Yanti and Lynn, Mentors of the Manatee Melee: FULL (Page 21)

YOUR LIFE SUCKS!!! HOW CAN YOU PUT UP WITH SUCH STRESS, CHAOS AND UGLINESS?!!! HOLD ON, MAMMA MANATEE, I'M ON MY WAY TO RESCUE YOU AND TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE STINGRAYS AND NEON COLORED FiShIeS!!! 

(Translation:  I'M SICK OF RAIN, RAIN, RAIN, CLOUDS, OVERCAST WEATHER AND TORNADOOOS. I'M A TROPICAL 'AYLAND GIRL--YA' MAN. What's wrong with this tragedy????!!!!)

{{{{{{{{{COCONUT PRESSES}}}}}}}}} from the Caribbean 'AYLAND GIRL trapped in the Midwest!!!

Ailan, ya mon. I be doncing reggae tonight to wee hours.

So ... here's me enjoying the sunset, and the sunset.

I will say, though, how is it I run away to nowhere and still high adventure and party piglets seem to have followed me there???

Yes, "Chrissie," I seriously need some coconut-press rescuing. I can't stand it here. Where's my hammock, fresh pineapple juice, and parrot fish? Oh ... just outside my bungalow door?

(gili029.sunset0 (Small).jpg)

(gili026.beachboobs.jpg)

WOW!!! Beautiful pics Yantee!!!

And thanks to you ladies for making me giggle.  Not only do I get to learn from all of you on this forum ... but I get the pleasure of many laughs along the way! 

Thank you Manatees!!

Been away for business and will be away again for a while with the Escape, Vacation, Business travel.  I saw the rebuttal and thought I'd follow-up regarding reason for recommendations.  I believe Yanti is right in her comments, but I would make the same recommendaitons again.  YANTI is the one who has more background in making the recommendations based on her experience in this type of forum and ability to analyze your logs.  I assume, incorrectly some times, that everyone needs to know their own situations and what they are comfortable with - don't trust blindly and don't do something that is dangerous / beyond your skill. 

Anyway - to the discussions:  I think single leg drills are a great way to improve pedal efficiency, if not one of the best ways.  Just logging miles won't work any more than swimming laps with bad form.  Miles will get you faster as you get more aerobic / in shape, but you will be missing opportunities to make quick improvements by improving form.  I found single leg drills were  better when starting out (I did more then and started shortly after getting my first clipless pedals) than I do now, but I still do them once in a while as a quick check and balance.  You don't want to do it excessively because it can hurt your knees, but it is a very effective method to make sure you are pedaling in circles, not squares.

I agree cadence is individual thing, and I believe it is fact that higher cadence is more aerobic Vs lower being more power/strenght.  My intent is to suggest / recommend that an athlete not switch from an individual strenght (running high cacence and aerobic) to something not such a strenght (more power, low cadence).  I continually vary my cadence and I no longer target specific values - if suffering, go higher / lower and see if things improve.  Might be I'm just going too hard, but also might be I'm are not at an optimum performance cadence.  NOTE:  Very high cadence (over 100) will also help pedal efficiency since it is hard to have bad form at very high cacence - you usually start to bounce in the seat). 

I've had a coach tell me to mimic my cycling cacence on my run and vice versa - I admit I can't.  It even gets harder when I get tired, but it was a recommendation none the less.

Max heart rate (if using a monitor) is useless by itself - agree.  I also understand that it varies based on many factors, so although it is a good guide for the average individual, there are limitations.  The poor attempt at the suggestion was to indicate that many people have diferent "work out zones" based on the activity they are doing.  I've suffered miserably on the bike while targeting a heart rate I established by running.  For me, things improved once I knew what my different targets were.

Lastly - The handlebar comment is a suggestion to open her hip angle up a little.  Studies (and personal experience) have shown that individuals that get into an agressive aero position before their body is trained well for that posiiton may loose power.  The same studies are inconclusive regarding the power gains Vs the loss in aerodynamics; however, the take away is that if you are having trouble in an aero position, come up some.  You may be surprised by an increase in average speed.  Train there for a while and then start lowering back to a more agressive position as your body gets more use to an agressive position.

I do encourage discussion like this since I think it helps.  I think everyone has stuff that they think works and others not so much.  I think we should feel free to not only ask for insight, but if you see something that you're not sure about - question it / challeng it.  Also don't try something beyond your abilities (don't go on a 2 mile open water swim - which will definately help your swim endurance - if you have to stop every 100 yards in the pool).

EVERYONE HAVE A WONDERFUL HOLIDAY WEEKEND!!!!

Yanti - Happy belated birthday and have a wonderful trip.

