PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL (Page 2)

Hey folks, back from my little trip. I should have some time tomorrow to post a few thoughts, maybe some questions to get things going.

Shawna, I'm very impressed and inspired by your story.  Sounds like you need to have more people encouraging you to achieve instead of telling you what you can't do; and we'll all help with that.

More to come tomorrow, thanks everyone.

Welcome back JD!

Shawna I am encouraged by your story too and look forward to training alongside you (in an online kind of way)

I haven't logged my weekend training yet but will get to it soon.  Did everyone have a good weekend? get any training in?

This is my recovery week and man am I ready for it!  I have a question though...what exactly should a recovery week look like?  I think I read somewhere that it should be a 40% reduction.  Does that sound right?  Is that across all 3 disciplines or can you continue with your typical swim workout since it is not too taxing on the body?

I had a pretty active weekend.  Other than the hours of shoveling snow, I ran for an hour and 10 min on Sat on the tmill.  I did hill intervals.   I was supposed to do 10x2', but I only could do 6.  I still ran for the whole time.  Yesterday I swam for 50min and biked for 50m.  I am pretty sure I am taking it easy this week.  The official HIM training starts next Monday.  21 weeks out.

I do have a question.  I follow the BT plans pretty well.  If I don't do the exact workout, I usually get the time in.  The issue I have is with the swim.  There is no way I can get the yardage in for the time I am supposed to.  I am just a slow swimmer, for now.  Do I just cut it off when I swam for the alloted time or do I keep swimming until I hit the yardage?

Recover weeks are one of those topics that there are tons of opinions on. Part of the reason is that there are so many factors involved: what is your base training, your age, type of race you are training for, etc. etc. And you also should LISTEN to your body; i.e. how physically/mentally tired are you? 40% sounds reasonable to me; just don't be afraid to adjust things based on where you are at as an individual. If the swims are not tiring you out,  you're making good progress, and you are mentally invigorated to do them -> I'd say go for it. Anybody else have thoughts on that?

I've always been more geared towards getting in the distance myself. When the race comes, I have to do a certain distance, not a certain time. Early on in the training, maybe you can lean more towards the time so you don't injure yourself or over train; and you also want to work on your form/technique (which gets worse as you get more tired). But at some point you need to start bridging that gap and start getting the distances in. Cozumel is going to be 2.4 miles of swimming, no matter how long it takes us, right?

NOTE: I'm going to open this back up now that I'm back from my trip. We have 6 people (one dropped out), so I think we might be able to add 1 or 2 more.

JD

Josh -

Yikes, man!  Does shoveling snow count as crosstraining?  This will be motivation.  How can I not work out when you're getting your endurance time in between snow shoveling intervals and Steve is looking for holes in the ice to catch a little paddle time.  It'll be hard to leave a blank day in my Training Log.

This is officially the start of my 'Training Year' - Joe Friel style.  I've got my self-made plan from the bible, too.  I had a nice 2.5 hr ride and a swim today. 

I'm looking forward to the next few months.  I'm already inspired by your stories. 

Will 

I've got a question about strength training. I enjoy lifting and I did a lot last year. However, I wonder when you know if you should focus elsewhere. I'm lucky in that I don't have any lower extremity power issues as far as the weight room goes (my upper body could use plenty of work...). I haven't done any lifting in 3 months, but I could step into the gym and 'max out' on Joe Friel's Max Strength weight recommendations today without much difficulty. Endurance and core strength are much greater limiters for me.

What have you all found as suggestions for when it would be more beneficial to put that time to sport-specific use rather than weights?  I'm probably putting too much thought into this, but I'm stuck on whether to drop that hour a week I put into lifting.  All the experts say you need to do it, but that's an hour of other stuff I could fit in.

Thanks. And great job on the swim, Tim. I was in the same boat last year. Before starting all this last year I almost drowned trying to snorkel and could barely make it the length of a pool. That first non-stop mile felt great. I think you're already faster than I am...  Congrats.

Will

2000 yds nonstop is great - and that's really not a bad time at all for us non-swimmers! It will come down as you work on it more. You are in fine shape distance-wise for Olympic tri's. My suggestion would be to start working on swim intervals to help with the speed. Swimming is so much more reliant on technique, which sometimes starts falling apart when we get tired. The masters groups I've worked with are usually very heavy on the intervals for that reason.

Here's an idea of how to do that, using 100 yd intervals. First, do a couple 100's at a nice steady pace, not pushing it too hard or sprinting, just steady. Now add about 15 seconds, and that will be your interval time. For example, if you were doing the 100's in 1:45, make your interval 2:00. Do your first 100; and then you have until the 2:00 mark to rest and start your next one. As you go, you may find that 15 second rest time starts dwindling down a litte, but that's OK   If you get to where you can do 10 of those intervals comfortably, then you can start trying to drop 5 seconds from your interval time. You can also do this with 200's and even 400's. You still are working on endurance (10-15 seconds is not a ton of rest time); but you also keep your technique and work on speed.

For a variation, you can try descending intervals. Do a set of 4 intervals. First one steady and long. Now with the next 3, try to take a few seconds off your time.

