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Ironman Louisville : Official Thread (Page 23)
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 2011-01-10 8:16 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert  868    CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN |  Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official ThreadFurther clarificationon my statements. I said, but I personally don't think doing workouts this way is always in your best interest. What I meant by this way was always doing bricks is not in your best interest. The format is good, but not to do on a regular basis. |
| 2011-01-10 3:23 PM in reply to: #3142609 |
| Member 49 Toronto | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Wow, don't check for a bit and fall behind..... it's great there is alots of activity though. glad to hear the consensus is a tri-bike. I don't own a road bike anymore. I broke the frame and when i was deciding how to replace it, decided to go with a ti cross bike. It gave me more options and at the same time makes for a harder ride while on the road, with the extra rubber. My pinched nerve is finally easing. Good thing, I have a 1/2 marathon in just under two months. |
| 2011-01-10 7:57 PM in reply to: #3289212 |
Member 18 | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Tri Sam - 2011-01-10 6:04 AM lilly- If you mean back-to-back as in one right after the other, I would say, no, not necessarily. If you mean on day and then the next, I would still say, no not necessarily. I think it will be good to do a couple long brick sessions the closer you get to the event, but I personally don't think doing workouts this way is always in your best interest. Doing long rides one day followed by long runs the next day are helpful because you can still get used to running on somewhat tired legs. One thing to consider is after doing your long rides to do "run outs". They don't have to be particularly long either. Sometimes, 10-15 minutes is sufficient depending on what you want to accomplish. If you are asking because you simply cannot schedule your long days on consecutive days, then do what you can. Another consideration is that it is only January. I'm not going to get to concerned with the order of my workouts yet. I'm just focused on building each area slowly and trying to get/stay healthy in the process. Peace, ~Sam Back-to-back as in one day after the other. I ask as I live in the city, do not have a car and the trek to the swimming pool is far (or seems so in this cold). I prefer to do my swims at the weekend when I have more time but am worried that I am not fatiguing my body by not doing the long workouts Saturday and Sunday. Yes it is early the year, I just fear that if I stray from this training plan that I will be a mess on August 29th. As long as you say I can switch it up I will, I will concentrate more on the plan 20 weeks away. Thanks! |
| 2011-01-11 5:40 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 868 CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread lily- Yes, my two cents is to be patient. Do what makes the most sense for your schedule right now. When there is more daylight and the temperatures moderate, then you will have more time and can be more deliberate with when you do what. Others may have different opinions, and I'm ok with that. I just think it's important to use common sense and to not add unnecessary stress in these early...dark...cold...months. Keep it on. |
| 2011-01-11 5:51 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 868 CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Bilatreal breathing...take three! (Snap!) Ok, I pretty much have the bitlatera breathing down, but I still don't feel like I'm getting enough air to do anything long-ish (sustained may be a better term). In fact, I feel this way to the point where I cheated my a** off the other day and did a straight 600 yd with right-side breathing exclusively, just so I could get some distance in. Yeah, I know, 600 yds isn't that far, but for a continuous swim, that's where I've allowed myself to be right now. (I swam 1,500 yd this morning, but it was all chopped up with drills). I don't think I could have done the 600 yd straight while bilateral breathing. So...does this mean I don't actually have it down, that I'm not conditioned well, or do I just suck? Your thoughts are welcome. |
| 2011-01-11 6:44 AM in reply to: #3291712 |
Extreme Veteran 550 Vine Grove, KY | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread I think bilateral breathing is good to do in drills, for symmetry, and overall confidence in your swim stroke, but on race day I'd say over half the field is single side breathing every stroke. And a lot of what I have read recomends that just to get more oxygen into your body. |
