Hydrogen Powered Cars!! Repercussion to Oil industry??? (Page 2)

Originally posted by cartman1966 Maybe they can finally release that engine that gets 100 mpg that the oil companies have been hiding .

Total fantasy. An ICE is an ICE is an ICE. we already put turbos on them to extract more energy. There is no free lunch anywhere. 

Relax people, just one more year.  Go Cubbies!

Disagree, depending on the cost of t he truck.   This truck/trailer combo could be around $100,000 more expensive than today's truck and still be economical.   (thats 'back-of-the-envelope' math.  Give me $50,000 and we'll call it even) 

20% improvement in Cd alone should be good for getting close to the 10mpg mark.   Add in some thermal efficiency improvers (like from my self-serving reference to this truck/engine combo) And you're over the 10mpg milestone.   Ditch the hybrid drivetrain, though.  It's great for P&D (pickup and delivery) routes, but a loser for highway.

Where this truck goes the EXTRA mile is in "freight efficiency."  The lighter trailer (TWO TONS!) allows for an almost 10% gain in payload that the truck can carry.  This means a carrier can move more goods for less fuel, increasing their margin significantly.  A carrier that can move 10% more freight for the same per-mile cost will be able/willing to spend more on a truck. I wonder how detailed the truck companies get in their financials.   Lemme see if I can dig through some 10-K (or whatever they call them) and make the math work out. 

And switch, as for algae-based biofuel... It has great PROMISE, but so far hasn't delivered.   We used to talk about it on tdiclub.com all the time. There was a fella over there from university of New Hampshire  (I think) that was sure it was going to take over the world.   That was 2002 or so.  Here we are 12 years later.  I still think it is likely to be a success at some point.   I just have no idea when that will be!   My guess is that getting the algae COMPLETELY out of the oil is a big deal.   Algae will grow in regular diesel fuel with just a little bit of water, and wreak HAVOC on a fuel system.   The "natural" oils also tend to have higher solidification temperatures, which makes them difficult to use as fuels in colder climates.  I haven't looked at the state-of-the-art in quite a while, so my guesses may be off-base. 

It's Walmart after all.  They don't want people to consume less :)

It does appear that they are planning on ordering some version of this truck.

From the Walmart website:

Our U.S. trucks log millions of miles every year, delivering products to thousands of locations across the country. So when it comes to sustainability and fleet efficiency, the goal is simple: deliver more while driving fewer miles. This goal is the driving principle behind our commitment to double fleet efficiency by 2015 (compared to 2005).  

Since 2007, we’ve delivered 658 million more cases while driving 298 million fewer miles.

I used to read a lot about biofuels (we have a Sprinter and have run it on 100% biodiesel at times), but I'm not really in the loop anymore.  Algae has a lot of things in the pro column, and they are certainly putting money into research on it.

I didn't know algae could grow in diesel--that would be a new kind of gelled fuel line;)

It ultimately boils down to total ROI compared to a standard rig.  You have higher cost of vehicle, higher cost of maintenance (guessing), potential shorter lifespan to balance against increased payload, increased efficiency etc.

It wouldn't surprise me to see walmart buy some to improve their "image" even if they weren't a good ROI.  To powermans point, if they're truly a money maker then we'll see thousands of them on the road in the next few years.  

Like all of these kinds of developments, they spend a lot of time to figure out what's POSSIBLE, so that they can also figure out what's PROBABLE.   Will you see this truck on the road anytime soon?  No.   Will you see elements from the design?  Yes.   

My initial rebuttal was just to powerman's categorical statement of "uneconomical"  because we don't have any idea of the price of the truck.   I suspect he's right, but unless we "do the math" we can't know.     In my experience, people miss these kinds of opportunities because they never "do the math." 

Elesa,  diesel users (especially diesel boat owners) in Flordia and other locations generally treat their fuel with algaecide just like we treat with "winter treatment" in the winter.   

We should be looking at more solutions to increasing "freight efficiency" as well as "fuel efficiency."    For instance, adding just a couple of thousand pounds to the GCVW limit (currently 80,000 lbs for most trucks) would make a big difference in the amount of fuel we are using to move things. Going from 80,000 lbs to 82,000 pounds would increase the amount of goods that trucks can carry by about 5%, (almost 40,000 pounds of the GCVW is usually the vehicle itself.) 

Of course, you have to look at how much increased wear/tear that 2000lbs is going to cost you everywhere else.   My guess is that from a money side, it's a winner, but from a PR side (OMG Trucks are already so DANGEROUS and we're going to make them even HEAVIER) it's a loser.

OK, I'm rambling.  I'm done!

Good luck with that.  

I actually agree with you in theory, but culturally it would be very difficult to get Americans outside of urban environments to carpool because the only way it really makes sense is to pack them into a urban environment which is counter to what they want.