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2006-07-19 9:01 AM
in reply to: #486826

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
run4yrlif - 2006-07-19 9:39 AM
rkreuser - 2006-07-19 9:32 AM

1) It's a relatively cheap way of buying votes on a visible, emotional subject

2) it allows the republicans to break the string of really solid press they've been getting lately by doing something benevolent for the oppressed, and

3) it corners the Democrats, as they'll likely have to agree with this (I'm surprised there wasn't baby-kissin' involved), so both sides can claim on the front page of the NYT that they're really non-partisan and cooperating smoothly at all levels of government.

They roll like that.

Ding ding ding ding...we have a winner! We were looking for "pandering", but we'll accept that. 

"Alex, What is PANDERING?" 



2006-07-19 9:30 AM
in reply to: #486034

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

France already got all of their citizens out - duel citizens and 'regular' frenchies- with plane tickets back to france for free, no questions.

 The US's ship is just bringing them to a port from what i understand and not actually back to the states.  how they get back to the states is their issues.

2006-07-19 4:48 PM
in reply to: #486919

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
TriVeggies - 2006-07-19 9:30 AM

France already got all of their citizens out - duel citizens and 'regular' frenchies- with plane tickets back to france for free, no questions.

 The US's ship is just bringing them to a port from what i understand and not actually back to the states.  how they get back to the states is their issues.

1. that is because that is the only way you could get people to go back to France it to let them come their for free.  Forgot the sarc font

 

2. Acutally the US has paid to have chartered planes bring the people back to Baltimore and from there, the people are responsible for getting to their final destination. So sounds like to me we (US) are going out of our way to help someone who took the risk of going to a country that the US advised not to anyway.



Edited by trigods 2006-07-19 4:56 PM
2006-07-19 6:27 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Master
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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee

I know I kinda missed the debate, but, I don't understand how people are fine spending 200 billion (or whatever the costs are) on a useless war in iraq, and 400 billion a year on defence spending but not 20 million (number pulled out of my a$$) to evacuate their citizens from a war zone. Should they have gone there to travel? Probably not, but society already pays for crappy mistakes people make (ex. health costs because people eat at McDonalds everyday).

 

2006-07-19 6:37 PM
in reply to: #487595

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
Global - 2006-07-19 4:27 PM

I know I kinda missed the debate, but, I don't understand how people are fine spending 200 billion (or whatever the costs are) on a useless war in iraq, and 400 billion a year on defence spending but not 20 million (number pulled out of my a$$) to evacuate their citizens from a war zone. Should they have gone there to travel? Probably not, but society already pays for crappy mistakes people make (ex. health costs because people eat at McDonalds everyday).

Well then, there ya go!  I just went on a scuba vacation, to a remote island with lots of sharks, in a foreign country.  Had I gotten injured shouldn't I also expect the US to pay for all my medical bills, getting back to the US, etc etc.  Then why did I buy dive and travel insurance?  What a schmuck I am!!!!

Personal responsibility is indeed dead (why can't one oppose war spending AND this issue?)



Edited by ChrisM 2006-07-19 6:39 PM
2006-07-19 7:13 PM
in reply to: #486919

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
TriVeggies - 2006-07-19 7:30 AM

France already got all of their citizens out - duel citizens and 'regular' frenchies- with plane tickets back to france for free, no questions.

 The US's ship is just bringing them to a port from what i understand and not actually back to the states.  how they get back to the states is their issues.

What was the total # of French people who were evacuated?



2006-07-19 7:47 PM
in reply to: #487624

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
crusevegas - 2006-07-19 8:13 PM
TriVeggies - 2006-07-19 7:30 AM

France already got all of their citizens out - duel citizens and 'regular' frenchies- with plane tickets back to france for free, no questions.

The US's ship is just bringing them to a port from what i understand and not actually back to the states. how they get back to the states is their issues.

What was the total # of French people who were evacuated?

According to CNN, 23000. 

2006-07-19 9:01 PM
in reply to: #487644

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
run4yrlif - 2006-07-19 8:47 PM
crusevegas - 2006-07-19 8:13 PM
TriVeggies - 2006-07-19 7:30 AM

France already got all of their citizens out - duel citizens and 'regular' frenchies- with plane tickets back to france for free, no questions.

The US's ship is just bringing them to a port from what i understand and not actually back to the states. how they get back to the states is their issues.

What was the total # of French people who were evacuated?

According to CNN, 23000. 

That's enough to riot after a world cup loss, or mount a futile defense when Lichtenstein invades from the north.  Lichtenstein's flag would be flying on the Arc...

I just can't get past the personal responsibility angle.  You move there, you're responsible. You're a citizen of the US, but if the government warns against doing something, and you ignore that advice (ostensibly) for personal benefit vs. the risk, then how could the government possibly be responsible for the costs and consequences of that decision?

2006-07-20 12:02 PM
in reply to: #486034

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Subject: RE: Americans: Pay to flee
I believe the UK is, as normal, sending in the warships to give all comers a jolly little ride on a big boat home totally free of charge. Although they are making sure everyone gets their passport stamped properly! This is the way it should be done. A country has a responsibility to its citizens that transcends money in the same way that thousands of Americans have died in an utterly pointless war in the Middle East, giving far more than they could ever have expected to be asked to give for a government that went to war on spurious and discredited evidence.

Judging by the way George W and Tony Blair seem to be screwing up the world there is no telling where the next hot spot will be. Israel, bless her little cotton socks, is in breach of more UN resolutions than any other country on earth (Iraq, Iran, Rwanda are all bit players). Their little excursions in foreign territory that take place almost daily, together with the illegal occupation of vast tracts of land in the area has always been overlooked presumably because of the collective guilt that the west felt after the second world war and the fact that so many of the leading politaical parties have close familial style relationships with Israel whereas the Lebonese/Syrians/Palestinians have never been as well networked. Hence the fact that when something likes this happens in the Middle East it escalates very quickly as there is no serious political restraint on the parties involved (no one will say no to Israel and the rest have nothing to lose by retaliating).

The penalty for this political cowardice is that any country's citizens can get caught up in violence that escaltes far quicker than one would expect. The French always act quickly as the vast majority of the cheese eating surrender monkeys have "retreat" stamped on their birth certificates, the Italians would have been out of there as the first bomb came into land, the Brits would have stayed around only long enough to see if there was anyone they could hit, the Americans would stay around long enough to realise that war like this is not related to MI:3 and the rest, frankly, will have to swim for it!

Interesting times we live in. I'm off to Dorset for a holiday next week. No oil, no dictators, no spurious need to liberate Dorset from an undemocratic rule so I should be safe.
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