Actually, in the specific case of cycling, my recommendations are based not on my experience, nor my experience in the forums, but on nearly four years of direct review (as a paid professional) of the scientific literature. I was an editor (which included fact-checking) for Spinning(R) the company, as well as the Spinning(R) coach for the Spinning(R) staff at the World Headquarters. Considering that people like Coach Troy (all of whose work is still copyrighted to Spinning(R) ) and Joe Friel write, teach, and consult for Spinning(R), and it was my job to evaluate their methods and information, I had to know pretty much all the formal research, publication and coaching information available regarding cycling training.

This comes as a shock to most average endurance athletes, as it did to the folks at Spinning(R), who had developed an entire course on Pedal Stroke Drills, but ...

There is *no* evidence that working on pedaling form in cycling improves performance. And there is an enormous amount of evidence to the contrary, including a ten-year study involving cyclists, one group of which consistently worked on pedal stroke as part of training and racing, and the other of which didn't. Adjusting for other factors such as the amount of training done, the result was that ... the control group performed better in nearly all aspects. The time the test group spent using equipment and techniques said to benefit pedal stroke and therefore cycling efficiency would have been much better spent just riding more.

There was also an interesting study done on amputees who continued to cycle. Not much like an amputation to screw up your pedaling form (for one thing, one leg pedals completely differently than the other, and the prosthetic leg can pretty much only push down on the pedal; it's useless for the other parts of the pedal stroke). Allowing for adaptation time, these cyclists were able to achieve the exact same amount of power transference (a measure of cycling efficiency) as before.

IF there were any evidence indicating that working on cycling form (particularly through pedal stroke drills) was superior to enhancing performance than simply riding more, I would be open to it, although I would not change my mind unless such evidence accumulated to the point of outweighing that for riding more.

This is the #1 best piece of advice anyone could ever give with respect to endurance training.

Know thyself, don't trust blindly, and act accordingly. NOTHING trumps this.

Also (just to throw in a caveat to all of what I said above), just because the weight of the evidence swings a certain way for most people does not mean it will be true for you. Refer back to know yourself.

The easier it is to pedal, the easier it is to pedal. In endurance sports, it is the level of effort that governs the ratio of lipids to sugars that the body is using for fuel. If someone finds it easier to pedal at a certain cadence (whether higher or lower than X), the body will use a higher proportion of lipids for fuel.

That all sounds good to me.

I'd be very interested in WHY this was a recommendation--what's the goal, and the evidence that matching these cadences will achieve the goal?

Max heart rate (the maximum number of beats one's heart can reach in a minute) is genetically determined, and the only factor changing it is age. I don't see how it would be a good guide, nor to what, for the average individual?

Lactate threshold heart rate may be what you're referring to, and it is a completely different metric. It does indeed vary based on many factors, and yes, you will have a different LTHR for cycling and running.

To me, the take away would be that if you're having trouble in aero, or in any riding position for that matter, you need a better bike fit.

100% agree on all of the above.

Hey Peeps!  Been MIA for awhile with kiddos illnesses and some life issues in general.  So, I'm probably going to be easing off of tri-specific training for a couple months.  I'm starting the Body for Life program up again on Monday.  I did this back in my early 20's with great results.  I really want to get some of this weight off, and gain some muscle strength.  I'll probably be fitting in some swims, bikes, and definitely runs in there somewhere, but I don't think I'll be ready for the Tri I was thinking about in July, so I'm just going to hold off for the one in November.  But I'll definitely be checking in here, and logging my workouts still -- and encouraging everyone else! 

Crystal... I am doing my first tri in July. I have never done one and I am at least ( AT LEAST) 50 lbs over weight. I just keep pluggin along and feel like if I finish it that is the acomplishment and it worked to get my butt off the couch for the last 6 months.

I keep telling people I am a "completer" not a competer. If your life is crazy I get that, But you are amazing and can do amazing things. Hang in there.

Wow Yanti, those pictures are incredible. I want to be there too.

I just got back from a camping trip, where it was thunder & lightening warnings every night. Not complaining... I had a great time with my family, but that Sunset does look amazing. MMmm a girl can dream...

Adrienne..... Can you share some of that marathon itching..... It could get me through my training. The rush is on..... 60 days to race day.

I have been falling off the training wagon and am feeling it today after a swim lesson and a spin class.

I keep checking in here for inspiration. Thanks manatees you keep me going.

Holy Wow! Nice Nice Nice!! AG placement in your very 1st TRI-you're amazing! I bet you can't wait for the next one. If you nail your swim and tighten up your transitions-you'll win the next one!!

Congrats!

