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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by spudone Yeah, an I won't see a tax break for not growing wheat. So have children and you can get them educated for free! Well, free to you. Education at the expense of tax payers. OK, let me do some math.... 72 million kids under the age of 18. So lets say 13/18ths are in school (taking out kids under 5) = 52 million. Taxpayer expense: 536 billion (2004 - 2005 school year) 536 billion dollars / 52 million children = $10,306 dollars for every single school aged kid. We can do better. Private schools can do better. They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above? Betcha I will never see a cash voucher or a tax break for *not* having kids. :P I went to a private high school. Tuition there today is approaching $15,000/year. It's a first class high school education with a nearly 100% graduation rate and over 95% go on to receive college degrees. I don't know if your figure of $10,306 is correct or not, but there is no doubt that we can do better with public schooling. The problem with private schooling is that most people cannot afford 10-15,000 per year to educate their children, hence the public schools funded by all taxpayers. As I said above, we all have a stake in educating our children, and so we all have a stake in maintaining good public schools. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here. It's not like public schools are something new and they somehow can't work.....of course they can. We have generation after generation of people who are testament to that. What killed public schools in the inner cities was forced busing, well intentioned as it may have been. The schools, and then the neighborhoods, of kids who were bussed away deteriorated to where we are today. If we really want to make our cities viable again we have to go back and fix that mistake. It's NOT a matter of giving people something for nothing.....it IS the business of making this country great again. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by spudone Yeah, an I won't see a tax break for not growing wheat. So have children and you can get them educated for free! Well, free to you. Education at the expense of tax payers. OK, let me do some math.... 72 million kids under the age of 18. So lets say 13/18ths are in school (taking out kids under 5) = 52 million. Taxpayer expense: 536 billion (2004 - 2005 school year) 536 billion dollars / 52 million children = $10,306 dollars for every single school aged kid. We can do better. Private schools can do better. They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above? Betcha I will never see a cash voucher or a tax break for *not* having kids. :P really? that actually doesn't seem that expensive My daughter went to two different private schools from grades 1-8, and neither of them was close to that per year. She's in Catholic high school now (which has disassociated itself with the Diocese and doesn't have a parish, so there's no additional money coming from those sources), which is a little higher than that figure but she gets an outstanding education. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by spudone Yeah, an I won't see a tax break for not growing wheat. So have children and you can get them educated for free! Well, free to you. Education at the expense of tax payers. OK, let me do some math.... 72 million kids under the age of 18. So lets say 13/18ths are in school (taking out kids under 5) = 52 million. Taxpayer expense: 536 billion (2004 - 2005 school year) 536 billion dollars / 52 million children = $10,306 dollars for every single school aged kid. We can do better. Private schools can do better. They absolutely should reduce their taxes if the government is not paying to educate their children! I wish every child could go to a private school.....not just rich people's kids. Did anyone actually read the Jindal article I posted above? Betcha I will never see a cash voucher or a tax break for *not* having kids. :P I went to a private high school. Tuition there today is approaching $15,000/year. It's a first class high school education with a nearly 100% graduation rate and over 95% go on to receive college degrees. I don't know if your figure of $10,306 is correct or not, but there is no doubt that we can do better with public schooling. The problem with private schooling is that most people cannot afford 10-15,000 per year to educate their children, hence the public schools funded by all taxpayers. As I said above, we all have a stake in educating our children, and so we all have a stake in maintaining good public schools. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here. It's not like public schools are something new and they somehow can't work.....of course they can. We have generation after generation of people who are testament to that. What killed public schools in the inner cities was forced busing, well intentioned as it may have been. The schools, and then the neighborhoods, of kids who were bussed away deteriorated to where we are today. If we really want to make our cities viable again we have to go back and fix that mistake. It's NOT a matter of giving people something for nothing.....it IS the business of making this country great again. As someone who went through this as a kid, I 100% agree. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Does anyone find the irony in that our thread about education is misspelled? |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by goforit Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. It has been my experience that stability in homes is tied to stability of income and neighborhoods. There can be no doubt that there are too many broken homes in poor neighborhoods.....but you can't fix that without education and good jobs. You can get education and good jobs without decent schools and neighborhoods........see my above post. I never said throw more money at inner city schools. I said rebuild the neighborhood schools. You want to see infrastructure projects to create jobs? START RIGHT THERE! