Hobby Lobby claiming religious freedom and the ACA (Page 2)

Originally posted by Hook'em

My problem is with having a general rule that government may require us to act as it dictates and liberty, religious in this case, is at best an exception to that rule.

As an individual, I no longer have the freedom to contract for my own health coverage.  The coverage in my policy is dictated by the Federal government and if I want a policy that does not qualify under the ACA, then I have to pay a penalty.  If my objection is because of my religious view, I will in essence pay a religious liberty tax.   

Originally posted by Hook'em

My problem is with having a general rule that government may require us to act as it dictates and liberty, religious in this case, is at best an exception to that rule.

As an individual, I no longer have the freedom to contract for my own health coverage.  The coverage in my policy is dictated by the Federal government and if I want a policy that does not qualify under the ACA, then I have to pay a penalty.  If my objection is because of my religious view, I will in essence pay a religious liberty tax.   

Originally posted by dmiller5

No religion says you don't have to pay into health insurance. No one is making YOU take birth control.

Originally posted by dmiller5

No religion says you don't have to pay into health insurance. No one is making YOU take birth control.

Originally posted by mehaner

 

No religion says that, but ACA says he must carry a plan that meets certain requirements even if he doesn't agree with them, or be fined.

Originally posted by Hook'em

So take religion out of it all together.  I shouldn't have to pay a tax to exercise my own liberty to (or to not) enter into a contract

Originally posted by mehaner

 

like LB said - maybe men should stick out of it.  hormonal birth control is prescribed for MANY MANY reasons besides "sluttiness" which is insulting to every woman out there that has ever taken a pill.

Originally posted by powerman

Then by all means take care of it. Get together and start a fund.  

I have zero problems with contraceptives or hormonal therapy. I have zero problems with it being a medical issue, or a responsibility issue, or it being covered under plans. ZERO. All I'm curious of is why is that it is the only thing mandated at NO COST? I mean seriously.... antibiotics for children, pediatric care, emergency surgeries... why is it that out of all things health care... that has to be mandated at ZERO cost? Male contraceptives are not included. Why? 

Originally posted by mehaner

if you make claims against your health insurance, dmiller having health insurance IS doing something for you.  he spreads the risk and cash flow around, as does everyone else.

as for your comments about hormonal BC being for sick people - until you have had fibroids or dysmenorrhea - you have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Originally posted by powerman

Then by all means take care of it. Get together and start a fund.  

I have zero problems with contraceptives or hormonal therapy. I have zero problems with it being a medical issue, or a responsibility issue, or it being covered under plans. ZERO. All I'm curious of is why is that it is the only thing mandated at NO COST? I mean seriously.... antibiotics for children, pediatric care, emergency surgeries... why is it that out of all things health care... that has to be mandated at ZERO cost? Male contraceptives are not included. Why? 

Originally posted by Left Brain

Because we hate them?

Originally posted by switch

Nah, that insinuates that "sluttiness" is a bad thing, which still allows men to put a judgement on it. I don't even want to give them that  

Originally posted by chirunner134 "sluttiness" should be celebrated by men. I never understood why men would ever "slutshame".

Originally posted by mehaner

LOTS of things are mandated at no cost to the consumer under ACA - particularly if they are preventative things.

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-are-my-preventive-care-benefits/

Originally posted by dmiller5

because women are only sluts if they won't sleep with you.

Originally posted by dmiller5

hear hear

Originally posted by powerman

Thanks, I have been looking, but have not been able to find a list. And those would seem reasonable. All screenings, and immunizations.... oh ya, and contraceptives.... oh ya, and any contraceptives... not just hormonal therapy to to help medical issues. I find that odd. If there is more stuff on the list, I would be interested to see one. 

I'm sure this is only getting all the press. But this in particular breaches social issues... of which I have zero problems... but to tuck this into health care law... it's suspect for other reasons besides health.... unless they can show they take the same stance on all the other "health issues" that are important to everyone not just women and contraception. 

Originally posted by mehaner

insurance is all about assigning a $-value to risk, and someone much smarter than you or i did the math and decided that birth control is cheaper than pregnancy, birth, and unwanted children burdening an already loaded system.  there are no values taken into consideration, it is truly a massive math game.

Originally posted by switch

Quick little search shows that the average US prenatal visits and hospital delivery stay total $8800 on average--that's just to get baby and mom out of the hospital.  If a woman needs 30 years of birth control at $15/month or $180/year, that's $5400 for all of her childbearing years. 

I'm not an actuary, but it doesn't seem like it takes a ton of math to figure out that contraception is always going to be cheaper.

Originally posted by JoshR Ours was a lot more than $8800. That's why I'm getting snipped in a few weeks. That should be free under the ACA too right?

Originally posted by switch

 Quick little search shows that the average US prenatal visits and hospital delivery stay total $8800 on average--that's just to get baby and mom out of the hospital.  If a woman needs 30 years of birth control at $15/month or $180/year, that's $5400 for all of her childbearing years. 

I'm not an actuary, but it doesn't seem like it takes a ton of math to figure out that contraception is always going to be cheaper.

Originally posted by powerman

Those are co-pay amounts, not the actual cost of contraceptives. 

Just think how cheap healthcare would be if we sterilized everyone. 

It is a poor argument. If people want babies, they want babies. You are telling me that those that are on contraception never will have kids... no, they are going to be on contraceptives for 30 years, and have a couple babies in between. 

And you can do a risk assessment of unwanted kids, and the burdens unwanted pregnancies place on society... but you are completely ignoring the benefits of productive people entering the work force to pay for them and the productivity they provide.... not to mention not every unwanted pregnancy grows up to be a train wreck and a burden. Not by a long shot. You have to look at all of it, not just the parts that make a particular point. 

Originally posted by JoshR Ours was a lot more than $8800. That's why I'm getting snipped in a few weeks. That should be free under the ACA too right?

Originally posted by JoshR 

 Ours was a lot more than $8800. That's why I'm getting snipped in a few weeks. That should be free under the ACA too right?

Originally posted by dmiller5

The only snipping we cover in that region is circumcision. because god said so.