| 2011-01-11 6:57 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 868 CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread I like your thinking. In fact, I like air....I like it a lot. Air is important. Air is good. My swim coach said she doesn't ever want to see me single side breathe. I think I may have to disappoint her. I like having the ability to bi-breathe and I believe it has improved my stroke. I can see continuing to bi-breathe in drills, but I've got to do what I've got to do. Now...which one of you is going to tell my coach? ...anyone? ...anyone? ...oh. |
| 2011-01-11 8:20 AM in reply to: #3291772 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Tri Sam - 2011-01-10 7:57 AM I like your thinking. In fact, I like air....I like it a lot. Air is important. Air is good. My swim coach said she doesn't ever want to see me single side breathe. I think I may have to disappoint her. I like having the ability to bi-breathe and I believe it has improved my stroke. I can see continuing to bi-breathe in drills, but I've got to do what I've got to do. Now...which one of you is going to tell my coach? ...anyone? ...anyone? ...oh. While doing your hypoxic breathing, are you using a pull buoy? How much kicking do you use while swimming? slight flutter of the legs when taking a breath? Based on your '09 swim time, you did well! how much time are you looking to take off? btw, what's her #? Here is a good read about hypoxic breathing. |
| 2011-01-11 8:29 AM in reply to: #3291772 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Tri Sam - 2011-01-10 7:57 AM I like your thinking. In fact, I like air....I like it a lot. Air is important. Air is good. My swim coach said she doesn't ever want to see me single side breathe. I think I may have to disappoint her. I like having the ability to bi-breathe and I believe it has improved my stroke. I can see continuing to bi-breathe in drills, but I've got to do what I've got to do. Now...which one of you is going to tell my coach? ...anyone? ...anyone? ...oh. Could not agree more. My swim coach told me that you will use bilateral breathing when needed and depending on the circumstance, i.e.- mass start, ocean swim (swimming opposite of the wave crash) but eventually as the race gets underway and you get settled on your pace, you'll end up breathing to one side, not unless you swim to both sides. I personally breath exclusively to one side and I do it every two strokes. It is how I feel comfortable and what comes naturally. |
| 2011-01-11 8:48 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Veteran 303 Columbus, Ohio | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread I only use bilateral breathing during drills. I'm breathe strictly on the right side on race day. I have the same problem when I bilateral breathe in practice - I never feel like I get enough air when breathing on my weak side. |
| 2011-01-11 9:03 AM in reply to: #3292053 |
Extreme Veteran 683 Cleveland Area | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread DLaw - 2011-01-11 9:48 AMI only use bilateral breathing during drills. I'm breathe strictly on the right side on race day. I have the same problem when I bilateral breathe in practice - I never feel like I get enough air when breathing on my weak side. |
| 2011-01-11 9:03 AM in reply to: #3292053 |
Extreme Veteran 683 Cleveland Area | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread DLaw - 2011-01-11 9:48 AMI only use bilateral breathing during drills. I'm breathe strictly on the right side on race day. I have the same problem when I bilateral breathe in practice - I never feel like I get enough air when breathing on my weak side. x2 , except I breath on my left side. Edited by abrezo 2011-01-11 9:04 AM |
| 2011-01-11 9:33 AM in reply to: #3291996 |
Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread golfpro - 2011-01-11 8:29 AM Tri Sam - 2011-01-10 7:57 AM I like your thinking. In fact, I like air....I like it a lot. Air is important. Air is good. My swim coach said she doesn't ever want to see me single side breathe. I think I may have to disappoint her. I like having the ability to bi-breathe and I believe it has improved my stroke. I can see continuing to bi-breathe in drills, but I've got to do what I've got to do. Now...which one of you is going to tell my coach? ...anyone? ...anyone? ...oh. Could not agree more. My swim coach told me that you will use bilateral breathing when needed and depending on the circumstance, i.e.- mass start, ocean swim (swimming opposite of the wave crash) but eventually as the race gets underway and you get settled on your pace, you'll end up breathing to one side, not unless you swim to both sides. I personally breath exclusively to one side and I do it every two strokes. It is how I feel comfortable and what comes naturally. x2! I don't know why so many coaches INSIST on the bilateral breathing... for most of us it's the hardest thing to change and for me at least I think the time would be better spent (much higher return on investment) with focusing on form/stroke tweaks. Or maybe I'm just stubborn and set in my ways.  Yes it's good to know how to do "just in case" - but spending hours and hours and hours trying to perfect it is not a good use of time, IMO. Kinda like flip turns. |