Deleriousxix, WAY TO GO ROCKIN' YOUR FIRST TRIATHLON!!!!!!!!

My first OWS was a cluster f%$# as well.  I seriously thought I wasn't going to make it.  So congrats on making it through you OWS.  Awesome bike and a kickin' run!!

Congrats on the AG award too!!!!! 

deliriousxix - 2011-05-31 11:51 PM Hi guys!! I'm ALIVE and I finished my first triathlon!! Haha I Did really well.. But I definitely have room for improvement. I actually ended up getting second in my AG and fourth place out of females in my division!!

That calls for a MANATEE SUPERSTAR BIKE CHAIN CONGRATS

for our CHAMPION TRIATHLETE!!!!!

Especially taking 1st on the bike in THOSE conditions? And your first triathlon, and hardware? WOOOOOHOOOOOO

Getting your butt off the couch, mathematically, means that you are doing infinitely more than if you are on the couch

I was 60 lbs OVER the Athena category, not just overweight, when I did my 2nd marathon (maybe even my 3rd).

But I did it.

deliriousxix - 2011-05-31 10:51 AM Hi guys!! I'm ALIVE and I finished my first triathlon!! Haha I Did really well.. But I definitely have room for improvement. I actually ended up getting second in my AG and fourth place out of females in my division!! So that was exciting. I really can not wait for my next one. It was such a thrill!! I couldn't sleep well the night before.. Probably got like 5 hrs. Then, in the morning I burnt my toast and so I barely ate lol. Got to the race a little early to make sure I had plenty of time to set up my transition area. Afterward I watched The other waves swim and chatted up some people. This race was enormous.. I was shocked/intimidated, but everybody was so nice and encouraging. The swim start was in deep water so I had to tread for a little bit.. And I felt like my wave was HUGE. Is it normal to have 85 girls in a wave?? I kind of panicked because I wanted to make sure I was in the back, but apparently that was everybody's strategy. When the gun went off I waited a couple seconds and then started swimming. I ended up in the hell storm anyways bc I caught up to it. It was awful.. Kicking pushing elbowing.. I was so panicked. I spent probably 2/3 of the swim on my back bc I was so freaked out. I'm definitely going to have to practice this. My transitions were slow, even though I ran through all of them! This is going to take practice also. Did well on the bike for the conditions. It was 20mph+ winds with gusts. People were falling all over the place! It was sad. I averaged 15.8mph though, 8th overall and 1st in my ag. Getting into the run was pretty tough.. My first mile was probably slow.. But I really picked it up my last two. Sprinted the last two hundred meters and passed a girl in the last second! Haha it was a great feeling Bottom line: I LOVED it.. It was amazing!!!! Everybody was so nice and it was so exciting! Theres something about the atmosphere that just makes you want to lift everybody up around you. It really is so cool. I haven't figured out what my next one will be.. But I'm going to try todo one in June!!

Woo Hoo!!!! Way to go! So happy you had a great first expedrience.

Too bad the marathon itch doesn't spread like other itching, eh? Hahaha 

But I will attempt to share my running itch if someone will give me some swimming itch(errr swimmers itch?)! I have to drrrraaaaaag myself to the pool. Maybe it will be better when it's warm enough to open water swim.

Anyway, after a lot of thought I decided to skip out on the marathon at the end of June and just train really hard for the Seattle Marathon in November. I was in denial at first but I have come to terms with the fact I know I don't have the self control to not go hard. Also some information I withheld is that I will be doing a 200 mile bike ride 2 weeks after the June Mary and a century ride two weeks after that . Overexerting myself in a marathon I am not really trained for would probably not be ideal...I may do the half marathon though, I know I could do that no problem.

Yanti, your pictures are beautiful!!!! Oh and your knowledge is priceless. I really enjoy reading your posts; Even if I don't always have time to respond. 

don't forget, I'm the idiot who said "go ahead, do the marathon"

nice going, sitting on that important 'extra' information, LOL ... yep yep, reminds me of me.

You're an outstanding runner and deserve to give yourself the best chance of doing well and having a good first mary experience in November.

We have at least three Manatees racing this weekend--let us know if you are, too!!! (if I missed someone)

GOOD LUCK

JOHN (mackjenn)   HOLLY (hollz)   GRACE (GraceVanOwen)   TEDDIE (kussmaul)

deliriousxix - 2011-06-03 12:00 PM Hi everybody, Hope you all are having a great friiiday! Somebody sent this to me this morning and I figured it'd be a good little bike pick-me-up for my fellow manatees hahah! Enjoy http://www.break.com/index/kid-gives-speech-after-learning-to-ride-a-bike-2065802

That is super cute.  LOL, "thumbs up everybody..."