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Absolutely right....getting a voucher will not allow your kid to go to private school.....there is still tuition. Vouchers are for people who can already afford private school.....any other explanation is a lie. We MUST resurrect the public schools in our inner cities. Every change we would all like to see starts with education. Education starts with good schools. Good schools leads to pride in neighborhoods, pride in neighborhoods leads to good property values. Good property values leads to companies willing to invest in those neighborhoods. That investment leads to decent jobs for the newly educated. Decent jobs leads to more stable families and props up those neighborhoods even further. THIS has been the story of the middle class since this country reached it's heyday. Make America Great Again? I agree. Don't send me some rich gal who doesn't know chit about what it takes to make great neighborhoods and great schools. She never had to build chit and, judging from the answers she gave during her confirmation hearing, doesn't have a clue how to. This is a bad appointment....from either side of the isle. Money won.....period. I'm slow today, but agree with this ^^^ 100%. Education is the basis of every change we want to see. I think that this is why a lot of people are so upset about this particular appointment. And back to a point Rogillio made earlier, I get the idea of giving these jobs to folks who are astute business people who aren't insiders, and can make a difference by applying some serious problem solving to a broken system. But if you watched the hearing, De Vos is NOT an astute businesswoman. She's not even all that smart. And that's my problem. You don't give a job to someone who has no experience, and no redeeming qualities to make up for lack of said experience. If you gave this job to Warren Buffet or Bill Gates or Rex Tillerson, I'd probably feel like they had the smarts to figure something out. De Vos? Nah. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Does anyone find the irony in that our thread about education is misspelled? My bad. I'm the product of publick skools. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by goforit Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. It has been my experience that stability in homes is tied to stability of income and neighborhoods. There can be no doubt that there are too many broken homes in poor neighborhoods.....but you can't fix that without education and good jobs. You can get education and good jobs without decent schools and neighborhoods........see my above post. I never said throw more money at inner city schools. I said rebuild the neighborhood schools. You want to see infrastructure projects to create jobs? START RIGHT THERE! "...got a wife and kids I Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride and I never went back." I used to like that song without ever thinking about the words till one day my wife said she hated that song. I asked her why and she pointed out that lyric. Totally ruined that song for me. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-... Not to say that children of single parents can't get an education but the odds of finishing school are much higher among 2 parent households. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/02/25/report-marks-growing-... My point is the collapse of the family is the root cause of the education system failure. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain "...got a wife and kids I Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride and I never went back." I used to like that song without ever thinking about the words till one day my wife said she hated that song. I asked her why and she pointed out that lyric. Totally ruined that song for me. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-... Not to say that children of single parents can't get an education but the odds of finishing school are much higher among 2 parent households. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/02/25/report-marks-growing-... My point is the collapse of the family is the root cause of the education system failure. Originally posted by goforit Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. It has been my experience that stability in homes is tied to stability of income and neighborhoods. There can be no doubt that there are too many broken homes in poor neighborhoods.....but you can't fix that without education and good jobs. You can get education and good jobs without decent schools and neighborhoods........see my above post. I never said throw more money at inner city schools. I said rebuild the neighborhood schools. You want to see infrastructure projects to create jobs? START RIGHT THERE! My experience tells me that you have it exactly backwards. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain "...got a wife and kids I Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride and I never went back." I used to like that song without ever thinking about the words till one day my wife said she hated that song. I asked her why and she pointed out that lyric. Totally ruined that song for me. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-... Not to say that children of single parents can't get an education but the odds of finishing school are much higher among 2 parent households. