Slornow and Wannabefaster's Winter Mentor Group-CLOSED (Page 22)

Blanda and Renee-Congrats on the races!

Thanks for the encouragement on taking time off. It's been frustrating because I was just sick and took a couple of weeks off around Thanksgiving and I was just getting back on track with the training that time after choosing to take a little downtime. Now I was getting back on track from that and-sick again! Arrrrgh!

Seriously, though, I've been through it before and I know I'll be ok-I'm just anxious to get going.

I didn't end up doing anything yesterday. I have better hopes for today.

Congrats to the racers!

To those new at racing -- what Randy said.  It starts to feel 'comfortable' pretty quickly.  (I don't mean that it doesn't hurt.  I mean the pain begins to feel comfortable!)

I made it out on the bike this weekend for what used to be a routine ride, but was really really hard this time around.  It felt great, though (more of that comfortable pain) and the weather was ridiculously nice.  A little warm, in fact.

Scott-you will see huge benefits from the consistency and increased frequency in running.  I always appreciate my workouts more during a tough work week. Need that outlet!

Great information Jason, thanks!

At some point I might need to pull my coach aside at Masters practice to take a look at my stroke, but the cadence information is good too. I might try to turn it up a notch next practice.

Practice this morning went well! I kept up with the people in my lane and even had to pass a guy! I'm no longer the slowest on the team! lol

Maybe in a few months I can graduate to a faster lane.

Training plan calls for a Z1 spin at 100 RPM cadence. I really don't feel like I get much out of these particular workouts. I do concentrate on form, so maybe that's a plus, but it's REALLY hard to force myself to stay in a Z1 heart rate zone!

If you don't mind a former swimmer chiming in here.  The key as you stated above is finding the optimum balance.  In endurance swimming glide in not necessarily bad.  It's about rhythm.  Getting maximum power at a stroke rate that you can maintain for a long distance.

Too many swimmers that want to increase the stroke rate end up compromising thier stroke quality and/or efficiency.  If I am swimming anything over 500 yards I am trying to find that 'go forever' pace.  i stretch out and try to get maximum benefit for the energy expended.

Increasing the stroke rate and being dead at the end of a swim is a poor way to do a triathlon.

Just my 2 cents.

So I didn't get out yesterday at all.  That thing called life got in the way.  This morning it was back to the PT.  Here is what he had in store for me today:

45 minute stationary bike ride with 4 hill climbs.  Heart rate at 140 on the climbs and 130 other than that.  I have not yet done heart rate training so I am not sure what those number mean.

45 minute core exercise routine.  I have been doing this just over a week and I think it is helping.  I see the difference most after a bike ride.  Far less fatique even when riding faster.

1 mile on the treadmill.  He wanted to see my technique accepting that it is not exactly the same as being outdoors.  I ran the mile in 11:30 which is slow but two good things.  First I was able to run the entire mile without having to walk.  Second I did the last quarter mile at a 6 MPH pace.

I have seen these guys for multiple achilles issues and a hamstring issue.  One of the young therapists who works with the local high schools is going to be working with me on training through the sprint I am doing in April.  This should be fun.

Bottom line is I am tired and now get to go to work.  Such is the life.  My wife asked if I was exhausted.  I said, actually more energized.  I love this sport.

Everybody have a great day.

I get what everyone is saying about finding the happy medium between stroke frequency and stroke effort, but what's the first step in diagnosing what I need to do in order to go faster? I'm happy with what I can do right now, which in races last season worked out to be 2:00-2:20/100 depending on the length, but if I'm working to get faster, what do I work on first? Should I start by figuring out my stroke count per length, or per 50 (lap), or per minute? My workout sets are all generally at a pace I can maintain, I really never sprint, so I keep a consistent pace...should I try speeding up if my stroke count is low and I feel like I'm at a pace I can maintain? 

Thanks for all the advice!

Jamie-its hard to know the optimum balance between effort and stroke count. I would recommend trying some swim golf to compare strokes per 50 with time. Swim golf is basically you do a 50 and count your total strokes (up and back) and add it to your time. Say you swam the 50 in 51 seconds and used 30 strokes-your score would be 81.

Maybe do an easy, moderate and hard set using your current stroke rate and see what your "score" looks like. Might even want to do it a couple of times to have a better sample.

Then do the same easy, moderate and hard focusing on a quicker stroke rate and record the numbers. Comparing the 2 should at least give you an idea of how effort and stroke count influence your times. Certainly not an exact science but worth a shot.

With all of this talk about stroke cadence, glide and strokes per length I think its important to first get a comfortable, reproducible stroke.  Chances are that if someone is swimming 2:00 or more per 100 there are other more important things to work on with swim technique rather than your stroke rate/cadence.  With swimming being such a technically specific sport I think stroke rate/cadence is one of those things that will not fix or improve your technique. Until someone has a solid, technically sound stroke I would not worry too much about it.  I think there are lots of things that can be addressed that will make a bigger difference to a 2:00/100 swimmer rather than focusing on stroke rate.  Just my opinion as Ive been struggling to slowly improve over the last 3.5 years.

