Gnu's Group - CLOSED (Page 2)

You bet!

If you have room for 1 more I would love to join.

At 325 pounds I decided that enough is enough and decided to run a marathon. I started training in 2006 and I ended up completing a 5K, 10K, a marathon and a sprint distance triathlon in 2007. Then I stopped working out, got lazy and put all of the weight back on.

Now I have decided that I want to do a couple more sprint distance triathlons so I have slowly started training again. I have signed up for the Solana Beach Triathlon on July 27th, the Pacific Coast Triathlon on September 7th and the Mission Bay Triathlon on October 5th. Right now I am running 4 days per week and will start my swim training tomorrow. I won't really do too much biking until about a month before the first tri. Biking is by far my best discipline and running is my worst.

I usually train by myself so having a mentor would be an added bonus.

Welcome to the group jjpipp. Very audacious goals, I like that you have signed up and committed. Running is also my weakness, so I did a similiar strategy by running 5k's, 10k's and a marathon. Focusing on your weakest discipline is good, but I really reccomend you not lose focus on the bike until a month before. Of the 3 disciplines, running is the one where you can easily over train and/or cause injury, especially when you are first starting to re-lose weight. Additionally, the cool thing about multi sport is that it is multi sport, meaning the gains made in one sport actually HELP the other sports, plus doing 3 sports keeps it interesting.

That said, I think you will get alot more out of running 3 times/week and using that fourth day to bike. The additional biking will strengthen your legs, increase your cardio, help you lose weight and allow your body to rest. All of which will actually help your running more than throwing in a fourth day of running, which may actually cause injury. If you look at many online and book training programs, it is not unusual to see 3 days running, 2 days biking, 2 days swimming. Make sure you have a rest day by utilizing one of the bike/run days to do a bike/run brick. Time allowing, you can pretty much swim any day you bike or run as swimming generally does not hurt the other two.

Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-07 8:19 AM

Welcome loveatfirsttri, great name!

Ahhh, the old New Years Eve HIM goal, very nice. You will do great!! I will give you some advice on what I have been doing for my long distance training and will let you know how that worked out for me as my first HIM is in 10 days.

Swim: You said you are a good swimmer, that is a great start. Plus, you have done an OLY and the HIM swim is only 400 yards, or about 6-8 min generally, longer than what you have already done. Just keep up a few swims/week so that you do not come out of the water tired. Figure out a good, long, relaxed swim stroke.

Bike: I hear Vineman is a tough bike, based on your description I assume the bike course is the same. I am still learning how to train hills (My IM is Lake Placid, which is on a SKI MOUNTAIN, I live in FL, near the water, which is pancake flat). That said, I reccomend 2 things to help you.

1: Long rides. I started riding with a group on Sat mornings, we ride 60-70 miles. When I started it felt difficult, but it is amazing how fast you get strong. Most places have group rides. I was hesitant at first (being the guy with those aero bars) but the roadies were much more inviting than I expected. Don't be afraid to tell them you are new to group riding and want to learn, they will respect that.

2: Hill repeats. If you live somewhere that has hills, do hill repeats once every 2 weeks. If you google "cycling hill repeats" you will get all sorts of hits.

Running: I reccomend going to www.runnersworld.com and typing in half marathon training plan into the search. Here is a descent article: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244--6851-2-2X5X8... . Then, customize the plan to include the multisport. These generally have you run 4-5 days/week, shorten one of the days and replace one with a bike. Make sure you do the long run and the quality run (fartlek, tempo, neg split/track).

As far as weight loss, you are correct, I lost 10 pounds this year and my cycling is much faster, especially in hills. However, it is tough to lose weight and train for a distance event. MANY people gain weight, which is the #1 reason people give up on marathon training. Portion control is key and eating the right foods, not less food. You have to make sure you eat properly before a workout and ESPECIALLY within 2 hours after.

Good luck!

Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-07 12:59 PM

I see the group is still listed as open. So I was hoping to join. Any space left. I am new hence my user name. I come from a soccer background and have done a bit of running. I have always thought about doing a triathlon but never made the leap. I am 29 with three beautiful daughters and a very supportive wife (she is beautiful too). Anyway, it wasnt until my middle daughter, Madison 7yoa, signed up for a race that I thought seriously about tri-ing. Helping her train was training in and of itself and she began begging me to do the race with her. I happily agreed and I am now about four weeks out from my first tri. I have been training for about two maybe three months now and LOVE it. Hope to join your group for insight, inspiration, and a general good time. Thanks MIKE

Absolutelluy Mike. Very addictive sport, smart to get the family involved early :-)

Also, sometimes it is the insight of the young that makes the most sence. Nobody tells it as straight as a seven year old. "Training Hurts", that is awesome!

Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-07 12:59 PM

I have a question. What would you say is the avg speed for a 20k bike ride in a tri? I have been avg around 20-22 my last few rides and they have been pretty hard rides, I was really pushing myself. But, I was looking at last years times for the bike portion, and it seemed like everybody was in between 30-33 mins, and to do 30 mins over 12 mi you have to avg 24 mph. I'm getting a little bit worried bc I am not to that point yet and I am trying to place top 3 in my AG. Thanks for any advice you can give me.

I would say the AVERAGE rider is between 17-19 MPH. Here is what I often see:

1: The bike course is a different distance than is advertised. The first tri I did (and the only one I did each year for a few years) always advertised the ride as 11 miles, but people were doing it in like 23 mins! Well, it was actually 9.5 miles. If "everybody" or a large percentage are riding 20k in 30-33 mins, the course distance has to be off, no other way to explain it unless it is downhill with the wind the entire way.

2: Unlike running, you really do ride faster on race day than you train. I train at 20-22 MPH, I race at 23-25 MPH. Not sure why.

Now, to answer your actual question. If you are training solo at 20-22 MPH, you will do very well. 24 MPH is considered VERY fast. I rode 24.11 in Chicago and finished 55th overall on the bike out of like 4,000. At St. A's last week, 24.5 put me 6th in age group (out of 418) and 20th overall out of almost 3600. The last sprint I did, 22.55 (I had just come off the marathon and had not been riding) put me 2nd in AG, 4th overall. That said, unless there are super bikers at this race, you should hit your goal pretty easily. Do not be surprised if you ride close or above 24 on race day.

Read the drafting rules very close (Section 5.10 of USAT rules). When approaching somebody you can suck right up to their back wheel and then pass them (DO NOT LINGER, even for a second). Once you complete the pass (which means your front wheel breaks the plane of their front wheel), they HAVE TO drop back out of the draft zone (called being overtaken) before they can try to take the position back. This "legal" drafting helps strong riders that overtake alot of other riders. Just be very careful, the entire pass must be a fluid motion, no lingering and no hesitation and you must complete the pass (ie move from outside the drafting zone, into it and past the rider) in 15 seconds. Section 5.10 h1.



Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-08 11:14 AM

Thanks for the help. I was thinking along those lines, I thought maybe they extended the race but what you said makes more since. I'll go measure it out and see what it really is later today. What do you recommend doing to increase endurance and speed? Should I ride longer and slower or shorter and faster? I've been trying to mix it up but I know nothing about bike training. Thanks for the help.

Alright, as promised, Gnu's bike recommendations. Biking is my strength, really my only strength, so I will share what I have. As I had mentioned earlier, it is pretty difficult for the average person to overtrain on the bike. You either do not have time, or you get hungry. Pro cyclists like Lance spend 5-8 hours/day on their bikes. That said, the 3-5 hours/week we spend is not going to kill us.

Cycling speed is about 1 thing and 1 thing only, how fast can I pedal (Cadence) in the largest possible gear. If you can turn your 53 front/11 back at 100 cadence, you will be riding like 45+MPH. So you need to do drills that will build both leg strength AND the ability to turn a high cadence. I am willing to bet nobody in this forum is going to turn their 53/11 at 100, so where is the balance?? One item of note about cadence, turning an extremely high cadence will burn your legs out for the run, so when you read about cycling, read about TRIATHLON cycling. Lance was famous for turning like 110 cadence for 100+ miles, you do that and your legs will be spaghetti for the run. Most IM training says stick at around 80-85, OLY 85-90. For sprints you can spin it out because you are not on the bike or run long enough to worry too much.

