Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--CLOSED (Page 21)

Swim help??? Did a swim clinic on Saturday that included some video. Things don't look too bad. However, the one glaring issue appears to be that when I enter the water with my hand at the front of the stroke I don't fully extend. You can see a bend in the elbow. Also, my hand tends to glide upwards causing the elbow to drop below the hand. The hand also points upward a bit "putting the brakes on." So, now I know of the problem....how do I fix it? Any specific drills? Would using something like the Finis Fulcrum help?  Went to the pool today and tried to work on it but shockingly 30-40 minutes of work didn't fix it.   Need some magic from the swim gurus. Thanks    

Hello Tri Friends!

From the looks of the posts, you are all busy!

Life is finally coming together after quite the hiatus these past few weeks.  Our family returned from vacation right after New Years and I was hit with the flu, recovered and then right after fell in my driveway from the ice...really hurt my left ankle.  Every year I take a several week break from training for mental and physical rest and it was these past few weeks instead of November/December like usual.

A few changes in my plans for tris this year - I have scrapped the potential 70.3 in Boise (my heart is just not there) . My lady friends are still committed and thankfully I plan to jump in and train with them but I won't have the pressure of the race.  I do plan a few running races and I may jump into some Olympics that look fun. 

This weekend I had my first work-outs since Christmas/New Years.   Swam for about 30 minutes on Saturday and did an hour bike/trainer and 30 minute trot on Sunday.   My friend I trotted with does a walk one minute - run one minute so my ankle tolerated it just fine with no major issues after.  The bike didn't hurt except at the end when I tried to unclip when twisting to release.

I am somewhat excited to be back training... Nothing like a weekend of activity to remind yourself why you need the rest, but 6+ weeks off takes a toll on fitness and it will be a few weeks before I can keep up with the ladies again.  

Weather here is crazy - we have no snow and had 67 degrees this weekend.  We were all wishing we could ride outside.   As my daughter says this is the calm before the storm for weather in our neck of the woods.  But, we are enjoying the warmer temps while we have them.

Happy training all!

Great run Kris!  You set a goal and then nailed it!  Who among us hasn't gone out too fast in a race and paid for it near the end - call it a rite of passage.

Great job!

Hey Randy,

Yeah, what you described can be a bit of a problem.  Your hand not going to extension at the top of the stroke shortens the stroke, you imply that you end up with a shallow entry so with your hand high in the water, your first movement at the catch is going to be down instead of back making the top of your stroke inefficient.  You don't mention where your hands/arms are during the pull/push phase but I suspect they are a bit shallow which would cause you to not be engaging your core as well as you could, meaning your giving up some power through your stroke.

So, a couple questions:

Do you happen to have a copy of the video?

Absent a copy of the video, what does your recovery look like and how is your body rotation?

I ask because a proper entry is reliant upon a proper recovery.  Full extension at the top of the stroke is reliant upon proper body rotation.  Admittedly, I have not seen you swim at this point, but it sounds to me like your recovery is a bit flat with your hands arcing out to the side somewhat.  That does two things a) it creates a low angle entry making it difficult to get your hand to the proper depth prior to the catch making it really easy to flip your hand up, and b) it hampers body rotation, which makes it difficult to get your hand/arm to full extension.

In answer to your question, no, I don't think the Finis Fulcrum will help.  The Fulcrum helps establish a high elbow catch/pull.  Your problem is before that.  I also don't think artificial tools help in the long run.  If you recovery is correct, you are in the perfect position for a proper entry, if your entry is correct, you are in the perfect position for a proper catch, if you catch is correct, you are in position for a high elbow pull/push.

I suggest you do maybe 4 x 25 of the fingertip drag drill before the next couple of workouts.

Fingertip Drag Drill: To promote a high elbow recovery and to make you aware of your hand position during recovery.

• Swum like regular freestyle, except your fingertips never leave the water as your arm moves forward during the stroke recovery.
• You drag 1/2 an inch of your fingers forward through the water, slightly off to the side of your body, focusing on good body roll and keeping your elbows pointed up.
• Proper hand position during recovery is generally turned in towards your body, setting you up for proper entry.

Let's talk about a single arm for a moment.  Say your right arm.  At entry, your shoulders will be pretty close to level.  As your right hand (fingers), then wrist, then elbow enters the water, your right shoulder will follow as your body rotation completes the entry and allows you to reach full extension.  Think of reaching for the bottom part of the far wall.  Full extension means reaching as far forward as you can in a natural way with a very slight bend still in your elbow.  I am going to go back for a second.  I said your hand (fingers), then wrist, then elbow enters.  Your entry angle should be at least steep enough so that you can distinctly tell when your fingers, wrist and elbow enter - or at least you should distinctly see it on video.  If they are all splashing into the water at the same time, your entry is too shallow.  A good little catch phrase is:  "Fingers below wrist below elbow - ALWAYS!"  There is no part of your stroke where that phrase will not be true.  Entry, catch, pull, recovery, the phrase is true at every centimeter of the freestyle stroke.

Of course this is all somewhat speculation as I haven't seen you swim.  If you have a copy of the video we can drill down and fine tune things.

Sorry Brenda, I',m gonna let the cat out of the bag!

