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2013-04-26 11:19 AM
in reply to: #4716061

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Master
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Washington, DC Metro
Subject: RE: Micro managing
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 10:39 AM

BikerGrrrl - 2013-04-25 7:53 PM I guess I would view that as micro managing, but maybe I am missing some subtlety here. She was the sole recipient of these errata (come from publisher not me). I guess I have to ask more pointed questions like "how is your every day work going, do you have anything outstanding that you want to discuss?". I don't know... I am open to suggestion.

Yes this type of question would get me job searching in about 2 minutes flat - if I have a job to do no one should be required to follow up to make sure I am doing my job - that is what you are paying me for.

I have had this conversation with a new manager and I basically told him if you question my work you better have cause to question it and be prepared for an arguement because I am an adult and I don't need babysitting.

Sounds like some people don't understand that the paycheck they receive comes with responsibility!

Wow.  Really?  Seems pretty bold to me.  Quite honestly if any of my employees said anything even remotely like that to me then I would help them look for a new job in 2 minutes flat... by giving them all the time they need... uh bye, bye.

You do realize that part of your manager's job is to ensure that you get your work done properly and on time, right?



2013-04-26 12:33 PM
in reply to: #4716247

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2013-04-26 12:39 PM
in reply to: #4716143

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2013-04-26 12:39 PM
in reply to: #4716247

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Subject: RE: Micro managing
Sous - 2013-04-26 12:19 PM
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 10:39 AM

BikerGrrrl - 2013-04-25 7:53 PM I guess I would view that as micro managing, but maybe I am missing some subtlety here. She was the sole recipient of these errata (come from publisher not me). I guess I have to ask more pointed questions like "how is your every day work going, do you have anything outstanding that you want to discuss?". I don't know... I am open to suggestion.

Yes this type of question would get me job searching in about 2 minutes flat - if I have a job to do no one should be required to follow up to make sure I am doing my job - that is what you are paying me for.

I have had this conversation with a new manager and I basically told him if you question my work you better have cause to question it and be prepared for an arguement because I am an adult and I don't need babysitting.

Sounds like some people don't understand that the paycheck they receive comes with responsibility!

Wow.  Really?  Seems pretty bold to me.  Quite honestly if any of my employees said anything even remotely like that to me then I would help them look for a new job in 2 minutes flat... by giving them all the time they need... uh bye, bye.

You do realize that part of your manager's job is to ensure that you get your work done properly and on time, right?

I was always taught that a manager's job was to ensure that their people had the resources they needed to work effectively, to listen, and to deflect BS from above. It was extremely rare that I'd have to check someone's work unless they asked.

2013-04-26 12:41 PM
in reply to: #4716410

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Subject: RE: Micro managing
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 11:33 AM 

Nope my manager's job is to make sure to hire people that can do their job properly without babysitting - and that is what they did when they hired me.  If you have people under you that cannot do their work without constant supervision did you ever think that they were a bad choice for the hire in the first place.

If I have questions I will ask - If I don't have any questions then the job will be done properly and on time.  When I fail to provide my work on time and properly then by all means provide all of the supervision you feel is necessary.

... which begs the question -- how does the manager notice if you've "failed to provide your work on time and properly"?

There needs to be some verification in place -- either asking the customer on a periodic basis (as mentioned above), or a tracking log for activities, or the manager asking a question now and then (or keeping an eye on the email account for errata).  That's not "babysitting", that's not "constant supervision", that's accountability.

I do agree that asking "how is everything going, is there anything you want to discuss" is unlikely to be useful.  It might help unearth employees who are afraid to ask how to do a task -- but highly unlikely to unearth a shirker.

2013-04-26 12:42 PM
in reply to: #4716211

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2013-04-26 12:44 PM
in reply to: #4716424

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2013-04-26 1:23 PM
in reply to: #4716422

Master
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Subject: RE: Micro managing
BrianRunsPhilly - 2013-04-26 1:39 PM
Sous - 2013-04-26 12:19 PM
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 10:39 AM

BikerGrrrl - 2013-04-25 7:53 PM I guess I would view that as micro managing, but maybe I am missing some subtlety here. She was the sole recipient of these errata (come from publisher not me). I guess I have to ask more pointed questions like "how is your every day work going, do you have anything outstanding that you want to discuss?". I don't know... I am open to suggestion.

Yes this type of question would get me job searching in about 2 minutes flat - if I have a job to do no one should be required to follow up to make sure I am doing my job - that is what you are paying me for.

I have had this conversation with a new manager and I basically told him if you question my work you better have cause to question it and be prepared for an arguement because I am an adult and I don't need babysitting.

Sounds like some people don't understand that the paycheck they receive comes with responsibility!

Wow.  Really?  Seems pretty bold to me.  Quite honestly if any of my employees said anything even remotely like that to me then I would help them look for a new job in 2 minutes flat... by giving them all the time they need... uh bye, bye.

You do realize that part of your manager's job is to ensure that you get your work done properly and on time, right?

I was always taught that a manager's job was to ensure that their people had the resources they needed to work effectively, to listen, and to deflect BS from above. It was extremely rare that I'd have to check someone's work unless they asked.

Absolutely all part of the job... but so is ensuring that the work is getting done properly and on time.  As a manager you don't want to find out that your staff is shirking their duties by having your manager come to you and say WTF why is this wrong (late, not done, whatever).  

