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2009-11-16 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
~ AZ Sunshine ~ - 2009-11-16 8:23 AM PS - Maybe Santa Chuck will bring you a new bike for Christmas!! 


I'm hoping Santa Chuck brings me an iPhone 3 GS.   Santa Leah is considering giving me a new bike for Christmas, but maybe not.  I was thinking about getting a tri-bike, but from what I have read, I doubt if I would have sufficient advantage with a tri-bike for Cali 70.3 sufficient to justify the cost.  Now, IMAZ is a different story where it is a course where you would be at a disadvantage if you are not aero.  So, I am likely to get one, but probably in April.  I think there is a pretty good learning curve with riding aero and I don't want to add that into the equation. 


2009-11-16 2:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
~ AZ Sunshine ~ - 2009-11-16 8:18 AM Hey ladies - I was exhausted yesterday from my 10 mile run.  Today I hope to swim but I'm so darn tired, maybe not. 

Leah - I am also new to biking and don't really understand why the cadance is important.  CAn you tell me more about that?  Right now I'm just trying to keep a constant speed for longer.  Should I worry about cadence too?  Give me the scoop.  Kate


I am not certain I understand it well enough to explain.  I think it primarily has to do with aerobic endurance v. muscle conditioning.  I always rode at a low cadence and just mashed gears.  Until the last couple months I had NEVER been in the small chainring and just always relied on muscular strength.  When I rode with my coach that time and he wanted the cadence up, it was really hard for me to maintain a certain speed with that cadence, whereas I could have done it with bigger gears and lower cadence.  He said it was just something that I needed to train for. 

So, I think the idea that if your legs are used to a certain turnover, then you then get the additional speed by changing the gearing.  Supposedly 90 rpm is the optimal cadence for most people.  And I think there is truth to it.  Yesterday, in a sense, it was harder to go in the 70's than it was in the 80's, but the 80's was more tiring.  Does that make sense?  It sounds counter-intuitive, but it was so.  And yet, as dead-tired as I was, I don't think I ever got my heart rate above 145 and that makes it difficult to convince people that I did a really hard ride.  Which brings us back to conditioning and I am not in good cycling condition.   I think that if you start and end with muscular strength, you are limiting what you can do.  If you start with aerobic conditioning and end with muscular strength, then you expand what you can do. 

You would undoubtedly get a better answer from one of the people who post in the other forums, but I think my answer is correct, as far as it goes, but probably not well-explained because I don't completely understand the whole thing myself.  All I know is that I am going to work at being able to maintain a 90 cadence (not there yet) and then work on hills and speed. 

*****
Now, young lady, about that swim.  A nice refreshing swim will actually rejuvenate you and make you feel wonderful.  It is completely different from being tired from biking and trying to go running. 
2009-11-16 11:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
I've tried to do the cadence thing, but I always end up reverting back to what feels comfortable i.e. ~70-80. I can push 85, but anything above that feels unnatural and tires me out. They say higher cadence saves your legs a bit for the run, but if you're tired from trying to maintain it then what good is it doing you? (IMHO)

That said, I'm no expert, but it might be more worth your time at this point to focus on increasing distance, than worrying about cadence. I watched kona and saw a fair number of people mashing, and a fair number spinning like mad. Chrissie Wellington is theorized to have a cadence of 65-70 according to some web sources, so...

I think it's important to find a comfortable cadence that you can sustain for 56/112 etc miles... what that is might be different for everyone.

----

I hit my goal of running 10k by 12/31 last night - well really it was a run/walk, but my longest distance yet = 6.2 miles. 8 weeks for 5k-10k...so 13.1 is getting closer! I don't think i'll be able to hit my 10:00min/mile by 12/31, but no biggie, that was a long shot anyway.
2009-11-16 11:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
I took a day off  training to rest up again.  My shoulders and legs are hurting from the swim and the run.  I'm tired out tonight so I am just going to say a couple quick things.

1.  Leah - I'm going to have to research the cadence thing.  It doesn't make sense to me.  Should we just learn to go faster in our proper gearing? 