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/02/25/report-marks-growing-... My point is the collapse of the family is the root cause of the education system failure. Originally posted by goforit Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. It has been my experience that stability in homes is tied to stability of income and neighborhoods. There can be no doubt that there are too many broken homes in poor neighborhoods.....but you can't fix that without education and good jobs. You can get education and good jobs without decent schools and neighborhoods........see my above post. I never said throw more money at inner city schools. I said rebuild the neighborhood schools. You want to see infrastructure projects to create jobs? START RIGHT THERE! My experience tells me that you have it exactly backwards. I hope you are just trying to be funny? Shirley you don't think that a poor education results in the collapse of the family? Seriously, it's not even funny. The school system cannot make up for the absence of a parent. No amount of money will 'fix' that. You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own statistics. Do some research. My wife went to school in a one-room school house in western NE until HS when they went to school in town. So did her two sisters. Her older sister graduated HS valedictorian and her younger sister graduated salutatorian. All 3 girls finished at least 4 years of college. They came from a strong family with two parents who cared about them getting an education! Poor farmers but that didn't stop them from getting an education! Edited by Rogillio 2017-02-08 12:33 PM |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain I hope you are just trying to be funny? Shirley you don't think that a poor education results in the collapse of the family? Seriously, it not even funny. The school system cannot make up for the absence of a parent. No amount of money will 'fix' that. You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own statistics. Do some research. My wife went to school in a one-room school house in western NE until HS when they went to school in town. So did her two sisters. Her older sister graduated HS valedictorian and her younger sister graduated salutatorian. All 3 girls finished at least 4 years of college. They came from a strong family with two parents who cared about them getting an education! Poor farmers but that didn't stop them from getting an education! Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain "...got a wife and kids I Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride and I never went back." I used to like that song without ever thinking about the words till one day my wife said she hated that song. I asked her why and she pointed out that lyric. Totally ruined that song for me. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-... Not to say that children of single parents can't get an education but the odds of finishing school are much higher among 2 parent households. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/02/25/report-marks-growing-... My point is the collapse of the family is the root cause of the education system failure. Originally posted by goforit Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. It has been my experience that stability in homes is tied to stability of income and neighborhoods. There can be no doubt that there are too many broken homes in poor neighborhoods.....but you can't fix that without education and good jobs. You can get education and good jobs without decent schools and neighborhoods........see my above post. I never said throw more money at inner city schools. I said rebuild the neighborhood schools. You want to see infrastructure projects to create jobs? START RIGHT THERE! My experience tells me that you have it exactly backwards. Did you read what I wrote about busing? There's nothing made up there, it's history. I'm talking specifically about inner city neighborhoods, families, and schools......poor people. Not people who can send their kids to private schools and now want vouchers to lower their tax debt to public schools. You're going to have to pay attention, because the family structure in poor, inner city neighborhoods has NOTHING to do with any experience your wife or her sisters had. Lack of education has an absolute affect on the breakdown of the family in inner cities. I can take you to neighborhoods here that are absolute war zones......they got that way when High Schools like Soldan, Beaumont, Sumner, and others in the Public High league (the most feared athletic conference in the state and the source of unbridled neighborhood pride) closed their doors as forced integration and busing made them obsolete. Businesses and jobs followed. Property values plummeted. Families scattered and broke up. I policed some of those neighborhoods for the last 30 years and watched it.....I don't need to read a book about it or see statistics from people trying to spread the blame. Fixing those neighborhoods and the families that live there requires that good neighborhood schools be resurrected....that's step one. Without that you have "war zones"......pay attention!! This didn't happen overnight. Edited by Left Brain 2017-02-08 12:38 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain I hope you are just trying to be funny? Shirley you don't think that a poor education results in the collapse of the family? Seriously, it not even funny. The school system cannot make up for the absence of a parent. No amount of money will 'fix' that. You can have your own opinions but you can't have your own statistics. Do some research. My wife went to school in a one-room school house in western NE until HS when they went to school in town. So did her two sisters. Her older sister graduated HS valedictorian and her younger sister graduated salutatorian. All 3 girls finished at least 4 years of college. They came from a strong family with two parents who cared about them getting an education! Poor farmers but that didn't stop them from getting an education! Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain "...got a wife and kids I Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride and I never went back." I used to like that song without ever thinking about the words till one day my wife said she hated that song. I asked her why and she pointed out that lyric. Totally ruined that song for me. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/29/don-... Not to say that children of single parents can't get an education but the odds of finishing school are much higher among 2 parent households. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/02/25/report-marks-growing-... My point is the collapse of the family is the root cause of the education system failure. Originally posted by goforit Throwing more and more $ at the public school system hasn't helped a bit (see DC). LB, it doesn't matter what you throw at inner city schools (or ANY school for that matter ), if the homes, that these children come from are broken. Maybe we should try to fix that first. ?. It has been my experience that stability in homes is tied to stability of income and neighborhoods. There can be no doubt that there are too many broken homes in poor neighborhoods.....but you can't fix that without education and good jobs. You can get education and good jobs without decent schools and neighborhoods........see my above post. I never said throw more money at inner city schools. I said rebuild the neighborhood schools. You want to see infrastructure projects to create jobs? START RIGHT THERE! My experience tells me that you have it exactly backwards. Did you read what I wrote about busing? There's nothing made up there, it's history. I'm talking specifically about inner city neighborhoods, families, and schools......poor people. Not people who can send their kids to private schools and now want vouchers to lower their tax debt to public schools. You're going to have to pay attention, because the family structure in poor, inner city neighborhoods has NOTHING to do with any experience your wife or her sisters had. Lack of education has an absolute affect on the breakdown of the family in inner cities. I can take you to neighborhoods here that are absolute war zones......they got that way when High Schools like Soldan, Beaumont, Sumner, and others in the Public High league (the most feared athletic conference in the state and the source of unbridled neighborhood pride) closed their doors as forced integration and busing made them obsolete. Businesses and jobs followed. Property values plummeted. Families scattered and broke up. I policed some of those neighborhoods for the last 30 years and watched it.....I don't need to read a book about it or see statistics from people trying to spread the blame. Sorry but correlation does NOT equal causation. Yes bussing was bad for inner cities. I agree. But that does not mean that because you got an F in English your daddy is going to leave your mother. There are plenty of inner city families whose kids do well in school and go on to get good jobs. Your personal observation are valid but your conclusion are not backed up by statistics. Look at the statistics showing correlation between graduation rate and the number of parents at home. The correlation is undeniable and irrefutable. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Sorry but correlation does NOT equal causation. Yes bussing was bad for inner cities. I agree. But that does not mean that because you got an F in English your daddy is going to leave your mother. There are plenty of inner city families whose kids do well in school and go on to get good jobs. Your personal observation are valid but your conclusion are not backed up by statistics. Look at the statistics showing correlation between graduation rate and the number of parents at home. The correlation is undeniable and irrefutable. No, getting an F in English doesn't make your father leave your mother. But lack of education means you can't get a job, you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, you can't escape the neighborhood you live in. And when you grow up in a place where there's no education, no hope for escape, you resort to violence and stay in a circle of poverty. The same guy who shoots someone and ends up in jail while his baby momma struggles on welfare to feed her kids could presumably have had a better chance with a quality education. |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. I think that's wrong. I think it's more correct to say they have never been taught the value of education. We are now a couple of generations removed from decent inner city schools. Many of the children there are never taught how valuable education really is. If you don't have that, there is nothing to "value". And then you have to have jobs that require that education in order for it to be valuable......but the jobs won't come back until the neighborhoods do....and the neighborhoods won't without the schools. This cannot be fixed in a generation.....it will have to be a process...and it may be too late for all I know. Edited by Left Brain 2017-02-08 1:42 PM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. Agree 100%. If your parent(s) does/do not value education, you will not value education either. Blaming your lack of education on the economy in you neighborhood is like claiming the wind blows because the trees move back and forth. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. Agree 100%. If your parent(s) does/do not value education, you will not value education either. Blaming your lack of education on the economy in you neighborhood is like claiming the wind blows because the trees move back and forth. Again you have it backwards......the lack of economy is BECAUSE of the lack of education. I'm going to do this for you one more time...... education = good schools = good neighborhoods = attractive to businesses = jobs from the new businesses = employable/educated workforce = stable families There are no shortcuts. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. I think that's wrong. I think it's more correct to say they have never been taught the value of education. We are now a couple of generations removed from decent inner city schools. Many of the children there are never taught how valuable education really is. If you don't have that, there is nothing to "value". And then you have to have jobs that require that education in order for it to be valuable......but the jobs won't come back until the neighborhoods do....and the neighborhoods won't without the schools. This cannot be fixed in a generation.....it will have to be a process...and it may be too late for all I know. Do be so pessimistic! "There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be fixed by what is right with America!" - Bill Clinton, the Hall of Presidents, Magic Kingdom, Disneyworld, FL. If we allow the parents that do care with the mean$ to send their children to a private school to get an education then maybe they will come back to their cities and rebuild them. Gonna take a generation or two but I think it starts with opportunity. If you are poor and go to a crappy inner city school you should be given a chance to go to a private school of your choosing and take the money the government would have spent on you to pay for your private school. Not all private school cost $15k a year. In fact, if you implement the voucher system and gave students $10k a year there will be private schools open up all over town! They will more than happy to educate your child for $10k/year! Figure a class of 20 brings in $200,000 a year. Just 50 classes and you are at $10 million/year. Let capitalism educate America!! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. Agree 100%. If your parent(s) does/do not value education, you will not value education either. Blaming your lack of education on the economy in you neighborhood is like claiming the wind blows because the trees move back and forth. Again you have it backwards......the lack of economy is BECAUSE of the lack of education. I'm going to do this for you one more time...... education = good schools = good neighborhoods = attractive to businesses = jobs from the new businesses = employable/educated workforce = stable families There are no shortcuts. The bad economy came from us losing millions of jobs to China! Cities that used to provide good manufacturing jobs are now slums. The factories closing had nothing to do with educations! The mines closing down had nothing to do with educations. I work with an engineer who grew up in KY the son of a miner. He took a bath in a #3 wash tub until his senior year of HS when they go indoor plumbing. But he got an education and is very successful. Being poor does not stop you from getting an education. Not having a job does not stop your kids from getting an education. decline in the number of 2 parent families => increase rate of dropping out of school That is just a fact. Facts and data man. Facts and data. (Graph.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Graph.jpg (207KB - 1 downloads) |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain The bad economy came from us losing millions of jobs to China! Cities that used to provide good manufacturing jobs are now slums. The factories closing had nothing to do with educations! The mines closing down had nothing to do with educations. I work with an engineer who grew up in KY the son of a miner. He took a bath in a #3 wash tub until his senior year of HS when they go indoor plumbing. But he got an education and is very successful. Being poor does not stop you from getting an education. Not having a job does not stop your kids from getting an education. decline in the number of 2 parent families => increase rate of dropping out of school That is just a fact. Facts and data man. Facts and data. Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. Agree 100%. If your parent(s) does/do not value education, you will not value education either. Blaming your lack of education on the economy in you neighborhood is like claiming the wind blows because the trees move back and forth. Again you have it backwards......the lack of economy is BECAUSE of the lack of education. I'm going to do this for you one more time...... education = good schools = good neighborhoods = attractive to businesses = jobs from the new businesses = employable/educated workforce = stable families There are no shortcuts. Again, you have it completely backwards and can't even see why. LOL |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by Left Brain The bad economy came from us losing millions of jobs to China! Cities that used to provide good manufacturing jobs are now slums. The factories closing had nothing to do with educations! The mines closing down had nothing to do with educations. I work with an engineer who grew up in KY the son of a miner. He took a bath in a #3 wash tub until his senior year of HS when they go indoor plumbing. But he got an education and is very successful. Being poor does not stop you from getting an education. Not having a job does not stop your kids from getting an education. decline in the number of 2 parent families => increase rate of dropping out of school That is just a fact. Facts and data man. Facts and data. Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by goforit You are assuming this group of people (kids/pparents ) VALUE education. I haven't seen that. Yes this anecdotal, but so is LBs experience (s). If they don't value education, it doesn't matter what you build or how you get them their. So how do you get them to value education? It starts at home. Agree 100%. If your parent(s) does/do not value education, you will not value education either. Blaming your lack of education on the economy in you neighborhood is like claiming the wind blows because the trees move back and forth. Again you have it backwards......the lack of economy is BECAUSE of the lack of education. I'm going to do this for you one more time...... education = good schools = good neighborhoods = attractive to businesses = jobs from the new businesses = employable/educated workforce = stable families There are no shortcuts. Again, you have it completely backwards and can't even see why. LOL Which part of those graphs do you not understand or believe? Or do you think that this data is merely 'coincidental' to your theory that a the decline in education is the result of a bad economy? BTW, the per capita income in China is $1,400 compared to the US at $30,000. China is ranked #1 in math, science and reading....the US is ranked 17th. Just not following your correlation between education and the economy. You have no data to back up your theory either. But it's a good theory.....;-) |
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New user![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I like and appreciate your input LB. You are one of my all time favorites on BT, but i think you are off on this one. Either way, i hope OUR education system improves. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by goforit I like and appreciate your input LB. You are one of my all time favorites on BT, but i think you are off on this one. Either way, i hope OUR education system improves. Yeah, I know it's off the party line....I get it. The thing is, I've spent a great deal of time around very poor people struggling to get by. I want them to have the same opportunities we all have......and I know that it doesn't always work out that way. I'll settle for really good schools for their children because I think it would make all the difference in their lives. All we do now is throw money at the problem....and it's been a dismal failure because it doesn't provide real opportunity to change what has become a cultural norm in the inner cities.. How about we put some real resources and talent into educating the kids of this generation. In the end, we are going to pay either way.....how do you want to pay? You want to build more prisons or more schools? We can't have the two parent homes that Rogllio wants if half of that household is locked up or dead. Education is the key to almost everything. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by goforit I like and appreciate your input LB. You are one of my all time favorites on BT, but i think you are off on this one. Either way, i hope OUR education system improves. Yeah, I know it's off the party line....I get it. The thing is, I've spent a great deal of time around very poor people struggling to get by. I want them to have the same opportunities we all have......and I know that it doesn't always work out that way. I'll settle for really good schools for their children because I think it would make all the difference in their lives. All we do now is throw money at the problem....and it's been a dismal failure because it doesn't provide real opportunity to change what has become a cultural norm in the inner cities.. How about we put some real resources and talent into educating the kids of this generation. In the end, we are going to pay either way.....how do you want to pay? You want to build more prisons or more schools? We can't have the two parent homes that Rogllio wants if half of that household is locked up or dead. Education is the key to almost everything. I totally agree with this. There are a lot of problems/ logistics that go hand in hand with the broken families that make it harder. I run a fairly big PTO fundraiser for my daughter's STEM charter. (We have a 6 figure PTO budget). I decided to reach out to our local title 1 school to see if any of the things we were doing I could help them incorporate. I learned a lot. Most of the things we do are not going to work for them and have been unsuccessfully tried in the past. We did come up with two ideas to try (publicizing their restaurant fundraisers to our population- we have been known to have lines wrapping around the block at ours and a book drive where we have families donate lightly used books so we can try and send kids home with a few books of their own for the summer). It was a lot harder than what we do. They said transportation is a huge block to doing more. I also sat on a school district advisory committee and heard that attendance is a huge issue especially in the month of December as many travel to visit relatives. Single parent families have less flexibility. The school is actually making huge strides though. They have a big robotics program and are doing a huge college awareness push. Every classroom and the doors are decked out with stuff from the teacher's alma matter. I was actually really impressed with what they had going on. They were building a community and culture of possibilities and you could feel the energy. That said they were doing it with a few volunteers from local churches (vs our school where every family has to volunteer 30 hours a year and a lot volunteer much more. We also have a lot of parents that are engineers and scientists that partake in special events- you don't walk the hall without seeing multiple parents helping in various ways). We are lucky that our district has been trying really hard to create a great environment for all students. We have schools that have been nationally recognized for their achievement with a challenging demographic profile. This is the community I want to live in. One where we work together to overcome challenges for all. |
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