I'm not saying babysit, I'm not saying micro manage, I'm not say doing their job for them,  I'm not saying going through every single TPS report with a fine tooth comb, I'm just saying checking up.  

2013-04-26 1:28 PM
in reply to: #4716410

Master
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200050010010025
Washington, DC Metro
Subject: RE: Micro managing
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 1:33 PM
Sous - 2013-04-26 12:19 PM
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 10:39 AM

BikerGrrrl - 2013-04-25 7:53 PM I guess I would view that as micro managing, but maybe I am missing some subtlety here. She was the sole recipient of these errata (come from publisher not me). I guess I have to ask more pointed questions like "how is your every day work going, do you have anything outstanding that you want to discuss?". I don't know... I am open to suggestion.

Yes this type of question would get me job searching in about 2 minutes flat - if I have a job to do no one should be required to follow up to make sure I am doing my job - that is what you are paying me for.

I have had this conversation with a new manager and I basically told him if you question my work you better have cause to question it and be prepared for an arguement because I am an adult and I don't need babysitting.

Sounds like some people don't understand that the paycheck they receive comes with responsibility!

Wow.  Really?  Seems pretty bold to me.  Quite honestly if any of my employees said anything even remotely like that to me then I would help them look for a new job in 2 minutes flat... by giving them all the time they need... uh bye, bye.

You do realize that part of your manager's job is to ensure that you get your work done properly and on time, right?

Nope my manager's job is to make sure to hire people that can do their job properly without babysitting - and that is what they did when they hired me. Fair enough and I agree, that is also part of the manager's job.

If you have people under you that cannot do their work without constant supervision did you ever think that they were a bad choice for the hire in the first place. No I don't and never really thought so.  But I also would never hire someone (regardless of who they are) and then never interact with them again as it seems you would suggest.

If I have questions I will ask - If I don't have any questions then the job will be done properly and on time.  When I fail to provide my work on time and properly then by all means provide all of the supervision you feel is necessary. So what your saying is wait for a problem to occur and then attempt to fix the problem rather than oversee the process in an attempt to prevent the problem from happening in the first place.

2013-04-26 2:12 PM
in reply to: #4716491

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2013-04-26 2:39 PM
in reply to: #4716485

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Subject: RE: Micro managing
Sous - 2013-04-26 2:23 PM
BrianRunsPhilly - 2013-04-26 1:39 PM
Sous - 2013-04-26 12:19 PM
wgraves7582 - 2013-04-26 10:39 AM

BikerGrrrl - 2013-04-25 7:53 PM I guess I would view that as micro managing, but maybe I am missing some subtlety here. She was the sole recipient of these errata (come from publisher not me). I guess I have to ask more pointed questions like "how is your every day work going, do you have anything outstanding that you want to discuss?". I don't know... I am open to suggestion.

Yes this type of question would get me job searching in about 2 minutes flat - if I have a job to do no one should be required to follow up to make sure I am doing my job - that is what you are paying me for.

I have had this conversation with a new manager and I basically told him if you question my work you better have cause to question it and be prepared for an arguement because I am an adult and I don't need babysitting.

Sounds like some people don't understand that the paycheck they receive comes with responsibility!

Wow.  Really?  Seems pretty bold to me.  Quite honestly if any of my employees said anything even remotely like that to me then I would help them look for a new job in 2 minutes flat... by giving them all the time they need... uh bye, bye.

You do realize that part of your manager's job is to ensure that you get your work done properly and on time, right?

I was always taught that a manager's job was to ensure that their people had the resources they needed to work effectively, to listen, and to deflect BS from above. It was extremely rare that I'd have to check someone's work unless they asked.

Absolutely all part of the job... but so is ensuring that the work is getting done properly and on time.  As a manager you don't want to find out that your staff is shirking their duties by having your manager come to you and say WTF why is this wrong (late, not done, whatever).  

I'm not saying babysit, I'm not saying micro manage, I'm not say doing their job for them,  I'm not saying going through every single TPS report with a fine tooth comb, I'm just saying checking up.  

Research, at least in industry, is a little different because you pretty much work in teams and people go through each others work as peer review. Plus you have group meetings and progress reports. Scientists are pretty self-motivated. I can only name one person in 21 years I had to talk to about getting work done. And in the end it wasn't me, it was HR who caught the brunt of that. Oh, and I caught the dud admin once when I changed organizations, but that was short-lived. You all know in big corporations that people don't get fired, they just get shuffled somewhere else, right?



2013-04-26 8:30 PM
in reply to: #4715290

Elite
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Subject: RE: Micro managing

The bottom line is that a manager is responsible for all work assigned to them. Managing their resouces and people is their responsibility. And how ever you want to label that, or to what degree of "micromanaging" you want to atach to it, does not change the fact that the buck stops with them for everything under them.

Ensuring their people are doing what is asked of them is called "doing their job", and is most certainly not micro managing. I am a pretty hands off manager. But just because I am not standing next to you holding your hand, or getting in your face over what you are doing, does not mean I am not dilligent about ensuring my direct reports are performing their duties in an acceptable timely manner. I can assure you I am. Some need more watching, one needs none. But I know that because I do my job and ensure they are doing theirs.

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