US Spy drone captured (Page 2)
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2011-12-13 9:53 AM in reply to: #3936082 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured BrianRunsPhilly - 2011-12-13 7:49 AM What do you think of Dick Cheney's comment that we should have gone in and destroyed it? Sounds easy and a good way to put blame on Obama for failure to act. I am certain the reality of doing so would be much more difficult, both from military and political perspectives. I think that is just another example of Dick Cheney being Dick Cheney. It's been almost 9 years since we went to outright war with another country; I think he's having withdrawals. |
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2011-12-13 10:34 AM in reply to: #3935458 |
Master 2277 Lake Norman, NC | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured Scout7 - 2011-12-12 3:18 PM CBarnes - 2011-12-12 3:04 PM Considering the fact that you can still put together a lot about the technical components when a major airliner crashes, I don't think a nose dive is going to be effective. Plus, there's other concerns; what are the determining factors for when to self-destruct, what are the specific triggers, when do you NOT self-destruct, etc. There's a reason why we don't have doomsday devices in play more often.A self destruct program does not need to be some big explosive device or event this is an aircraft flying very high all you need is a program that wipes the computer files, then goes into a steep dive toward a hard clear surface. I think the problem here is that the drone was stealth designed with radar-absorbing skin. Just allowing the Iranians to examine the pieces of the wreckage (or give it to China to examine) could potentially compromise our current stealth technology. Make it easier to develop missiles that can track and knock down our stealth aircraft. Even if the drone nose-dived in at 400 knots, I don't believe it's the design or data onboard that's the big risk, but rather the actual stealth materials, electronics and flight-control systems that would be most valuable to an "enemy". I'm surprised that the drone didn't have a "dead-man" self-destruct; lose radio contact with the ground for a period of time, say 30 seconds, and it automatically self-destructs. This wouldn't require a self-destruct command to be issued and radioed to the drone. But of course, this was probably overruled as mistakes could be very expensive. I'm assuming these things cost $10 million plus each.
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2011-12-13 10:45 AM in reply to: #3936578 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured Bigfuzzydoug - 2011-12-13 11:34 AM Scout7 - 2011-12-12 3:18 PM CBarnes - 2011-12-12 3:04 PM Considering the fact that you can still put together a lot about the technical components when a major airliner crashes, I don't think a nose dive is going to be effective. Plus, there's other concerns; what are the determining factors for when to self-destruct, what are the specific triggers, when do you NOT self-destruct, etc. There's a reason why we don't have doomsday devices in play more often.A self destruct program does not need to be some big explosive device or event this is an aircraft flying very high all you need is a program that wipes the computer files, then goes into a steep dive toward a hard clear surface. I think the problem here is that the drone was stealth designed with radar-absorbing skin. Just allowing the Iranians to examine the pieces of the wreckage (or give it to China to examine) could potentially compromise our current stealth technology. Make it easier to develop missiles that can track and knock down our stealth aircraft. Even if the drone nose-dived in at 400 knots, I don't believe it's the design or data onboard that's the big risk, but rather the actual stealth materials, electronics and flight-control systems that would be most valuable to an "enemy". I'm surprised that the drone didn't have a "dead-man" self-destruct; lose radio contact with the ground for a period of time, say 30 seconds, and it automatically self-destructs. This wouldn't require a self-destruct command to be issued and radioed to the drone. But of course, this was probably overruled as mistakes could be very expensive. I'm assuming these things cost $10 million plus each. I can understand why it would not have an explosive charge, that is the stuff of movies. But at the minimum you would think they would be able to upload a predetermined flight plan in case of the loss of radio contact exceeds some set period. And a backup to automatically dump/wipe all data and fry the electronics with a power spike. Or maybe it did and we aren't privy to that knowledge. |
2011-12-13 10:52 AM in reply to: #3934039 |
Member 121 Brawley (Middle of the Desert), CA | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured Have you seen the pics/video of that drone that they are showing?? The thing looks in perfect shape. We have pictures of that plane in pieces spread across the desert. No way they pieced it back together that well and that quick. My money says that they found a pic/video online and re-created it to make us think they have our drone |
2011-12-13 10:56 AM in reply to: #3936602 |
Master 2277 Lake Norman, NC | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured BrianRunsPhilly - 2011-12-13 11:45 AM I can understand why it would not have an explosive charge, that is the stuff of movies. But at the minimum you would think they would be able to upload a predetermined flight plan in case of the loss of radio contact exceeds some set period. And a backup to automatically dump/wipe all data and fry the electronics with a power spike. Or maybe it did and we aren't privy to that knowledge. It very well could have. All of the news stories I saw just said that Iran was in possession of the drone and that they suspected it was fairly intact. The data and electronics could be fried. But I'm sure the Pentagon is still freaking over losing the stealth airframe. I heard a rumor that in both Gulf Wars, the air force never used the B2 stealth bomber for fear of losing one in combat. They do cost $1 billion each. They used F-117's but no B2's. Here's a truly WILD conspiracy theory... The military purposely crashed the drone so they could claim that our current stealth technology has been obtained by Iran and China... Thereby making their argument for increased funding for the next generation of stealth so we can stay ahead of the rest of the world. Crazy, eh?
