How's your child's science curriculum? I bet it's not as "creative" as this one! (Page 2)

I see you've selectively highlighted.  The key part of that sentence is someone who posts "inflammatory off-topic messages". COJ is a forum for all sorts of ideas and posts.  I suppose any subject can evoke an emotional response. I posted the quiz because it was "on my mind" (the COJ call) and I thought it would provide an interesting starting point for discussion.  Did you consider the "gun thread" a troll? 

The belief I was referring to, and it seemed you took issue with, was that real science should be taught to children. 

You can certainly state your belief more clearly, if you'd like.  The tone and subject matter of your original post certainly led me to think one way.  I'd be very willing--and happy--to admit I was wrong in my assumption.

Yeah but these "troll" posts are sometimes the most interesting ones on COJ, that invoke some of the coolest conversations. Plz "troll" away. love it. 

Tony, 1st of all, this thread doesn't resemble a trolling post to me.  We've seen a couple slip through over the last few months...I don't think this is even close.

Second, I bolded two lines from your post.  The 1st (as with most things in our world) science has disproven, 100%.  It is irrefutable. (then again, I have educated friends who refuse to believe in carbon dating...ya see, it blows a hole in everything they were taught as Creationists growing up)                   The 2nd scenario you put forth, well, I guess you have a point if one believes God, Gods, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster are magical beings that have designed the universe to behave in a manner that is scientifically consistent with what the scientific community has reached broad conclusions on.  So, do you really believe an Almighty Creator is really a powerful prankster?  Is He really just putting all the pieces in place to make scientists THINK evolution is real?  That Earth is about 4.3 billion years old and the Universe is about 13.7 billion years old?  

Tony in my opinion, if a physicist was able to prove these facts to be false, don't you think they'd be out there publishing their findings?  Don't you think there'd be a huge incentive to disprove these widely-held assumptions?  

lol, ok in hind site I guess COJ is a bit of a Troll haven in that context, so I may have to rescind my troll accusation. 

I don't disagree that real science should be taught to children, but I am also a big fan of keeping real science in the classrooms and keeping politically charged "scientists" out of the classroom.  Science and creation can coexist and I agree that wildly disproved claims such as the earth is 4000 years old doesn't help anyone.  I don't think it damages society because honestly if the earth is 500 years old or 500 Billion years old it isn't going to effect my week (or anyone elses) whatsoever.

My opinion is somewhat open to be honest.  As I mentioned I'm a strong Christian but my belief has nothing to do whatsoever with creation or evolution so it's somewhat irrelevant to me as a believer.  I do believe in general of Intelligent Design, but it's mostly because of the true biological diversity on the planet.  I think evolution can do a halfway decent job of describing the evolution of species of types of species, but when you get into the evolutionary splits of diverse aspects such as a blade of glass, a grasshopper, a bird, a whale, etc... there's so much diversity that I find it hard to believe it all just naturally evolved splitting off here and there based on the environment.  I also believe that science has struggled to find these types of splits as well, but they're trying.
My opinion probably sounds a little weird, but it is what it is. 

Admit it, you just like seeing me get spun up.

I'm not sure if I'd say 100%, maybe 99.999% because you have to leave the Spaghetti Monster option out there. 

My point was simply to refute the statement that "science is true whether or not you believe in it".  There have been hundreds of scientific "facts" that have been disproven over time.  I believe prior to the big bang theory that the scientific consensus was in Einsteins static universe theory, which was disproven with newer technology and research.
So, in essence, if the statement "science is true whether or not you believe in it" is correct then we should still live on a flat planet with the sun revolving around us. 

There are generally huge incentives on both sides of the scientific debate to prove a prior theory wrong.

Catholic school science teacher chiming in. I'll bet this school doesn't have accreditation.  We teach evolution, the religious part comes in because God puts in the soul. 

I couldn't get the youtube link to work:/ But I'm facepalming about your NWR field trip and instructor.   "You could leave with your family?" That is nice;) Full of, um, "values".  Jeez.

I know the Joy of Sect well:) Oh, Simpsons, how could I ever be mad at you?

Thank you for defending the "troll" claim. Honestly, I'm never really sure what is trollish and what isn't, especially in a catch-all forum like COJ. 

I didn't mean to be incendiary, but I do think it is crazy to teach kids things that are patently false, and it seems like a good thing to discuss with other adults.  When I heard this story it just blew me away that people really are teaching this to kids, and I thought others would be interested in the topic.

I appreciate your detailed response Tony.

I've highlighted this sentence because it really does matter.  It matters because it is teaching something that is absolutely incorrect--the subject matter is irrelevant. (This is why I used the math example earlier.) Allowing children to be taught things that are not true does everyone a disservice.

It may not impact your week, but there are thousands (millions?) of people who's daily work revolves around the accurate dating of the earth--astronomers, physicists, evolutionary biologists, archeologists, anthropologists, paleontologists, ahem, teachers, etc.  I can assure you, it does impact them.  One of the most interesting--and in my opinion, frightening--ways it currently impacts them is when creationist legislators get elected and pass laws or control funding for research. 