2.  Swim - My swim results finally came up for my Splash n Dash.  They quit timing at 1:02:00.  Can you belive it?  I paid $40 to swim and I don't get my time.  Stinks. 

3.  Bike - Hubby and I are going on a ride in the morning to gear up for our 66 mile ride this weekend.  I haven't had a long ride in a while.  It will be a challenge!

4.  Sad today - I heard about that little girl who died after her mother "sold" her to men.  Hurt my heart and made me cry.  What type of world are living in these days? 

I'll chat with you all tomorrow.  Kate
2009-11-16 11:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
Leah you should see if you can connect with some of the aidslifecycle training rides out of LA. The training rides are an excellent way to get comfortable with challenging courses, and up your distance (i did the ride in 2007). And usually they let people who are not participating in the ride come along. I have a training ride leader friend in san fran i can ask for a ride leader contact in LA if you're interested.

kiri

LeahDD - 2009-11-15 5:59 PM Oh man, oh man, oh man.  I just got back from my longest and hardest bike ride in a long time.  Just in case I was curious how close to HIM ready I was, the answer is NOT.  My new cadence sensor is killing me.  I went just over 33 miles and for most of the ride kept the cadence in the 80's, which is work for me.  I never before concerned myself with cadence and see that I should have.  There is no way I could have done this ride with the cadence consistently at about 90.  At least not yet.  And the distance is not much over half of the HIM distance.   Plus, this is a bike path that more or less parallels a river, so it is pretty flat.  And I kept it in the small chainring the entire flipping time.  I knew biking was my weak link, but it is really, really weak. 

I keep telling myself that I have really good overall fitness and that this will come, but I wish cycling fitness would get here NOW.

So, what did everyone else get in today? 
2009-11-16 11:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
I think I will post the cadence question on Triathlon Talk and see if I get a more coherent answer than what I gave.  It does make sense to me, but I can't explain why it does.  Anyway, I will have to do that tomorrow because I can't keep my eyes open and 5am will come soon enough.  Swimming day tomorrow.



2009-11-17 2:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
I did post the question in Triathlon Talk.  Got some answers, but nothing with the depth that I was hoping for. 
2009-11-17 3:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
The thing is that 90prm is just a general recommendation. The actual RPM which is best for you will differ based on your build and fitness level. I spin slower too in the 80 range.

Unfortunately I can't remember the specifics of what I was told but basically there is a "sweet spot" where your getting the most power for the least effort. It's about efficiency. Spin faster and your working harder then you need too and spin slower and your using too much of your muscle strength reserves up.

I'm sure one of the biking gurus can give a better technical/scientific explanation.
2009-11-17 5:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
Why doesn't one of you go and ask a follow-up question on that thread and bump it to the top and see if we get any more and/or better responses. 

I agree about the sweet spot idea.  It was "harder" to go at a lower cadence, at least for a while, but I think that then the issue was one of cycling fitness. 
2009-11-17 5:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
It is a little bit annoying that a thread (in Triathlon Talk) about what to wear cycling in cold weather gets 8 responses and a legitimate technique question gets 5. 
2009-11-17 5:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?

LeahDD - 2009-11-17 4:14 PM It is a little bit annoying that a thread (in Triathlon Talk) about what to wear cycling in cold weather gets 8 responses and a legitimate technique question gets 5. 

It's only annoying because you do not have to deal with frozen digits and internal organs freezing up while riding outside..Of course since moving to Colorado from Wisconsin I must say that I am much less interested in riding when it is cold then I used to be.

Cadence question..I used to have a coach that said if your muscles hurt use an easier gear and pick up the cadence..if you are out of breath use a bigger gear. Pretty simplistic.  I think everyone needs to find their sweet spot espeically with the varying levels of fitness or muscular strength. I try to keep my cadence in the 80's partly because my fitness level is not where it should be.  On the road bike I really notice the higher cadence on the flats. I am able to keep the same speed at what I perceive is less of an exertion level when I pick the cadence up.  While mountain biking I really notice the same thing on the hills. Much easier to climb at the same speed using the higher cadence.