| 2011-01-11 9:36 AM in reply to: #3291712 |
| Member 70 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Tri Sam - 2011-01-11 5:51 AM Bilatreal breathing...take three! (Snap!) Ok, I pretty much have the bitlatera breathing down, but I still don't feel like I'm getting enough air to do anything long-ish (sustained may be a better term). In fact, I feel this way to the point where I cheated my a** off the other day and did a straight 600 yd with right-side breathing exclusively, just so I could get some distance in. Yeah, I know, 600 yds isn't that far, but for a continuous swim, that's where I've allowed myself to be right now. (I swam 1,500 yd this morning, but it was all chopped up with drills). I don't think I could have done the 600 yd straight while bilateral breathing. So...does this mean I don't actually have it down, that I'm not conditioned well, or do I just suck? Your thoughts are welcome. I think it's WAY too early to stop trying to bilateral breath. I suggest when you do an endurance w/o, go unilateral so you get your distance in, but when doing drills and repeats, etc. continue trying the bilateral thing. You know you can swim the distance, and you have months to perfect this bilat thing. Keep trying. Nancy |
| 2011-01-11 10:35 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Extreme Veteran 346 Lafayette, IN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread I try to only bilateral breath. I actually tried to breath to just one side and it was uncomfortable. This was during a long swim though and I tried to stay calm and focused. I bilaterally breath so I can concentrate on my stroke during a long swim. I have been wondering though if I should only breath to one side when I am doing speed sets. Just as in running, when you are sprinting, you tend to need more oxygen. I wonder if my speed sets could be faster if I only breath to one side. Races typically make you swim faster than your practice pace. I am concerned that I will go into oxygen debt if I go too fast while I am bilaterally breathing. I have to admit though, my only goal for the swim is to survive. I think I am going to start out bilaterally breathing and adjust during the race as needed. |
| 2011-01-11 10:42 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Elite 3371  | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread I breathe when I need to breathe. I prefer bilateral. But on race day, I breathe either every four, three, or two strokes as I go further and become more winded. Bilateral breathing is not worth exiting the water in oxygen debt. Most people will be in oxygen debt breathing every stoke anyhow. Edited by steveseer 2011-01-11 10:43 AM |
| 2011-01-11 10:58 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 868 CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Ok, here is what I'm looking at right now. I'm going to continue doing bilateral breathing drills for form and to keep the skill available to me. I will also continue to try to swim longer with this method. HOWEVER, I will also swim one time a week single-sided (what is most comfortable) to gradually increase my distance. In this way I am not giving up on the concept, I will give it its due, yet I won't feel like I'm falling behind. |
| 2011-01-11 11:11 AM in reply to: #3292414 |
| Alpharetta, Georgia Bronze member | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Tri Sam - 2011-01-11 10:58 AM I guess I think I'm missing something because I need to swim so much slower to swim using bilateral breathing and I want to be able to swim at least as fast as when I'm single-side breathing. This is what I don't get. If it makes you significantly slower, why do it? Why sacrifice the time/speed for something that is not technically "wrong" at all? I'll say it again... return on investment! |
| 2011-01-11 11:26 AM in reply to: #3292439 |
Master 2020 | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread lisac957 - 2011-01-11 11:11 AM Tri Sam - 2011-01-11 10:58 AM I guess I think I'm missing something because I need to swim so much slower to swim using bilateral breathing and I want to be able to swim at least as fast as when I'm single-side breathing. This is what I don't get. If it makes you significantly slower, why do it? Why sacrifice the time/speed for something that is not technically "wrong" at all? I'll say it again... return on investment!