Did you not see the Flintstones?

Troll or not  this post did cause me to read further about what the stance of the Catholic Church (I am Catholic) currently is. Found this article interesting: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301848.htm

Does this mesh with what you are teaching?

It isn't going to affect my day to day activity if someone teaches holocaust denial but that doesn't mean it's right.  There's a concerted (political) effort to push back against science in the U.S.  Take science out of the equation like I did with my example just now, and somehow opinions tend to change.

All I can say is, if someone taught my son science as per that test? I'd be pulling him from that program. In forth grade he should be learning about the earth around him: matter, energy, weather, animal kingdoms, space in terms of what we already know. 

I don't mind if a kid's in a religious school and has some teaching in regards to "religious belief" but don't label that as proper 4th grade science. That's not going to prepare him for college success..

If one reads the original Genesis (or a literal translation) they would find that the earth existed before the Genesis. It was void and without form. But it was not nonexistent so the "7 days" would not include the creation of the Universe or the Earth. In John, the bible goes all the way back to the beginning, but again, doesn't touch on the creation of the earth. So even for a true Christian Right Winger, it's possible to agree that the earth is Billions of years old.

As for the questions, I'll ask, what is a Dinosaur? An Alligator, a giant tortoise, a Komodo Dragon, and a Shark are all called "living dinosaurs" because they existed in the fossil record alongside some of what we'd call "dinosaurs" in a remarkably similar state to their present state.

I also find it interesting that every society on earth has a "Dragon" somewhere in its mythology. China, in Northern Europe, Russia, the Aztecs, the Incas, etc. Is it impossible to assume that man and some "terrible lizards" fought it out?

I take the position, "what does it matter". The bible says 7 days, most people believe it took 3.7 Billion years, if everyone believed the 3.7 Billion years tomorrow, would it change your life today? I choose to believe God did make the universe and if he can do that, he can give the earth its present form in 7 days. But, what do I know, I wasn't there...

As for the comparison with 2+3=4, Switch, you can't compare absolutes with an argument of faith or a study of incomplete history. There is at present arguments among biologists that Dinosaurs were warm blooded, not cold blooded, that they are more avian, than reptile, and a host of other things. There is no argument about math. People argue historical events as soon as they happen (Iraq, Benghazi, Super Bowl 47). Math on the other hand, is an absolute. It transcends society and if anything, it is a further justification for those of us in the faith that there is a God who formed all things and gave order to the chaos.

I don't think denying the holocaust is anywhere near the same type of thing.  It's somebody attempting to incorrectly revise historical (not scientific) events for their own stated purpose.

I do concede there are people trying to push back on legitimate science in some areas, but I'll also state there are just as many or more people trying to use and exaggerate science for their own political agendas.  Neither are proper.

Matt,

Radiocarbon dating is an absolute.  We know how old the earth is.  We know how old dinosaurs are...and, no, we're not talking about "living dinosaurs"--we're talking T-Rex, baby.

I am not taking issue with anyone's faith; I am taking issue with what is being taught to children in a 4th grade science curriculum. 

Yes, it is impossible for me to assume that man fought it out with "terrible lizards".  There are snake-cover headed women and flying humans in certain faiths too--I don't believe in them either.

Let me first start off by saying I'd be more happy if my daughter failed that test than past it.

Second, I'd be interested to know if this private school is k-12 or just elementary school, and if it's k-12, how the kids do on the ACT/SAT, because ultimately the goal is to get to college, get a degree and be successful.  For all we know this school is teaching C##P, but is sending kids to the Ivy Leagues left and right (doubtful).

But hey if someone wants to send their child to this school, that is there choice.  There are plenty of bad public schools as well.

Chances are, if this is a K-12 school, the students aren't aspiring to go to MIT/Stanford/Harvard. 

ETA:  I changed schools this year from a hyper-Christian school to a Catholic school primarily because of this sort of curriculum.  At least my kid is young enough to have not been exposed to it.

As a story or a controversy it's not much of one...private school so that pretty much ends the discussion.

As a Christian I find this type of fear of science revolting, for several reasons. 1) It makes Christians look ridiculous, 2) It places God in a very small box, 3) It ignores the general revelation of God, those revelations about the condition of man and our relationship to the Creator not contained in the Bible.

  Science and Christianity and the Bible are not mutually exclusive.  I've "taught" at our church on the consistency of science and Christianity, and how an ancient earth view that is consistent with scientific knowledge is also totally consistent with the Bible and specifically Genesis. (Unfortunately, these lessons have not been met with great success.)  Oh well, We teach our child that the Bible and science are not mutually exclusive and that the more we know about the physical world and it's complexity the more proof of a God we have.

I don't think it's fair to prejudge the students based on what the curriculum is or based on parents sending their kids there.  There are many examples of kids doing great things from horrible schools (public and private).