either completely incorrect, very misleading, or an irrelevent talking point.  I don't have the time to go through them one-by-one.  Obama has done a lot of what he promised (37% completed, 82% completed or in-process by politifact), but certainly not everything. 

people choose their sides and believe what they want to believe. Add to that having huge expectations of a POTUS to be able to fix all of our problems and many are dissatisfied. 

I'd take the moderate Mitt from 12 years ago maybe, but the GOP today is way too Draconian.  Overall- I prefer the direction that Obama is taking us. 

ugh.  Example number 4,322 :  On Fox, Court Ruling Ensuring All Ohioans Have Equal Access To The Polls Described As Obama Attack On Military Voting.

Link no worky.

EDIT: OK well it works in IE, not on my FF. Sorry.

No verifying info. Just assume it is correct.

OK... so there is some time I'll never get back. That was probably the most nonsensical collection of points I have ever seen. Seriously Morey, you can't really be serious about holding that up as truth backed up with fact checks???

Just one example....He provided the troops with better body armor. http://bit.ly/hzSv2h

The article... news story held up as fact.... is about Obama asking for more money to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan early in his Presidency. There is one line that says a whole ton of money is going for body armor... not "Better" body armor... and all the it is a recommendation that was given to him by the DD. So he approves a budget given to him by the DD to continue wars he promised he would end, and somehow he alone gets credit for "Treating our armed forces better" as the title of that section claims.

90% of the LONG list of Obam'a accomplishments are nothing more than line items in bills... not that he wanted or fought or promised them, just signed them. And then the fact checking is done by journalists stating such things like "has improved foreign relations". I mean my goodness, I could go over to FOX news and pull a list of all his failures fact checked by them and it would have about the same amount of truthfulness you just posted.

Not that you are not entitled to your opinion that Obama has performed well, I just thought it was funny that you said every thing is misleading, or just plain wrong in this thread, and then use that link as proof.

Ah, the old... "your argument is invalid but I'm too busy to actually argue my points" tactic...  Gotcha.  I should just believe you because you said so...

You just posted a list of all the things he HAS done for which we're supposed to give him full credit.  Yet when he fails, it's not his fault? 

Also please explain how it's taking sides when I don't feel Romney will be much (if any) better? Just because I criticize Obama does not mean I endorse Romney.

Adding to the "are you better off than 4 years ago" question.

"Just since President Barack Obama was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2009, the debt has increased by $45,848 per household (to $136,360)—or about 50 percent per household."

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-debt-now-136260-household-50-under-obama

Apparently we are better off.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-05/americans-say-better-off-since-obama-even-as-slump-lasts.html

The market and the GDP both grew during the Great Depression (1929-1940).  Not sure many would say those were good times.

No doubt it's been a bull market since Obama took office.  However, he does not get full credit.  We can thank QE - Ben for artificially inflating the market.  And yes, Obama has not fired him so he gets some credit.  Which in my opinion, is another strike against Obama. 

The house of cards will fall. 

Those are different questions. "Americans feel better off" vs "America is worse off"

I think there is a huge difference. 4 years ago I was working through college making $9/hr at a crappy job and now I'm a salaried professional. I think our country is significantly worse off. Those two answers are 180 degrees apart.