Here are some drills:

Long ride - this one is a no brainer, dull miles do help in cycling, just like running. But some of the below drills can be incorporated into the ride to help.

Single Leg drills - `This can be done on a long ride or while on a trainer. While riding, only pedal with one foot for 30 seconds - 1 min as hard as you can. Make sure the other is either off the pedals or totally limp. Then, switch legs. Spin for a minute and repeat. 3-5 times or as many as you can do. This teaches your muscles both the push and pull parts of the stroke. Although, there are several articles about if you should really pull up or just un-weight on the up stroke, this drill makes you learn if you are one of the people who actually leave weight on the upstroke and are fighting yourself.

Overgearing - I do this on a trainer for control, but can be done outside. Basically, I put the bike in the big chain ring up front and the little in back (53/11 for me) and pedal 10, 15, 60 mins, whatever you can do. this builds the STRENGTH part. Try to ride at like 60-65 Cadence, whatever gearing puts you there. Drop the back gearing until you reach the cadence, then as you strengthen, build time or lower the gearing.

Spinning - Exact opposite as overgearing. Spin at like 100 - 110 cadence. This teaches your muscles to spin fast. This is very tiring.

TAPATA's - These can be done in running or cycling. This is a great workout if you are short on time.
- Warm up for 5-10 mins easy spin
- Spin as fast and hard as you can for 50 seconds (Zone 4-5)
- STOP for 10 second
- Repeat 2 - 6 times (believe it or not, you will be smoked at this point)
- Cool down for 5 - 10 mins
This entire workout may only be 15 - 30 min long, but you will be torn up! I have mixed it up a few times and did 4-5 reps of the tapata, spun for 3 mins, then did 4-5 more, but that is a suicide mission.

Hill Repeats - This is pretty self explanatory. Hills are incredible for building strength. If you can climb, you can crush many people. I live in FL, I cannot climb. I am going to get killed in Lake Placid because of it. I need to go find some hills!

Fartleks - Like running, do fartleks. A trainer is a more controlled environment, but again, outside is fine.
- Warm up for 10 - 15 min
- Ride in Zone 4 (about 85 - 90% HR or perceived effort) for 8 minutes
- Recover for 4 mins
- repeat, as many times as you can
- cool down 5 - 10 mins
If 8min/4min is too much, try 4/4, or heck, 4/8. Whatever you can do and build up

Riding when Windy - I hate wind, but it is the only hill I have in FL. Instead of seeing a windy day as a day to either not ride or keep it on the trainer, go ride right into it! This works like riding hills but you get the thrill of the wind through your hair and it is easier to stay cool. OK, that is a nice way to say look at the bright side, these still hurt, but are effective.

Multiple Gear - My coach taught me this, I like it and should be integrated into the long ride. Most people have 18 - 20 gears on their bikes. Most people, use about 3 of them. After a warm up, have your front chain ring in the big gear and you back in the big gear. Ride for a minute, then change the back 1 gear, ride a min, change again... Go all the way to the smallest gear in the back, then walk your way back up to the biggest. Why??? This does 2 things. It teaches you to shift (many people forget or are scared to shift) it also teaches your muscles to work under different loads. I REALLY like this drill. Even if you forget to do all the gears, just ride in a gear that feels...wrong once in a while and switch it around, this will do the same thing.

So that is all I have on cycling for now. Like swimming, most do not do drills in cycling, they just put in mind numbing miles. This is a quality v quantity argument. You can get more out of less time if you do it right. Plus, drills makes it more interesting and gives you something to think about OTHER than watching your trip computer go 10.1, 10.2, 10.3.... AHHHHH Also remember, especially on long rides, EAT!!! Eat every 15 - 20 mins. If you are 30 miles away from your house, have no food and get hungry (heck even if you have food), it is too late. Do not wait until you are hungry. The human body can process about 250 - 400 calories/hour (depending on your size). Cycling hard for an hour can burn over 1000 cal, see the problem?? If you start with an empty tank and/or fall behind the "can process" side of the equation, you WILL BONK! Riding after a bonk is miserable... trust me...