JD

Hi Will, regarding strength training; I personally do weight training 2 days per week, because I like to have a little bit of muscle mass and tone; especially as I get a bit older. There are tons of raging debates about strength training, but I'd say it comes down to a personal decision on your priorities. My personal compromise is that I make weights the lowest priority, so if I have to drop something that is the first to go. I also don't do any massive weights or sets. I do 2 sets, first with a weight that I can do 6-8 times; and then drop a bit so I can get 7-10 on the second set. Weird, but it works for me; takes less than 45 minutes to complete usually. Purists would argue that I have extra upper body mass that does me no good and weighs me down; but as you'll hear me say often - I'm not getting paid for this!... and my wife kind of likes a bit of muscle

JD

Hi Tom - come on in and join us!

JD

Hello,

 I would like to join in if you are still open.  I am new to triathlon, last year I did my first sprint - the Pacific Coast Triathlon.  I also did my first 10k and Marathon.  In May I was 255, and today I am proud to say I weighed in at 204.4 this morning.  I am an ex college football player, so for my body type, I am not going to get a lot lighter.

My important races this year are Califonia HIM in April, and Canada IM in August.  I am doing a HM in January, mostly for training purposes, although Carlsbad (near San Diego) is supposed to be a really nice one.

Basically, I am addicted, and want to talk to people that feel the same way.

I will be 32 in 5 days, and I am married for 6 and half years.  We have 2 kids, boys, that give us a great workout by themselves.  I work long hours, but no travel so I can get my training in early morning or late night when the rest of the fam is asleep.

My wife is very sensitive to the time I spend doing this, so I find myself up at odd hours.

I hope I am able to join, and I look forward to talking with you all.

Thank you,

Mike

Hi Mike, happy to have you join... welcome!

I'm going to go ahead and close the group now, since we have 9 members including myself. Here is the list that I have:

Should be a fun group - please don't be afraid to ask any questions or make comments, suggestions, etc. This will work the best if we all participate and share ideas and opinions. Let the games begin!

JD

Thanks for taking your time with us, JD.

Here's a question for the group. Does anyone count their strokes per length? I started counting today and got a consistent 18, but I don't have any idea where most people are.

I started incorporating some drills today... hehe. As if I didn't look ridiculous enough when I'm out there. That one-arm swim idea provided some entertainment to my audience.

Will

Hello everyone, good to be in the group with you all.  I am about to embark on some serious present wrapping, but wanted to log today's training before starting.

I have not counted strokes, but I will start doing that as I heard that it is a good gauge.  I have been doing drills for the first time for the last 4 weeks, and while I still feel like I look like a walrus flapping around, I can tell they are making a difference as I am getting stronger in the pool.  Keep them up.  I generally do the Cathup Drill, Side Arm Side Kick (on both sides), another version called 6-3-6, and back kick.  It works out to 8 laps worth the way I do them.

I will post my strokes and we'll see what I come up with.

Again, JD, thank you for taking your time to help us all.

Merry Christmas

Funny/Sad story this morning.  I got up really early to head to the gym to get a long workout in as we had a big family day planned.  Went to my local 24 Hour fitness, as I had a long bike planned and it was too cold and dark (37 degrees this morning).  I pulled up to the gym at 4:10, and they were closed.  I decided to wait until 5, but no one showed.  I finally drove back home, caught a few extra hours of sleep, and did the family thing all day.  In the middle of the day, I slipped out to the bike store and bought my trainer, on deep discount, as I have now learned my lesson.  Ended up getting a short ride in during our baby's nap, and will try again tomorrow for the long ride.

Lesson learned, don't depend on a gym when you are too much of a wuss to ride in the cold.  The problem is, I don't have the clothes to ride in that type of cold, or the lights on my bike to feel comfortable in the dark.  Now I don't have excuses, as I can sit in my living room and watch Family Guy Re-runs.

Have a great night.

18 strokes/length sounds pretty good to me. I am normally up a little higher than that (told you swimming was not my strength...). I think stroke-count drills are good for working on efficiency and feel for the water. You might see some variation based on how far someone kicks off the wall, how tall they are, etc. I know yesterday some kids from the swim team with fairly high stroke counts were kicking my butt

3 teens at one time, wow - no wonder you get out there on the bike so much!

I'm guessing the bike part of the tri's will not be an issue for you, that's for sure. And you've got three 1/2 marathons under your belt; now you just have to keep working on that swimming. I am becoming more and more envious of the people that were on swim teams as kids, they just have such a big advantage in that respect.

BTW: don't worry about stopping to breathe for now. Based on your overall fitness level, I would guess that has more to do with needing to control your breathing than a question of fatigue. Work real hard on staying calm in the water, breathe out a little bit at a time under water, and try not to take big gasping breaths when you do breathe. Most new swimmers are basically hyperventilating; they are taking in too much oxygen and not expelling the carbon dioxide. Makes you feel like you're not getting enough air, so you continue to try and suck more in. If you can work on swimming calm and breathing on a nice steady pattern, you'll have less and less need to stop.

Mike (Pac10er); funniest thing I ever saw on stroke counts was a post on that "other" forum, where somebody said their stroke count was 40 strokes/length. One of the swimmers replied with something like "40 strokes?!? Didn't somebody jump in to save you!". Ah, we all have to start somewhere...

You will love having the bike trainer. It is just so convenient to fit in an hour or so on the bike trainer on days where time, weather, etc. does not cooperate. I still can't do more than about 1 1/2 hours max without going stir crazy, but it sure beats doing nothing that day.