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2011-12-13 11:15 AM in reply to: #3936623 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured lmhutch86 - 2011-12-13 11:52 AM Have you seen the pics/video of that drone that they are showing?? The thing looks in perfect shape. We have pictures of that plane in pieces spread across the desert. No way they pieced it back together that well and that quick. My money says that they found a pic/video online and re-created it to make us think they have our drone So why not release a photo to show that Iran is up to some nonsense? Unfortunately I tend to believe the thing they have is real. |
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2011-12-13 2:59 PM in reply to: #3936629 |
Master 2020 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured Bigfuzzydoug - 2011-12-13 10:56 AM BrianRunsPhilly - 2011-12-13 11:45 AM I can understand why it would not have an explosive charge, that is the stuff of movies. But at the minimum you would think they would be able to upload a predetermined flight plan in case of the loss of radio contact exceeds some set period. And a backup to automatically dump/wipe all data and fry the electronics with a power spike. Or maybe it did and we aren't privy to that knowledge. It very well could have. All of the news stories I saw just said that Iran was in possession of the drone and that they suspected it was fairly intact. The data and electronics could be fried. But I'm sure the Pentagon is still freaking over losing the stealth airframe. I heard a rumor that in both Gulf Wars, the air force never used the B2 stealth bomber for fear of losing one in combat. They do cost $1 billion each. They used F-117's but no B2's. Here's a truly WILD conspiracy theory... The military purposely crashed the drone so they could claim that our current stealth technology has been obtained by Iran and China... Thereby making their argument for increased funding for the next generation of stealth so we can stay ahead of the rest of the world. Crazy, eh?
Actually they have used B2's in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq part deux. Up until recently For every mission , they were flown out of Whitman AFB in Missouri. The trip was over 17 hours they delivered their payload and flew home. During the "Opening scene" in Iraqi freedom, the B2's were ordered to have radio silence and on the way over a United Airlines pilot called out to them over the air wishing them good luck. |
2011-12-13 3:31 PM in reply to: #3935423 |
Master 1681 Rural Ontario | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured I don't think you know what you're talking about. Every military vehicle I have ever been on has a self destruct system: i.e. Starship Enterprise (NCC 1701 ), BattleStar Galactica, Millenium Falcon and Space Ball One. Heck, even my computer has a self-destruct button on the keyboard (Its the one on the left next to the Ctrl and Alt buttons - it has a little window symbol on it. ***Apple users will be very confused here***)
Scout7 - 2011-12-12 2:52 PM I'm interested why people think these devices have self-destructs. Those types of mechanisms are not exactly simple, and because of the complexity they introduce quite a significant failure rate. Most self-destruct mechanisms I've seen in the military involved a grenade or other well-placed explosive charge, or did nothing but render the device inert. Considering the drone doesn't pack an explosive charge by itself, I can't imagine that they would design one in, just in case. As to what happens with the captured drone.... The Iranians will rip it to shreds, analyze it, and possibly pick up some idea of our current capabilities. However, I doubt they will be able to produce their own any time soon, for a variety of reasons. Besides, their military structure does not lend itself well to the use of drones in combat operations. |
2011-12-13 3:33 PM in reply to: #3937269 |
Runner | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured mgalanter - 2011-12-13 4:31 PM I don't think you know what you're talking about. Every military vehicle I have ever been on has a self destruct system: i.e. Starship Enterprise (NCC 1701 ), BattleStar Galactica, Millenium Falcon and Space Ball One. Heck, even my computer has a self-destruct button on the keyboard (Its the one on the left next to the Ctrl and Alt buttons - it has a little window symbol on it. ***Apple users will be very confused here***) Since we are dredging up SB1, I would like to reference the scene where they go to press the cancellation button.... |
2011-12-13 4:18 PM in reply to: #3934039 |
Veteran 334 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured They did use B2's in Kosovo, Iraq, Afganistan and Libya. Although they used to be only flown from Missouri due to security concerns, they now occasionally operate from Diego Garcia, Guam and a couple other locations.
