Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 20)

Dina congrats on the great swim session today. That is great to hear that you can still improve after being at it for as long as you have been swimming and it goes to show everyone how tough it is to make even the smallest gains in swimming. It also gives me hope that I can improve. That is the fustrating thing about swimming you make big gains early then it seems like you'll never get any better. I'm learning it takes ALOT of patience and persistence to get better.

X2 very impressive numbers Jeff! You set the bar high for the rest of us.

Dina your anything but that and I don't feel like a slacker after this evening's bike workout. Man just when you think you got the hang of Jorge's workouts he comes up with something worse. I think I blacked out during the 15x30's maybe around 7 or 8. All I know was that I had to work hard and I was glad to be done with that workout tonight.

Exactly, Early on when I started training to race triathlon all the intervals were new to me and I made a lot of gains. After the bike fall and all the back pain things went downhill and I really thought that is where they would stay. Just me hanging on for as little loss as possible from year to year. You know, I'm not getting any younger .

I am planning to start the Jorge bike program on Monday and figured I should get some numbers for a good starting point.  Completed a FTP test to see where I was, not sure what all the numbers mean but at the end it stated my new FTP was 233.  Best part was when the ride was over, I stepped off the trainer and just about hit the floor.  Legs were week and I could barely stand!  I had to grab the wall to keep from hitting the floor.  I guess that means I pushed hard enough!   Below is a screen shot of the workout.

Congrats Dina and Karl! Today seems to be a lucky swim day for the group. Like you guys, I had my small breakthrough at the pool today too. Finally got the hang of breathing (i think!) and for the first time in a month, I felt like I was relaxed and gliding through the water. I was basically playing around with this catch-up drill with the kick board to try and simulate the breathing motion and when I did that long enough and then tried it without the kickboard, it all suddenly clicked! Such a relief when I kinda felt that I could come up to take a breath without worrying too much. I still can only breathe on one side and I tried to breathe either every 2 strokes or 4 depending on how I felt during that lap. So still a long way to go, but happy that something clicked. I have my swim lessons starting next week, excited about it now.

Nice work here Matt.  I can't exactly read the power for the 20 min interval.  What did you get?  Also, on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being hardest, what would you say your MENTAL effort was over the last 5 minutes of the 20 minute test?

I just started the winter cycling plan this week as well.  I just finished the surgery yesterday so I'm told absolutely no difficult exercise until Sunday or Monday at the earliest....so looks like I'll be spinning on the bike for a couple hours this weekend at 140 watts. :-)

Jeff, that was an interesting discovery with respect to your heart rate.  I often experiment with how my heart rate reacts to different things.  For example, if I really focus on my running form and using my larger leg muscles to run, my cadence goes down, and my heart rate goes up (at the same speed).  If I focus on a longer inhale, my heart rate goes up....longer exhale and my heart rate goes down.  Now....this was not done on a treadmill so my data could be approaching inconclusive and even useless...but it breaks up the run thinking about this stuff.

Karl, her name is Luca...which we found out is an Italian/Roman boy's name meaning "bringer of light".  I love the translation in English, but it's hilarious because 1.  Neither of us are Italian..not even the slightest and 2.  She's obviously not a boy.  

    By the way...congrats on the swimming milestone.  Very cool dude.

This is awesome.  A kickboard can be an invaluable tool when first learning to breathe.  I used to try to just connect all the dots at once and it NEVER worked for me.  Sometimes you just have to pick one small thing and work on it at a time.  And I mean...one thing per workout.

Dina, congrats on the swim!!!

Jeff and all the people here, ya'll are all "studs"  awesome mileage!

Tony, you a slackard...are you kidding!!!  lol

Matt, congrats on the Jorge's w/o.  How are your legs this morning...lol

Bhargav, congrats on the swim. 

I watched a video someone suggested on the "Triathlon Talk" page and the guy said it takes 2 years to become a mediocre swimmer and that is with swimming 3 X per week with 2 of the 3 sessions lasting 90 minutes.  he said he has been swimming 40+ years and he still struggles.

I rode the trainer last night and it is very different standing up on it vs standing up while riding.  There is a learning curve..lol

Matt this makes me think I did not complete my test with my best effort. My legs did not feel that stressed after I got off the bike at all. In fact I did my usual short run and my legs felt fine. My issue was heart rate and breathing. I was practically gasping for air and my HR was up to 180 for an extended period of time.

Sounds like you did great to me. My FTP is only 176!

Matt nice work on the testing ride. If you felt like you were gonna die at the end of the test and it sounds like that is pretty much how you felt then you did it right. Good luck with starting the plan next week I am well into week 5 and I am noticing some improvement already. The plan isn't easy but it will payoff for you come spring time.

Bhargav congrats on the breakthrough with your breathing. I think that is the hardest thing to get comfortable with but once you do things start to come together a little quicker. Good luck next week with the swim lessons sounds like you are going to do just fine with them.

Karl I would have to agree with that in reagards to swimming. It takes YEARS of doing it to become good at it. I think I have tendency to get down on myself for not swimming well but the reality of it is that it takes a lot of time, effort, practice and persistence to get better at it. I've changed my approach and have a much more positive attitude towards swimming now because I know I have not been doing it that long and I have come realize that swimming is just freakin HARD LOL!