However I think everyone jsut needs to experiment and find what works most efficiently for them.  Just watch the tour riders..Jan Ulrich always mashed larger gears at a lower cadence and was still a heck of a climber..but he was much more muscular then most of the other riders.  Pedersen and Armstrong used very high cadence even on the time trials..but again their vo2 max and conditioning were probably better then Ulrich's. 

This is just my opinion and two cents but the higher cadence does help me especially to keep my heart rate down but there is no way I could stay at 90 bpm with my conditioning level.  Have you experimented with a heart rate monitor and keeping the same speed over a couple miles using different cadences? I think it would be interesting to see if there is big difference in your heart rate or not.



2009-11-17 8:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
Hey Everyone!

Sorry I haven't checked in for a bit. I've got training all week long with no computer access and by the time I get home I flake out, watch tv then go to bed!

Got my "green light" today!! Went running with my running group and kept up with them on their "easy" run before our 10K this weekend. Yes, I signed up for the 10K even though I haven't been running. I know I can do it because I did a half marathon after having only run 8 miles as my longest distance run! I just may be a back of the packer but that's ok. I can officially throw myself back into training! I'll have to start updating the training logs!

I know nothing about cadence so I'll have to ask my little triathlon resource and some avid bikers I know!
2009-11-17 10:08 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?

Hello All: I just stumbled onto your thread and actually read most of it..seriously.  Anyway..I was wondering if you might have room for someone with a Y chromosome.  I am just getting back into training after a layoff of about 18 months (I have a daughter who is turning 2 the end of November - thus the layoff).  I am also looking to lose weight (currently 231 looking ot get to 185 by summer - havent been under 205 in 10 years)  and am signing up to do the Spirit of Racine..I mean the Racine 70.3 in July of next year.  I'm the guy who knows pretty much everything about diet, nutrition, exercise..but somehow never seems to put everything to use.  I think a group like yours would be very helpful.  For some reason I am much more motivated with female training partners, mentors, coaches then with men. I guess I just don't like the ego that come with testosterone sometimes..I love competition but also love just having fun training and also knowing when to put your ego away so you can learn something from those around you.  Anyway - I would love to join your thread if you would let me.  Also - 2 guilty pleasures of mine: biggest loser and house hunters on HGTV.  Why - I don't know.

2009-11-17 10:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
jdbadger - 2009-11-17 8:08 PM

Hello All: I just stumbled onto your thread and actually read most of it..seriously.  Anyway..I was wondering if you might have room for someone with a Y chromosome.  I am just getting back into training after a layoff of about 18 months (I have a daughter who is turning 2 the end of November - thus the layoff).  I am also looking to lose weight (currently 231 looking ot get to 185 by summer - havent been under 205 in 10 years)  and am signing up to do the Spirit of Racine..I mean the Racine 70.3 in July of next year.  I'm the guy who knows pretty much everything about diet, nutrition, exercise..but somehow never seems to put everything to use.  I think a group like yours would be very helpful.  For some reason I am much more motivated with female training partners, mentors, coaches then with men. I guess I just don't like the ego that come with testosterone sometimes..I love competition but also love just having fun training and also knowing when to put your ego away so you can learn something from those around you.  Anyway - I would love to join your thread if you would let me.  Also - 2 guilty pleasures of mine: biggest loser and house hunters on HGTV.  Why - I don't know.



It's OK with me.  The thing I like the best about this little group is that there is no ego and we are unfailingly nice.  Our triumphs are not necessarily the same as the people who post on the other threads might have, but it does not diminish them.  We are all on a mission to lose weight and some are closer to the goal than others, but no one has forgotten the journey and how hard it is.  And you already have your HIM for next year picked out.  Sounds like a good fit to me.  Welcome to the group. 