I did a swim in Nov and they neglected to tell me the heaters had been off for 10 days.  The water temp was 49!  It was just a few weeks before my first tri so I was wearing my wetsuit to get more comfortable in it.  Still it was a VERY short workout.  I think I lasted about 500 yards.

As for the 10% rule, I am not sure how it is intended to be applied but this is how I am doing it.

Swim - ignore it completely.  I am a very strong swimmer so I doubt I can push myself too hard.  I have too much expereince to hurt myself in a pool.

Bike - I looked at it early but tend to fudge it a little now.  I think the difference is I have rides I want to do and they are as long as they are.  I wouldn'y try a 100 mile ride but if there was a stretch ride for me that exceeded 10% by a little, I would not hesitate.  40% or 50% I would not do however.

Run - I treat the 10% as gospel. I have had too many injuries running to make that mistake again.  My running time was severely limited last year with Achilles tendonitis and then a hamstring problem.  I am working with my PT and will not violate the 10% rule.

So I guess the bottom line is a diaper answer...it depends.

Randy I would agree.  Working on stroke, rhythm & cardio at 2:00/100 would time better spent than worrying about cadence.  A solid foundation of those three should get most people down to 1:30-1:40/min with practice.  Worry about getting more strokes per after you are strong enough to swim 1000 yards straight through without killing yourself with a powerful stroke and comfortble rhythm.

Dave-I would have more flexibility with the 10% rule with biking and swimming as they are not as hard on the body as running....there is less impact. Of course, if someone has chronic shoulder issues they should probably be more careful with increasing their swim volume too quickly. I've always assumed the 10% rule applied to total weekly volume...for instance, increasing run total from 20 miles to 22 in roughly the same number of workouts. So, if you do 4X5 miles one week you should break down the 22 miles in a similar or relatively similar fashion.....Not 1 run of 15 miles and 1 of 5 miles

But, as with all things I think it depends on the experience of the athlete. Someone with years of consistent training in one discipline may be able to increase their weekly volume by more than 10% as their body is likely more acclimated to the work load.  

Just saw this link posted by my local tri club. 20 Best Running Songs of All Time. I have about half of them on my Ipod currently. Going to have to check out several of the ones I don't have.

http://www.menshealth.com/fitness/best-running-songs

10% Rule:  Randy -- I think you pretty much nailed it.  People (like me) who have flaws in the swim stroke should be a little careful because very rapid increases can lead to shoulder problems.  Obviously the solution is to fix the flaws, but this doesn't happen overnight.  I would also say that once you've got a lot of miles (thousands) on your legs, it might be possible to be more aggressive with the run.  I would also add that intensity is a huge factor.  More so in running than in S/B, your total 'volume' is a combination of intensity and time.

Running songs:  I have nothing to contribute here as I don't (any longer) listen to music while running, but while typing this I'm watching (well, mostly listening) to a youtube video of "Chet Atkins and Friends" from 1987 (title says it's from 2004, but Chet died in 2001 and yes I can call him 'Chet', or at least did -- I met him a few times and even once recorded with him!  I'm sure he forgot, but I didn't...).  It is very 1980s (especially the hair), and has a lot of music that isn't really my style, but the segment (near the beginning if you look) with Mark Knopfler and Chet playing together is pretty amazing, and Chet is always amazing.  I love that he plays with nails like a classical player.  Neither of them is shredding the thing, but they were both just about at their best around that time in ways that matter (to me).  If I listened to music while running, some of these guys' playing would be in there.

Comfortable pain:  Trust me; it happens.  I can't think of a better description.  I remember very distinctly how it felt at my last half marathon.  It's as if your body is saying "this really hurts, but we will continue to try to find a way through it".  Another way I'd describe it is as a combination of honest doubt about whether you will put in the performance you aspire to, coupled with a kind of comforting confidence that you are going to give it everything you can, and knowing (largely from failing) what that feels like.

You will as you keep training and you'll find that it's not as bad as it sounds. Like Micheal said it's pain that you know you can work through. It's the pain that you expect to have to work through at a certain point in a race (or training). You know it's coming. You know it's normal when you feel it and you know that it doesn't have to stop you. It's the pain that makes you stronger-not just in training/racing but in all aspects of life. After a while you come to embrace it, even seek it and wonder if that makes you crazy (I still don't know). You'll get there in the course of your training like any other aspect of this sport (or really any sport) and when you do it will be ok.

Got on the trainer last night and just rode easy for 45 minutes. Hoping to get a short run tonight but I'm still coughing stuff up so I might not if I don't feel good after work. hoping to get back to the Winter Bike Program on wednesday. I really do feel a lot better and I think I'm at the end of this thing.