"Thank you for pressing the self destruct button." |
2011-12-13 4:58 PM in reply to: #3936082 |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured BrianRunsPhilly - 2011-12-13 4:49 AM What do you think of Dick Cheney's comment that we should have gone in and destroyed it? Sounds easy and a good way to put blame on Obama for failure to act. I am certain the reality of doing so would be much more difficult, both from military and political perspectives. Wonder what he thinks of Eisenhower's administration (a Republican, with Nixon as his VP) - allowing Gary Powers to crash his U-2 over the Soviet Union? |
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2011-12-14 8:06 AM in reply to: #3937201 |
Master 2277 Lake Norman, NC | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured jhouse4 - 2011-12-13 3:59 PM Bigfuzzydoug - 2011-12-13 10:56 AM BrianRunsPhilly - 2011-12-13 11:45 AM I can understand why it would not have an explosive charge, that is the stuff of movies. But at the minimum you would think they would be able to upload a predetermined flight plan in case of the loss of radio contact exceeds some set period. And a backup to automatically dump/wipe all data and fry the electronics with a power spike. Or maybe it did and we aren't privy to that knowledge. It very well could have. All of the news stories I saw just said that Iran was in possession of the drone and that they suspected it was fairly intact. The data and electronics could be fried. But I'm sure the Pentagon is still freaking over losing the stealth airframe. I heard a rumor that in both Gulf Wars, the air force never used the B2 stealth bomber for fear of losing one in combat. They do cost $1 billion each. They used F-117's but no B2's. Here's a truly WILD conspiracy theory... The military purposely crashed the drone so they could claim that our current stealth technology has been obtained by Iran and China... Thereby making their argument for increased funding for the next generation of stealth so we can stay ahead of the rest of the world. Crazy, eh?
Actually they have used B2's in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq part deux. Up until recently For every mission , they were flown out of Whitman AFB in Missouri. The trip was over 17 hours they delivered their payload and flew home. During the "Opening scene" in Iraqi freedom, the B2's were ordered to have radio silence and on the way over a United Airlines pilot called out to them over the air wishing them good luck. As I said, rumor. If you're correct, rumor debunked and I stand corrected. BTW - I just read that B2s have a payload of 20 tons. Up to 80 500-pounders. I didn't know they had a bay that big. That's actually quite a lot. Certainly not the 35 tons or 140 bombs as a gigantic B-52, but at over half the capacity... I didn't know they were that big. I've never seen one in person. (I know... I know... Stealth!)
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2011-12-14 8:30 AM in reply to: #3936082 |
Runner | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured BrianRunsPhilly - 2011-12-13 7:49 AM What do you think of Dick Cheney's comment that we should have gone in and destroyed it? Sounds easy and a good way to put blame on Obama for failure to act. I am certain the reality of doing so would be much more difficult, both from military and political perspectives. Just to come back to this.... His statement is a judgment call, based on his current view of the risks and rewards. If you view maintaining technical and tactical superiority over other nations as paramount to national security, then the risks of a team being compromised is outweighed by the threat to national security. Fact is, we clandestinely send personnel trained in various skills into countries that we are not at war with, and have done so for years. Satellite recovery, killing/capturing of people, etc. I am not saying that the decision (or lack thereof, as I don't know if an actual no-go order was given or intel was just not acted upon) to attempt a recovery or destruction was right or wrong; as I said, I think that's a value judgment based upon what a person believes to be the risks and rewards associated with a given choice. |
2011-12-14 8:34 AM in reply to: #3937905 |
Buttercup 14334 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured Bigfuzzydoug - 2011-12-14 9:06 AM I've never seen one in person. (I know... I know... Stealth!) I saw one at MacDill AFB. Pretty impressive. Even otherworldly looking. |
2011-12-14 8:50 AM in reply to: #3934039 |
Master 2020 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured I wonder how long it will be before there is an "accident" at the facility where it is located at. |
2011-12-14 11:18 AM in reply to: #3937905 |
Member 51 | Subject: RE: US Spy drone captured It's not a rumor at all and part of the prize of having a 2.22 billion dollar toy, not 1 million, check your references there big guy, is to have fun with and complete missions. They absolutely were in combat, and continually run exercises all the time. Even more so, we did have 21 in operation, but we now have 20 because one was crashed in Guam. Can't comment on that one. Made me cringe. Nevertheless, beyond popular belief they are ALL not at Whiteman AFB. Indeed they are a wonder to see, they are even more of a wonder to be inside, not to mention to even be in the simulator. The bay you speak of, if you only saw it, standing under it, you could truly marvel at the ridiculous amounts of munitions that could be dropped on an awaiting enemy. It would ruin their year. You should see them fly, if you can ever be there, check to see when they have the next wings over Whiteman, it will be there of course along with many other planes. You got any other questions about it, one's I can actually answer? |
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