So, What Happens To You If You Train Too Much? (Page 2)

I think that's exactly what I was trying to say. 

Interesting...

I've noticed that when I take a few days off I can be faster for a few days and then it pretty much goes back to where it was before the rest.  I guess there's an argument for a race taper.

I tend to go harder than what is advised when running.  Most plans want you running hard maybe once a week and Zone 2 most other runs.  I tend to run hard runs 3 or maybe 4 times per week including some hills and then have one slower run and a mid paced long run this late in the year.  I have stayed injury free for about a year and my injuries were shoe related, not due to too much running.

I think the Europeans have some benefits we don't.  Their work week has already been mentioned.  The other is their diet.  They tend to eat less processed stuff with more whole foods.  I don't think they mass farm their animals so much and these things also keep you injury free.

Great thread.  Wish I had the time to over train.  I could probably train more, though, if I slept better.

For me....this. ^^

I couldn't begin to count the number of times we rode out and barely made it back, same with running.  No gels, didn't bring anything to eat......just water and go.  We would just go day after day after day....and then you'd have a day where you couldn't keep up.

Still, dude.....we sound like that guy on the old SNL skit......"Gels??? In my day we had jell-O, nothing else, and we liked it!!! Overtrained??  We couldn't walk and we were Undertrained!!"   

Now I like Trishie's response the best.....watching and supporting my kids is more important than my workouts.  I train....but there is no way in hell I could overtrain.  

I liked my life when I didn't have kids and could just go and go.....I like my life now when I'm busy with kids and fit my training in around them.....it's all good.

And to answer the original question.....if I train too much, at least 3 people's own athletic ambitions are greatly affected....not willing to make that trade these days.  It' s a short window to enjoy my kids as they move forward with their own athletic endeavors.....I don't plan on missing much of it.

As a Australian married to a European, I support this hypothesis....

+1 for sleep. I need 9+ hours when I'm really working hard (which is most of the time).

Another aspect of recovery is nutrition. Not just overall healthy eating but particularly nutrition before, during and after the workout.

It's definitely possible to overtrain without impacting your family life. For example, I bike to work and run at lunch, so I can easily rack up 12-5 hours during the week with max of maybe 3 hours lost to my family (due to bike commuting 2 hours a day). But you can do it with even less. For a trivial example, imagine doing every run as a race at that distance (3 mile run = 5k pace, 6 mile run = 10k pace, etc.). You'd be overtrained in no time. I've gotten overtrained several times by doing too much intensity on my commute. It's fun to do hill repeats with loaded panniers though .

I'd even go so far as to suggest that if you're not worried about overtraining, you should go faster/harder in your workouts. You're leaving fitness on the table. Assuming you care about maximizing fitness - if you're just in it to enjoy the workouts, and you don't enjoy hard workouts, then obviously there's no need to go harder. Also assuming that you're currently injury-free.

Umm.. so?  

I spent  a lot years living abroad among the locals. I think generalizing the people in cultures and making gross comparisons.. is, I'm sorry... ridiculous. 

You do realize you are on Beginner Triathlete right? Wow, I've been s/b/r for many many years and no one ever told me I had to keep up with all of Europe. I better step up my game for all the Aussies coming to race in central IL. 

I understand the idea of your thread but your supporting evidence is meaningless to me. I am not racing a pro or going to Europe anytime soon. What I am doing is staying active 6 days a week and racing a few events in the summer. Maybe I am not your target audience as I don't have much love for long distance events. My training has to fit into my life, not be the central focus of my life.

But to the point of your original post - I have never been over trained in the last 20 years of my attempts to remain physically fit nor have I ever felt concerned about being over trained.

My opinion about the threads I have read about over training on BT:  a lot of people who post those threads have been away from physical activity for a while and their bodies are going through the normal feelings of adaptation. They mistake feelings of fatigue for over training. Often they are beginners, they have found a new love for being physically active then all of the sudden one day the passion is not there, they are tired, wore out and post on BT for sympathy, understanding or a kick in the pants.

I know.. but.. man, I've sat through some scathing, less than light hearted Euro/vs/American criticisms whenever I've gone abroad.. And I bit the bullet during them in a self depreciating way.. and now.. with 20/20 hindsight have a really different outlook.

So I have to admit, I am sensitive when the across the ocean comparisons happen... 

But sorry TryTri, I wasn't really addressing your comment directly.. I just liked how you framed Tom's quote. 

Does this help? It's not quite the highest training load that you're shooting for, but the highest level of adaptation. Adaptation is a balancing act of load and recovery. They have to work together to build up high, otherwise things will topple over.

My biggest concern? I have other roles to fill. I *could* train more hours, but I have a 40+ hour a week job that requires me to be pretty lucid, mentally. When I've been doing a lot of training, the fatigue starts to make it harder for me to fill my role at the job that funds the tri habit. I've had weeks where I had to take an extra day or two off because I was too tired to do my job effectively.