Thanks all! Btw, I watched this video too (?Gerry Rodrigues - Tower 26) and found it very interesting - would recommend it to the group. He clearly does not agree with several points that Terry Laughlin and the TI folks seem to talk about. I started learning to swim watching the TI videos and don't know enough to really have a strong view for/against but I thought Gerry's point about staying tall/upright/stiff and about not swimming on your sides was interesting.

Luca Brasi, a great Godfather character!  With a not so great ending, but that won't be her story.

I absolutely concur on picking one (or at most two) things to works on at a time while swimming.  I know people say there's no connection between swimming and golf, but I think there is one important similarity.  Both are a complex string of many events, but in the end it's supposed to be a rhythmical movement to be most efficient.  We work on each individual part of the swim stroke, like the golf swing, but in the end it's a cyclical stroke, not a bunch of disconnected events done one after the other.  If we try to do many things at once, it becomes very hard to get anything resembling rhythm.

In terms of swimming and getting better/faster, I get frustrated watching my buddy who effortlessly warms up with 1:15 hundreds without looking like he's even putting in any effort.  We talk about it, and he reminds me as a national level college swimmer he was swimming more PER WEEK than I swam all last year, and he did that for many, many years!  So we all need to be patient and accept our **not so** little victories.

I'm really sorry to hear about your quality problems.  I love the fact that Pontiac came out with that rear wheel drive LS2 powered car.  Must be nice and fast!

Matt, is there any way to pick out some numbers from during just the 20 minutes you were going hard?

I can't tell what your HR and your cadence were doing during your FTP test.

But good job on the power number.  That seems to be pretty good! 

mambos - 2013-01-04 10:56 AM

JeffY - 2013-01-04 10:21 AM

Matt, is there any way to pick out some numbers from during just the 20 minutes you were going hard?

I can't tell what your HR and your cadence were doing during your FTP test.

But good job on the power number.  That seems to be pretty good! 

I should be able to get some averages, I will check when I get home tonight! But from memory I believe the HR average was around 165ish and the cadence was high 80's. The average power was around 240ish! Jonathan I would rate the mental effort around a 7-8 for the last 5 minutes! If you notice there is a bump in the yellow power line, this was where I thought I could push a little more but that didn't last! My legs were screaming and I had to pull back a little! on this I may need to try the test again to confirm the numbers! A buddy questioned the numbers and made me wonder if it was accurate! I used the same set-up as previous rides but I guess the tension was at the minimum! The set-up calls for 2-5 turns after the tire makes contact. I gave it 2 full turns plus a little more to where the wheel wasn't slipping and stopped. His thought is that it should be at least 3 turns, but that would have compressed the tire fairly far! I use a Kurt road machine and the tire is specific from Kurt so it's a pretty hard tire! Any thoughts on how much this would affect the numbers? My buddy used the same program and is a stronger rider and only had a FTP of 218! Maybe I just don't understand the numbers enough to make that comparison! Either way it was a great workout that I am still feeling today

Matt, I did some small research on FTP's and how to use that data some time back. The conclusion seemed to be that FTP varies a lot depending on a) power meter vs kurt kinetic power curve (virtual power); b) Tire pressure and the number of turns; c) Your pre test-fitness and what you did the previous day/what you ate etc; d) What kind of ventilation you have indoors when comparing tests and also whether this is indoors or outdoors.

My takeaway from all that was you want to use FTP as a metric to measure your fitness over time rather than comparing versus others. And to do those tests under as similar circumstances as possible say 4-6 weeks down the road.

Matt, the critical thing for using this type of estimated/derived power number is that your setup is consistent.  Then the power number may not be 100% "accurate", but it is useful to you to set your effort levels and to compare future tests.

There can be a HUGE discrepancy based on how you are setup - air pressure, tire pressure against the drum, etc.  As long as your setup stays very consistent, then the numbers are accurate relative to each other day to day; that' what you are after.  It is very difficult to compare power numbers with other people, even with the same equipment.

The other thing to consider is that your ability to pace the 20 minutes will improve, as will your ability to endure the pain as well as maintain the focus the more times you do such a test.

I will echo what Bhargav and Warren just said.  If you want to chase consistency with your friend's setup so you can compare numbers then you two will have to synchronize your setups.  If you do that, then you will want to settle on THAT particular setup for future tests.

For what it's worth, your cadence is low.  What type of fatigue was your limiter during that test?  Was it the legs?  Was it aerobic capacity?  When you mention your legs almost giving out afterwards that led me to believe that you might have been using too low of a cadence.

Imagine getting off your bike after that and having to run!  If you can increase your cadence, you can decrease your resistance while generating the same power.  Then your legs can still be fresh when you begin to run.  But forgetting triathlon for a moment, that's still the fastest way to ride a bike too.

I got to ride a computrainer once in Erg mode.  That's where you program in a set wattage and no matter how fast or slow you pedal, the computrainer keeps adjusting the resistance to keep you at the specified wattage.  I found it was easiest at 110 rpm!  At that leg speed there was very little perceived resistance on the crank.

Now increasing your RPMs that much won't be something you can just do all at once.  You will need to work towards higher RPMs over time.  But you should be able to hit 5rpm more on your next ride and over time keep increasing it a little at a time.  I honestly spin at 95 rpm when riding in a spirited manner and it doesn't feel fast, but I remember when I started cycling back in the old days I was doing about 60rpm and my cycling buddies were giving me grief over it..

When you repeat the test, or as you experiment during your trainer sessions see what happens if you do the same amount of work but with more rpm and less resistance.