2009-11-17 10:35 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
As long as you don't mind being referred to as one of the ladies, you should be OK.;-)
I've been watching BL this season, I also get stuck watching lots of HH on HG, though not by my choice.
Any additional insight into cadence?

jdbadger - 2009-11-17 11:08 PM

Hello All: I just stumbled onto your thread and actually read most of it..seriously.  Anyway..I was wondering if you might have room for someone with a Y chromosome.  I am just getting back into training after a layoff of about 18 months (I have a daughter who is turning 2 the end of November - thus the layoff).  I am also looking to lose weight (currently 231 looking ot get to 185 by summer - havent been under 205 in 10 years)  and am signing up to do the Spirit of Racine..I mean the Racine 70.3 in July of next year.  I'm the guy who knows pretty much everything about diet, nutrition, exercise..but somehow never seems to put everything to use.  I think a group like yours would be very helpful.  For some reason I am much more motivated with female training partners, mentors, coaches then with men. I guess I just don't like the ego that come with testosterone sometimes..I love competition but also love just having fun training and also knowing when to put your ego away so you can learn something from those around you.  Anyway - I would love to join your thread if you would let me.  Also - 2 guilty pleasures of mine: biggest loser and house hunters on HGTV.  Why - I don't know.



Edited by losta 2009-11-17 10:40 PM
2009-11-17 10:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
It's totally fine with me too. I don't think we started out aiming to be female group only it just happened that way. It's kinds funny you mention feeling more comfortable with females as far as training etc, because I just noticed at nearly all my "friends" on my training log are female. I guess I have the same thing going on...

I considered doing Racine 70.3 also, but I settled on door county which is the same weekend. I've heard good things about both. Where in WI did you used to live?

Keel - YEAY on getting the Green light to run!! I just noticed your photos on your profile too! Nice putting a face to the name.




Edited by IdealMuse 2009-11-17 10:53 PM


2009-11-18 12:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
I believe the nutso train is gender neutral so hop on board!

woot! woot!
2009-11-18 11:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?

Thank you ladies for the welcome. So I guess I should be official and use the proper form..

  • About me:  42 years old, married, Father of a soon to be 2 year old.  I am from Racine Wisconsin originally and have lived in Minneapolis, Chicago and have been in Denver for 10 years.  I love the weather and lack of bugs in Denver but miss the water and the food in the midwest..fried cheese curds, real pizza and Italian, fish frys..yumm..I used to like mexican food but now have hated it for 5 years since it seems to be the only thing I can find in this state. Luckily I think there are more Wisconsin transplants in this state then there are native Coloradans..and I tend to meet about one a day..Go Bucky.
  • Athletic background: I was a pretty respectable athlete in High school - my best mile time was 5:30. I played football, volleyball and softball.  In law school I was at my finest.(I tended to play sports instead of go to class) and picked up biking.  After law school I got in to mountain biking.  I also started to gain weight and went from 178 and am presently at 231 and I am a little over 6 foot tall.  I have trained for Tri's on and off for about 3 years but have done few races. Nothing in the last 2 years.  I also blew out my acl, mcl, miniscus and a chunk of bone while playing volleyball 10 years ago. Although the ACL graft is awesome I have issues with the quad strength that leads to issues with the hips and the back. I am going to a PT right now to try and get things figured out ( a mountain bike crash I took two months ago didn't help matters.) I also still play a ton of volleyball. 
  • Why the Half Ironman: My mother had a stroke the year I graduated law school when she was 43 years old. (16 years ago..)she has not been out of a wheel chair since..further she has great difficulty moving her body - especially her right side. She has been through more surgeries then you can imagine and my father has been with her every step of the way. He carries her up and down the stairs of the house and he is now 63.  Three years ago she was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer.  We took a family picture at the time thinking it may be the last time we saw everyone together. It actually was ..my brother was killed by a drunk driver a month later at 2:30 in the afternoon on his way to go running.  The Racine half ironman is in my hometown and my family can watch me.  Last time I was home I found out that 4 or 5 people who used to mountain bike with my brother religiously every week have not been on their bikes since he was killed. This is not what he would have wanted.  Thus my reason is simple..I want to get in better shape for my daughter, complete a HIM where my mother can watch me along with my brothers two children..and prove to my brothers friends that you need to live your life.  If my dad and mom can do the things they do everyday without ever complaining I think I should be able to get my rear off of the couch...and acknowledge that giving up fried foods is not really a sacrifice.  I am also freaking out a little that I am a year away from when my mother had her stroke.
  • What is your Half Ironman goal: I want to finish the triathlon and have a smile on my face when I do.
  • What is your training plan:  Training plan is being developed. The PT is hindering the running but I need to get on the bike and swim.  The next 6 weeks I need to really hit the gym just to strengthen the quads and work on flexibility  
  • What is your next race:  I am thinking about doing one of the chilly cheeks races in Denver - it is 4 miles running and 10 miles biking..might be 2 feet of snow on the ground or 50 and sunny. 
  • Weight to lose: I would love to see 185 some time in the next few years. However I know that at 215 I feel great and anything less then that just adds to my fitness.  being at 231 right now I need to lose 16 lbs.  My problem is portion control and making wrong food choices.  I plan on logging all of my food and cutting down to 1800-2000 calories the next 6 weeks to jump start the weight loss.
  • Thanks again ladies for letting me in your group.
  • 2009-11-18 11:44 AM
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    Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
    Welcome Scott!!  Your story made me tear up.  I look forward to cheering you on as you train for the race. 
    2009-11-18 2:46 PM
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    Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
    Great story, Scott.  Glad you are here with us.  Kate (AZ Sunshine) and I both are lawyers as well, although Kate is not practicing right now.  I mostly drank my way through law school, but I did go to class at least.  I haven't had a drink in about 10-1/2 years and stopping drinking was what started me on my quest for physical fitness.  I'm still pretty slow at all three sports and that is unlikely to change.  I do triathlons because I swim, bike and run.  I don't swim, bike and run because I do triathlons.  So for me, there really is no season, off season, etc.

