Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! (Page 20)

Around where Kathleen and I live (the front range of Colorado) we have to be ready for everything.  The Denver area is consider "the flat land", but it butts up against the mountains of course.  So if you head north, south or west for a ride you end up with either flat rides or rolling hills.  If you head west... you get rides like the pictures I posted.  Around here people (at least the groups I ride with) have a masochistic love of going west and straight up a mountain (typically because they are training for rides like "Ride the Rockies", "The Triple Bypass", etc that all have a number of mountain passes you need to climb).

The cassette choice was/is always a difficult decision for me, but having that larger cog in the rear is a huge benefit to the terrain we have.  Even if you're comfortable spinning out your highest gear on the long descents we have after you just climbed them and hitting 40+mph we're all unlikely to spend any real time in 53:11.  I suggest a leaning towards a 12-27 for Shimano or a 12-28 for Campy.

With that said... I rode all last year with a triple.  I was hit by a car, totaled the bike, and decided on a compact with 11-25 on my new one.  I had a year of getting stronger with that triple, but found I was no longer using the lowest gear except for in the extremes like 12-15% grades.  I had started going with the "leave a bailout gear just in case" philosophy during training, but started to rarely ever use that last gear.

I had also learned from a friend that there were different crank arm lengths that factor into how hard/easy a gear is to pedal.  I knew I could swap the gears, but had no idea I had a choice on crankarm length!  It was something I never even considered.  So I opted for a slightly longer crankarm than what I had before to give myself more leverage to compensate a little for losing those lower gears.  So to me, it never felt I really lost anything on the low end because of 3 things: a year of training, having mentally stopped allowing myself to use the lowest available gear, and the longer crankarm.

So, although I think a 27 or 28 is a huge benefit, I decided not to have one.  If I ever do an IM like St. George, I'll reconsider.  But, I'll continue to train without it because I believe it makes me a strong cyclist.  However, If I had found I couldn't spin the 34:25 at a 90rpm up a 5% grade I'd have added a 27 to the training arsenal in a heartbeat.

Sounds like some great workouts.

But your comment makes me wonder if I get those weird looks sometimes too.  I occasionally will go out on my own little 20-30mile time trial as a training ride with my aerohelmet on.  Obviously, like any new toy, when I first bought it I took it out on my next ride.  Perhaps it's just me, but after that first ride I felt I needed to train with it occasionally because it feels different on my neck than my regular helmet.  Does anyone else feel they need different muscles to hold their head in position with their aerohelmet on?  Or am I alone on that one?

I just purchased a 13-29 for IMLP and and going to be trying it out at Wildflower. I will prob put it on my bike tonight and see how i like it. I have previously been using a 12-23...and i really am NOT strong at hills.  I think the extra gearing will make a huge difference for me bc i "run out" of gears quite a bit.

I agree with the fact it feels different on my neck. I try and hold my head at a dif angle...since you can easily feel which angle has the least wind resistance. So i can see how it would use new/different muscles

Just a general caution - it is VERY tempting to trash your legs attacking a hill early on in a race.  Your legs are fresh and it will feel good to fly up the hill... and everyone else will be too.  In my opinion, on a course like that with a hill that early, you're not pacing yourself correctly unless you're getting passed quite a bit.  An exception might be an unusually strong clyclist/climber, but for most of us we should hold back and remember we've got a long way to go and we'll need our legs for the rest of the run and ride.  Bottom line - you'll pass most of those people back, and then some, on the rest of the ride and especially on the run.  Nuthin worse than having a great first lap of a bike course, a terrible second lap, and then a death march run.

This is something I am going to pound into my head for IMLP.  Don't attack early when so many other people do.  Let 200 people go by on the bike.  Pass 500 on the run.

Agreed, it's very easy to get caught up in the moment with a course layout like this.  For those curious: http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/co/boulder/518483644

You're right on pacing is key to all triathlons.  But I'd still rather have it in the first 7 miles than in the last.  At least if you do over extend on the hill you have time to spin and let your legs recover before attempting to run.

Do you run Campy or does Shimano make a cassette like that too?

One thing to watch out for with the bigger rear gears is the rear derailer itself.  I think the standard rear derailers are designed to support up to a 27 in the back.  I think I am pushing it a little with my 28 but if you get much larger it might be an issue.  There is a design difference in the rear derailers that tend to support larger rear gears.  They tend to have a longer lower arm, you will tend to see them on bikes which have a triple front set-up. 

It might not be a problem as mine works fine with the 28, just something to keep your eye on.

Yeah thanks for the heads up. I am a bit nervous that shifting to the 29t will be hard if even possible. I will let you all know if/how it works.

I run a campy 10 speed. there seems to be a lot more sizing options in shimano though.

And i am not happy that i have to use a 13t instead of a 12t. My next option would either be compact crank or building my own custom cassette. i really need to look into the gear ratios i could obtain from using a compact and a 12-25/26 vs a standard with this new casette

Nice job on the workouts, keep it up!