FYI... The average GU pack is 100 -110 cal and a powerbar is 240, do not forget about the calories in your drink if you are using gatorade or an electrolyte drink...

I know this is alot, but putting it in writing is also helping me re-focus. Use what you can, build it into your routines slowly. Enjoy!

Ride hard, enjoy...
Gnu



Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-09 7:50 AM

Glad it was helpful. The Single Leg Drill is pretty impossible without clips or a cage. If you belong to a health club or have access to a stationary they usually have rubber "cages" to hold your feet. If not, that one is out.

Scared of clips eh? I was to. When I finally got them and got used to them I was amazed how easy they are to use. you come right out when you want to. They are a huge help with efficiency. For all the reasons you cannot do the SLD is why they are good. On the upstroke your feet slip off the pedals. You do not realize it, but there is wasted effort in repositioning every stroke, even if you do not realize it. Plus, you should drive through the bottom of the stroke (picture scraping mud off of the bottom of your foot) before you start the up stroke. Without clips, you cannot do that.

One thing I will say about clips (or as they are oddly called, clipless pedals???), if you get them.. you WILL tip over at one stop sign within the first day of riding them. Anybody who tells you they did not do this, is lying :-) That said, practice getting in and out of them before race day. If you chose not to go that route, not a problem either. Good luck!

That's a great article. I am starting my biking routine on Monday and will certainly use these drills to help out. Thanks for the info!!

This is a great article. I've done the single leg drills on the trainer, but nothing else because I wasn't introduced.

I'm a truely newbie and have questions. How do I know if I'm in 53 frong/11 back for gear? I have a vintage Centurion bike from the '80s that I got when I was in college. Back then, I rode this bike everywhere everyday for transportation and never thought about gears, except that it be comfortable. The gears I have are the little levers.

To measure cadence, I would need a bike computer, right?

Great questions. For the gearing, it is probably stamped on the front. Or, you can do it the old fashioned way and count, which is what you will need to do in the back. Really, the number does not matter. The point is using all the gears to practice shifting and different loads on your legs. As far as cadence, you can manually do it by counting (cadence is revolutions per minute). I do reccomend a bike computer, even a simple cateye is only like $30 and can give you cadence and speed, which are very useful training data. Something that simple does not let you download, but gives instant feedback and gets you 75% of the way there. If you have several hundred to drop on a computer, save it and spend that on a nice used bike :-)

As an FYI.. You do not have to spend $5000 on a bike. My first Tri bike was a really nice Quintana Roo Kilo that I bought on eBay for $470. I rode it for 2 seasons and then sold i on eBay for $720 (note time of year to buy and sell bikes on eBay).

Good luck, happy riding!

Thanks for the bike info. I am very thankful to be a part of this group. I am having computer issues and have not been able to get on as enough as I would like. I plan on upgrading my membership and using the training log portion of BT. I live in central florida and though I am new I have lofty goals of competing in a longer race this year. My training has been going well and I am definitely motivated. My question is if anyone nows about any races prefereably later in the season that I could still get into. Oly of HIM distance. Thanks in advance.

Very smart taking advantage of a training program. This will give you specific goals every day ad help motivate you through the training. Also love the lofty goals for an OLY or HIM in year 1. I will include a few races I hear are good, but before that, give some advice I gave a guy I did my Brick with Saturday.

Big races as the first. I have alot of respect for people that do big races as their first. I have one good friend that I cannot convince to do a sprint, she is like "why bother"? Here is why... If you love Tri you love racing. I do enjoy training, but I LOVE racing! Starting out with an Oly or HIM takes ALOT of training, ALOT! While a Sprint you can pull off after 2-3 months (many do a sprint with no training just to finish). The reason I recommend a sprint first is 3 reasons:

1. You get to understand the intricacies of a tri, the transition, the experience, etc... This will make it so you are less intimidated come the big race.
2. Most important... this is my friends issue. If you spend tons of money and hundreds of hours training for something before you ever toe the line, your expectations are HUGE!! Many are burned out before they ever show up, which leads to a one and done experience.
3. You can do 2 sprints/month and not have to taper or recover much once you are in race condition.