I think everyone finds the training load that is best for their body, mind, and life. That's what I did for my upcoming IM - I found the sweet spot where I'm training as much as I can while still being a (relatively) functional human being otherwise. Triathlon, even being an Ironman (potentially) is but a small part of my life, and not the most important part.

Tom, Age Groupers are in the sport to enjoy it.  They are free to prioritize their lives any way they want and to participate in triathlon with as much or little training as they want.  I would frame your statement differently, but there is something to it.

It's not "American Age Groupers", it may be Americans, or everyone these days.   But there are a lot of 'fads' or 'myths' about training going around that most people believe.  They are perpetuated by books like "The Time Crunched Triathlete" and a variety of other sources.  The idea is that you can improve your endurance sport performance with less volume and higher intensity.  It's like trying to bake your Thanksgiving turkey in 2 hours instead of 6 by tripling the temperature in the oven.

Other fads that are either bad, or neutral?  minimalist running shoes, zero drop shoes, the idea of 'junk miles', the idea that an Elite's training plan should be scaled down for a newb, 90 strides per minute is the best way to run, forefoot is necessary....on and on.

The current drought of world class American distance runners is no surprise.  How many of today's middle distance runners train the way Lydiard trained Snell?  Plus we are in the era of PEDS.  I think the only reason today's distance runners aren't SLOWER is the PEDS.  Why are today's Ironman winners arguably not faster than those of 20 years ago? (not assuming PEDS in triathlon, btw)

I wouldn't point the fingers at age groupers and certainly not at their dedication or motivation.  I'd put the onus directly on misinformation and spread it all the way across the spectrum.  I don't think laziness has anything to do with it personally.

just as another perspective from a newb AG:

I started into this tri thing about a year ago. No friends who did them (that i knew of at the time), no coaches, nothing. In my head the best way to train was to just swim, bike, run every day. I obviously didn't have time for that so I would pick two and do them. So in total volume I probably wasn't overtraining since I only had about 2 to 2 1/2 hours a day to train. However, I believe that some of my current knee pain is due to "overtraining". I overtrained because I was running 5-6 bricks a week back to back to back day in and day out. I didn't listen to my body when things hurt, this is triathlon and I have been a lazy pos for two years so of course it hurts. I had no idea what a bike fit was. I bought my first pair of running shoes (since being issued a pair in the usmc over 10 years ago) about 6 months into the training. Until then, I ran in basketball shoes. I didn't know what fueling was, I would just go and drink a little water along the way. So maybe you call it just "bad training" vs. "overtraining" but I was definitely overworking muscle groups and joints that needed a break. So what happens when you overtrain? things hurt and no matter how tough you are they hurt bad enough you have to stop. That's basically it.

Fast forward to today and I have a swim coach, joined a local tri group, learned how to fuel, got better gear, read about training programs, etc. It has made a huge difference in performance and pain levels although I am still taking it easy on the knees until I feel like I have healed.

It’s totally your perspective.  I’m new to triathlon.  I’ve done three sprints and an oly.  In my limited experience in Florida, triathlon is a sport for people with money who’ve grown too old to play whatever sport they grew up playing who want to prove something to themselves, and younger people who aren’t very good athletes. 

Top tiered American athletes don’t do endurance sports.  We care about explosive athleticism and violence.  It doesn’t have anything to do with training methods. 

see also: money

This!

Hmm.  I'm doing something wrong.

I don't have money, I grew up running and I'm faster now, the only thing I'm proving to myself is that there is some of ME left inside that doesn't have to answer to anyone else, and I've met some damn good younger athletes that I'm sure aren't doping.

And what is your definition of top tiered athlete?  I think I may be missing mainstream America since I'm only familiar with a few elite endurance athletes.

Maybe you should move to Texas and widen your experience? They say everything is bigger here...

Can you explain what you meant by that?

I am newb entirely, meaning I didn't come from any one sport before tacking tri, I was NO SPORT. 

But as a keen observer of American culture from the heart of obesity land (some of you may know us as flyover country) I just have to point out how you missed an opportunity for a brilliant multi-level comparison here. 

Here in the sticks, we don't triple the heat in an oven. We plunge our turkeys into deep fryers. And sometimes, burn down our own houses or neighbors' houses in the process. 

Something about shortcuts, American diet and exercise and deep frying just seems right for this discussion. (Seriousl,y you made a great comparison, I just couldn't resist the turkey fryer thought.)

You know, like the Brownlees. 

It's amazing we can even include triathlon in the olympics, considering we only have old rich people and young crappy athletes.

And you know, I don't think I heard a single complaint about people in America having problems watching those athletes at weird times and all...