I'm a big fan of the compact crank.  Unless you can push alot of watts, a 53-39 really isn't a great option (maybe if you live in Florida) .  The fact is you don't lose alot on the top end (3 cogs) and you gain alot on the bottom end (5 cogs). 

A 50x34 is alot more efficient as well; there isn't alot of crossing of speeds on the compact as there is on a standard (i.e. a 53x23 is the same speed as a 39x16).

If you use the gear calculator a 53x11 spins 90rpm at 34.8 mph and a 50x11 at 32.9. 

http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/

I don't fault anyone for using a 53x39 but I just think most cyclists don't have the power to really take advantage off all the gears.

This user's post has been ignored.

This user's post has been ignored.

This user's post has been ignored.

This user's post has been ignored.

Good discussion guys!  I zone out with the bike talk, but I'm trying to learn from what you all are saying... I'm trying to take in the "don't be a first loop hero".  That's going to be SO important for me for Lake Placid.  I should make that my blog title!

p.s. I loved the pics of Colorado. Man, I miss it! I tried getting into the University of Colorado-Denver for my PhD because husband and I would love all the training opportunities! 

I love taper week. I had a big bowl of guacamole tonight. Is that part of taper week? I still might go swim tonight and do at least a mile.

A lot of the time it just takes hearing it over and over again to learn about it all.  Definitely don't feel funny asking a question about anything you're not clear on.  We all started in the same boat with this stuff and remember not understanding what the difference an 11T  vs 12T cog makes.

Some basics:
the T stands for "tooth", if you ever don't know what you have, you can just count the teeth looking things that stick up that the chain grabs on the cog on your cassette in the rear.  More teeth = larger cog = lower gear = easier gear.

low(er) gear = you spin the pedals fast and you still go slow.  You use a low gears to get up mountains... much like if you have a 4wheel drive car... you'll have 4wheel High and 4wheel Low... if you put it in 4wheel High you can still go fast, but in 4wheel Low the engine will be rev'ing and you'll still be going slow, like if you're out off-roading trying to get up a steep climb ;-) )

Basically: The closer you get your front sprocket tooth count to match the rear cog tooth count the lower the gear you are in.  So if you were in the big sprocket up front (50 teeth for instance) and you were in the big cog in the back (25 teeth for instance) you have 50/25 = 2.. so for every rotation of your pedal, your tire rotates 2 times.  But if you were in the 50 up front and an 11 in the rear, 50/11 = ~4.55, every rotation of your pedals would mean your tire rotated 4.55 times.  When you're going fast, if you don't want to have to pedal faster to go faster you would need to make that equation larger... 50/23 = 2.17, 50/21 = 2.38... etc.  Now for each rotation of the pedal that rear wheel spins faster making you go faster.  But obviously we also want it to be easier to pedal sometimes.  So you have two choices... Option 1 which you do all the time: get out of the big ring up front and go to the smaller one... 34 tooth on the compact doubles... so now you have 34/25 = 1.36.  Option 2, combined with option 1: go to the small chain ring up front AND make that rear cog bigger (like what we've been talking about... give yourself a 27 instead of just a 25)  34/27 = 1.26 

That same tooth division is the same on motorcycles... except they have it where the rear cog is bigger than the front.  My motorcycle has a 14 up front and a 48 in the rear (I'm making those up, but I believe they are pretty close to being true).  14/48 = 0.29.  But that's because my motorcycle engine can "pedal" at 8000+ rpm and if you had a 50/25, my rear wheel would be spinning 16,000 times per minute instead of 2320 times/minute... I'd be dead before I knew it what happened   We as humans can't do 8000rpm... we like the 90rpm a little more, so we need more help.


Hope some of that helps... I'm an engineer, so I hope it didn't sound too technical or "mathy".  But you can do some simple math and find out a mathematical number to judge how big of a difference going from a 25 to a 27 or going to a 29 like dharris13.  Then compare that number to the difference you feel changing from your 23 to 25... How much does 34/25 = 1.36 vs 34/27 = 1.26, a 0.1, difference make?  Quite a bit.

^^^^^That is a great description, thanks! I'm beginning to learn more about gearing and that is the clearest explanation I've seen so far of how it works.

I did get my a$$ off the couch tonight and went and swam. Guacamole is good swim fuel.

Thanks!  I printed the free plan yesterday, and started on Week 19's Tuesday.  I'll have to be creative with getting some swimming in, since our town pool only has adult swims a couple times a week, but I'll make it happen.

I agree, that was helpful.  Thanks!

From what I am reading here, it sounds like a compact crank on a tri bike is the best way to go. Is that correct? 

Definitely a good explanation on gearing!  It just makes me want to start counting teeth and doing math   I have no idea what kind of gears I have right now, except that the shifters are on the handle bars (like a mountain bike - grip shift), which drives me crazy.  I'm on my 3rd year with a $200 used road bike from Canadian Tire that I bought to make sure I actually liked this stuff.  Each year, I've added to my tri gear, and I'm hoping that next year is the bike year!