That said, I recommend to everybody I workout with, introduce to the sport, etc... to do a sprint or two first. The more races I can get in the better I feel. It is killing me this year because I am doing IMFL 70.3 and IMLP and cannot race sprints (they will interfere with my training) all summer. Then, I do not know how long it will take to recover.

You may also want to go spectate or volunteer at a race, that really gets you pumped. FLIM 70.3 is Sunday in Disney. I'll be there competing.

OK, now to answer your question.

Sprints in Central FL.
Fred Sommers does some good races, www.sommersports.com
A FL series called Publix Family Fitness Weekend does real nice races www.familyfitnessweekend.com
Chris from DRC Sports does good races in Crystal River and Jax www.drcsports.com

Oly:
In Sept there is a great Oly race in Disney for Prostate Cancer www.afactri.com

HIM:
MiamiMan in... Miami in November. www.multirace.com/miamiman They also do an Oly the same weekend. Hear this is a great race.

Hope this helps.

Gnu

Thanks for the great advice. I would race all the time if I could. I am doing a mini sprint at the end of this month...first race, very excited. And I will do a couple more sprints through the summer. I know I want to do some of the publix family fitness races not sure which ones though. I am going to check into the miamiman race you mentioned sounds perfect for timing as I hope to have my training built up by then. I have a couple running races already planned. I am having a blast training but I live for competition and it is racing that lured me into the tri world so no worrys there for me.


Edited to add: I am going to go watch the 70.3 at disney so I can get a feel for that type of race.

Edited by triguynewbie 2008-05-12 7:38 AM

Very good. That is perfect then!!

Maybe I will see you at Disney. I am #1905, M35-39. I am in Swim wave 15 at 7:03am. If you see me, come introduce yourself, I love putting faces to names.

I just saw where you lived, you are close enough to Tampa to do some races over here also. Morton Plant Mease and Maderia Beach Mad Dog sprints are excellent races. MPM is a mini St. Anthony's, hosted by the same group (MPM is a sister hospital to St. A's). Great race if you do not mind running the first half of the run on loose sand, the bike course is REALLY fun!. Mad Beach is hosted by the St. Pete Mad Dogs (many bike shops in Tampa Bay give 10-20% discount to SPMD members and it only costs $25/year, great investment!!!). MB claims to be the biggest Sprint in FL. I will of course be riding 165 miles that weekend, no fun Sprint races during IM training :-( MPM ius the same weekend as IMLP.



Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-12 8:21 AM

The mini race I am doing is the Mad Dog race at Madeira beach. I had a commitment for sunday already so I had to do the mini on saturday. Plus my daughter is doing the children version that morning. I figure it will be good experience regardless of distance. I am very excited. I will be looking for you this weekend at Disney so good luck. Thanks for the advice on the MiamiMan race. It is still open and I will probably sign up this week.

Hope you guys don't get sick of me posting. Anyway, ? for all. I have fallen so much in love with riding my bike that I am constantly finding excuses to skip my other workouts for the bike. Ie: dont feel like driving to the pool, or it is probably crowded right now, my running shoes are probably still wet ect. Does anyone else have a favorite discipline and how do I get more motivated for the swim. When I only planned on doing sprints this year it didn't really bother me that much that I don't swim nearly as much as I need to but now that I am planning on doing a HIM I know I need to get my butt in gear and start swimming more. I actually enjoy swimming I just LOVE the bike.

triguynewbie, I'm having the same problem except I'm avoiding the biking.  LOL  I find it intimidating still.  I guess it just takes discipline???

I am afraid Nichole nailed it, discipline... The pool is the hardest thing to get to, you cannot just step outside. Biking is rockin fun. But think of it this way, like a big tub of ice cream... you do not want to eat it all right away, you will ruin it. If all you do is ride, you will get bored with it. Think of the swimming and running as ways to make you cherish the riding part. And PS... I know where you live... wet shoes... it has not rained in FL in 4 months, you do not have wet shoes unless you are wearing them in the pool, wait you said you have not been going to the pool. That excuse is REALLY stretching it :-)