    Oh, by the way.  I have a 2-1/2 year old granddaughter and without knowing anything about your daughter, I should warn you that MY granddaughter is cuter, smarter, more charming, etc., than any other 2YO on the planet. 

    2009-11-18 4:38 PM
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    Wow..two other lawyers..I may change my mind about this group. I actually don't tell people I am a lawyer since I really don't care for them myself.  Luckily the vast majority of what I do is mechanic's liens so I deal mostly with construction people.  And Leah - I may have to disagree with you on the smartest, cutest 2 year old.  Mine is already watching football and yelling fumble when there actually is a fumble. (Don't worry she is only allowed an hour of t.v. at most per day and it has to be sports..her choice not mine.

    I would appreciate any suggestions the group can give me regarding nutritional resources or what has worked for you.  I am going to cut the calories and am going to loosely follow the Zone guidelines.  The nutrition is a huge obstacle.  Also..where are all of you at as far as running times?  I am just starting agian.



    2009-11-18 4:56 PM
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    Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
    Weight today = 223 (-1)

    Another exciting dreadmill run on tap for this afternoon. 

    k
    2009-11-18 5:16 PM
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    Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
    The only thing that has consistently worked for me is making sure I write down everything I eat every single day. It helps me see the what / how many / big whoops etc. I don't follow any particular diet - other than passing on the processed foods.

    My run times are pathetically slow at this point, although they have been coming down slowly. I'm still on run/walk routine. If I can hit high 11s it's a good day.

    k

    jdbadger - 2009-11-18 2:38 PM

    I would appreciate any suggestions the group can give me regarding nutritional resources or what has worked for you.  I am going to cut the calories and am going to loosely follow the Zone guidelines.  The nutrition is a huge obstacle.  Also..where are all of you at as far as running times?  I am just starting agian.