Deb, it is really easy to highlight text, simply left click/hold and drag across the text you want to highlight, then go up to the top, if you hover over the 'A; on the right, it will say "Background Color."  (See the screen shot below).  Select the down-arrow, choose a color and there you have it, highlighted text.  With the text highlighted, you can also change font size, font type, bold italic, etc.

Have fun!

(screenshot.jpg)

Haha, SCOTT K.  You beat me to it and did a much better job with adding the screen shot.  Now everyone can be all colorful if they want! 

Glad that your wife was able to come home today, SCOTT I.  I'll have to look up deep vein thrombosis as I've never heard of that before.  Hope she rests well at home and gets back to 100%

Totally agree with just letting go of the workouts that didn't happen DEB.  I'm confident, based on your fitness, that you'll do great in the HM without getting in a full 13 miles trained at once.   Taper well.  Did you tell us when the race is and I missed it? 

Kris - congrats on your race!  2:30 is what I'm shooting for in May but will actually be happy with anything under 2:42 (my current PR).  Sounds like you had a great race!

Scott I - glad to hear your wife is home and feeling better.

Scott K - re: fingertip drag drill.  We went over this at one of the swim clinics I went to and I couldn't seem to make it work.  Granted, I've never done it before but it just felt very awkward.  I know my rotation is not the best and I'm wondering if that's why it felt strange.  I was given a drill to do to help with rotation - 6/3/6, six kicks on your side, 3 strokes, 6 kicks on the other side, etc.  Will the fingertip drag drill get easier once my rotation gets better or do I just need to practice it more?  Also, I'm still hoping to get a video done so I can get your opinion on my stroke - just need to find someone to do it for me.

I also checked out the Sufferfest videos that you recommended for hill training.  The Angels one looks interesting - not sure I could keep up with the other 2!  I just need to set something up in the basement so I'll be able to see the computer. 

Janet

Scott-I have the video on my phone. Not sure how to put it in a file. I can email or message it to you if you would like to see it. Really appreciate the detailed response.

Brenda,

It is also known as a blood clot in the deep vein of the leg.  Unfortunately I am an expert as I have had four of them.  They say I am genetically predisposed to developing blood clots.  Oh lucky me!

Scott,

Tell you wife to follow the doctors orders re the DVT to the letter.  Been there, done that, four times.  Trust me, she needs to follow the doctors orders.  Hope she is feeling better.

Deb,

That is absolutely the right course of action.  You won't be able to make up the missed workouts and all that will happen if you try is you will injury yourself so just pick up your plan on the date you are going back and go from there.  The only alteration I would make is if you were off for an extended period of time - over two weeks or so - then I would shorten the first workouts back so that you can re-establish fitness.

Randy,

I sent you a PM with a link and password to upload the video to.

Glad to see everyone is busy.

Scott L - It is good to hear your wife is home.  Take good care of her.

Kristen - Sounds like you had a good HM and a really good time (I'll be thrilled to match your time).

Rod - Have fun at the Ironman Melbourne.  I always got a kick out of my volunteering.

Scott - With your Deep Vein experiences, how did they start?  

My Weight Challenge was:

No weight gain or loss   +5 points

569.4 minutes workout = 18.98 points

Total = 23.98 points

I am still nursing my knees for running as I am quite concerned that I may push too hard and really cause a problem (patellar tendonitis maybe).  They've been aching off and on all day today BUT, they don't bother me when I am running.  I avoided running since Friday but I'll give it an easy run tomorrow and see how it goes.

Everyday while I am working out I think of really good questions to ask here but then when I get on the computer I can not remember what they were.  Today, while I was enjoying a swim and feeling pretty good I thought of a particularly good question but the idea is completely gone. 

Janet,

Feeling awkward means your doing it right!  Unless you have extremely flexible shoulders, it is nearly impossible to trace your fingers in the water along the side of your body without extreme body roll.  It feels awkward because of the excessive body rotation.  When you go back to a normal stroke, the emphasis on high elbow and body rotation should improve your overall technique.  At least that is the goal.  Yes the drill is easier as your rotation improves.  The best way to do it is to over-emphasize your rotation.  As you probably know by now, I am generally not a fan of drills.  I frankly don't see the point of the 6/3/6 drill.  The fingertip drag drill will more than help you with rotation.  All doing a drill where you kick on one side then kick on the other side does is teach you to kick on your side.

Any of the Sufferfest videos are a challenge to keep up with.  That is the really nice thing about them.  You can get in a gear so you can do the workout and next time grab a bit more gear.  They provide a great workout!  Have fun!  Make sure you have a sweat towel handy!

Here are the current points for the Weight Loss/Workout Challenge

Good job everyone!

(0208_weightloss_workout.jpg)

George,

It started with a skinned shin.  I slipped on a ladder and scrapped the front of my right shin on one of the rungs.  A couple weeks later it had all but healed but I had started to have cramps in my right leg at night.  Then about a week later, I was at work and in the space of about an hour, my right leg swelled to over twice normal size.  I called the Dr., he said get to the hospital ASAP and they diagnosed a DVT that went from my ankle to my groin.  The ER doc said it was the scrape that started it.  Since then I have had three additional recurrences so I am on blood thinners for life to prevent or at least mitigate future DVT's.

The second, third, and fourth ones, before I was on blood thinners for life, started with cramping in the calf.