    2009-11-18 5:25 PM
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    Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
    Nutrition?  Oh goody, I get to get on my soapbox.  (Everyone else rolls their eyes and groans.)  I have been following for the last year - it has been an evolutionary process - Zone or Paleo.  I wasn't that good at Zone in the sense that the dietary choices should be 40% carbs, 30% protein and 30% fat, so I don't really follow it that way, but more in the foods that Zone allows.  Paleo is a little more restrictive in that you only eat fresh fruits and vegetables (but no legumes or potatoes), lean meats and nuts.  With Paleo you are supposed to keep your food choices about 55% protein and 45% fruits and vegetables.  I don't worry so much about the percentages.  With Paleo, there are no grains, no legumes, no dairy and simply no processed food of any kind.  Chuck (my significant other for almost ten years) and I eat mostly Paleo, but if we stray, then it will be something that is allowed on Zone, so that isn't much of a stray.

    I started out taking the first of the No Sugar Challenges here on BT.  I found that it was possible to live without sugar, fake sugar, processed foods and even Diet Coke.  That Challenge started on December 21 and I am a better person for it.

    After the first couple weeks of the No Sugar Challenge, I found that I just didn't care about Diet Coke, sugar or processed foods, and that is pretty much how my nutrition has gone.  I don't view this as a diet, but a lifestyle.  I figure that I have about ten more pounds to go (I started this cycle of weight loss in May 2008 at 171) and am now 139-140 and would like to be about 130.  More importantly I still have quite a bit of body fat that I still need to lose. 

    From doctor appointment in 2008 to doctor appointment in 2009, I had lost 19 pounds, dropped my overall cholesterol, raised my good cholesterol, and both my bad cholesterol and triglycerides plummeted.  Clearly, there are achievements that can be made in a single year.

    I don't think I am good about nutrition and training or racing.  I still worry about weight loss and probably don't fuel my workouts properly.  I am quite sure that I didn't eat enough during last tri.  I now have a coach, primarily a bike coach, but he will be helping me with every aspect of my training and I think that I will do a better job at my upcoming events.  I don't want to eat Gu and Clif bars and such, so I need to find out what and how much to eat.  During my last tri, I mostly ate sweet potatoes and bananas and believe those were good choices, but I just didn't eat enough. 

    I believe the first step for Americans to start reclaiming their health is to quit eating processed foods.  I recommend the DVD, Food, Inc.  It was an eye-opener. 

    OK.  I'm done for now.  But  whole-heartedly believe in the no-processed food lifestyle so I might mention this again. 

    Other people here have lost tremendous amounts of weight and will have different perspectives on how to achieve their goals.

    (And my granddaughter doesn't care about football.  All things princess, however ...)
    2009-11-18 5:42 PM
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    Subject: RE: Have I lost my mind to consider a HIM?
    Back to cadence.  I had the bright idea to email my coach and ask him.  Here are both my question to him and his answer.
    Leah,
    When you ride at a higher cadence and a lighter gear at the same speed you are using less force per pedal stroke. This
    puts the demand more on the cardiovascular system and less on the muscular system. This is important in long events
    such as 1/2 and Full IM events. You have a finite amount of muscular force that you can use in a given amount of time,
    so by developing the cardiovascular output side you will be less limited. I am purposely taking you out your comfort zone
    by assigning these drills. Eventually, it will get easier and you will already have the technique that is comfortable in
    your skill set (slower rpm, harder gear) to use when needed. You should develop a variety of pedaling techniques so that
    you can apply the most effective technique based on the demands of the event.

    We are 4 days from home, in Brawley, CA. I will be able to talk by phone on Mon/Tue next week.
    Cheers,
    Rick

    ---- Leah Davis wrote:
    I have been working at keeping my cadence up, which is hard. Explain to me why I care about keeping the cadence
    up. There are things that I notice, like on flat terrain that it is "easier" to pedal at a cadence in the 80's over a cadence
    in the 70's, but eventually I get too tired from that and have to drop down to a slower cadence until I recover and then
    I can pedal faster again. That seems to be inconsistent and I wonder if I am nuts. Anyway, I am working at this, but
    just trying to understand what I am doing and why.
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Leah
    ***************

    By way of explanation, he is currently on a charity ride across the country and now is almost back home. The Biking
    Cadence thread in Triathlon Talk finally did get some good answers and once you get away from the advice of finding
    the cadence that is right for you, what they say is pretty much what my coach said.




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