X2 |
| 2011-01-11 11:58 AM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 868 CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Well, I want to have the skill so I can use it if I need it, but I won't use it if I find that I can't swim as fast or faster than when I single-side breathe. |
| 2011-01-11 12:03 PM in reply to: #3292180 |
Expert 668 Lancaster, PA | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread lisac957 - 2011-01-10 10:33 AM golfpro - 2011-01-11 8:29 AM Tri Sam - 2011-01-10 7:57 AM I like your thinking. In fact, I like air....I like it a lot. Air is important. Air is good. My swim coach said she doesn't ever want to see me single side breathe. I think I may have to disappoint her. I like having the ability to bi-breathe and I believe it has improved my stroke. I can see continuing to bi-breathe in drills, but I've got to do what I've got to do. Now...which one of you is going to tell my coach? ...anyone? ...anyone? ...oh. Could not agree more. My swim coach told me that you will use bilateral breathing when needed and depending on the circumstance, i.e.- mass start, ocean swim (swimming opposite of the wave crash) but eventually as the race gets underway and you get settled on your pace, you'll end up breathing to one side, not unless you swim to both sides. I personally breath exclusively to one side and I do it every two strokes. It is how I feel comfortable and what comes naturally. x2! I don't know why so many coaches INSIST on the bilateral breathing... for most of us it's the hardest thing to change and for me at least I think the time would be better spent (much higher return on investment) with focusing on form/stroke tweaks. Or maybe I'm just stubborn and set in my ways. Yes it's good to know how to do "just in case" - but spending hours and hours and hours trying to perfect it is not a good use of time, IMO. Kinda like flip turns. ha,ha,ha - so true about the flip turns  - not pretty but it works |
| 2011-01-11 12:59 PM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 1143 Wellington, Florida | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Just did a nice base run of 8mi. here in Rio, very HOT and Humid, just like LOU? Dst: 8mi Tm: 1:20:57 Pace: 10:08 min mi. Avg HR: 156 Slowly building my base thru jan/feb with light interval work in later feb/mar heading into the Publix/Georgia 1/2 later in March. Formal IM training begins after the 1/2 Mary, so hope to hit the ground with a BIG run base this season. |
| 2011-01-11 1:23 PM in reply to: #3142609 |
Expert 868 CALEDONIA/MIDDLEVILLE, MICHIGAN | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread Cube- Good work! |
| 2011-01-11 1:52 PM in reply to: #3292486 |
| Member 70 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread jhouse4 - 2011-01-11 11:26 AM lisac957 - 2011-01-11 11:11 AM Tri Sam - 2011-01-11 10:58 AM I guess I think I'm missing something because I need to swim so much slower to swim using bilateral breathing and I want to be able to swim at least as fast as when I'm single-side breathing. This is what I don't get. If it makes you significantly slower, why do it? Why sacrifice the time/speed for something that is not technically "wrong" at all? I'll say it again... return on investment!
X2 I think there are several advantages to bilat breathing. One is in races where weather / waves are a factor. If you only know how to breath left, and that's where the waves are coming from - you're in trouble. Also, I can get into a nice rhythm breathing every third stroke - for me - breathing every stroke is too much. Most importantly, in an open water swim, I think you swim a straighter line breathing bilaterally which ultimately can save time and energy. It balances out the muscles used, and allows you to roll to both sides, not just the side that you breath on. I don't think you need to do it in every circumstance, but as Tri-Sam says - good skill to have. And just because it slows you down initially doesn't mean it can't make you faster in the long run. (I'm not saying it does, but I think it can help your swimming). |
| 2011-01-11 2:13 PM in reply to: #3292894 |
Master 2020 | Subject: RE: Ironman Louisville : Official Thread oregonducks - 2011-01-11 1:52 PM jhouse4 - 2011-01-11 11:26 AM lisac957 - 2011-01-11 11:11 AM Tri Sam - 2011-01-11 10:58 AM I guess I think I'm missing something because I need to swim so much slower to swim using bilateral breathing and I want to be able to swim at least as fast as when I'm single-side breathing. This is what I don't get. If it makes you significantly slower, why do it? Why sacrifice the time/speed for something that is not technically "wrong" at all? I'll say it again... return on investment!
X2 I think there are several advantages to bilat breathing. One is in races where weather / waves are a factor. If you only know how to breath left, and that's where the waves are coming from - you're in trouble. Also, I can get into a nice rhythm breathing every third stroke - for me - breathing every stroke is too much. Most importantly, in an open water swim, I think you swim a straighter line breathing bilaterally which ultimately can save time and energy. It balances out the muscles used, and allows you to roll to both sides, not just the side that you breath on. I don't think you need to do it in every circumstance, but as Tri-Sam says - good skill to have. And just because it slows you down initially doesn't mean it can't make you faster in the long run. (I'm not saying it does, but I think it can help your swimming).
I disagree... I have swam in all sorts of water from the San Francisco bay to the smallest of lakes, waves are waves and will affect breathing no matter what side you are breathing from.
I have swam competitively for a majority of my entire life and I have never turned my head to the left in competition and only do it in open water to see if someone is hitching a ride on my left side. I don’t practice it and I think if someone told me that I needed to do it at this point in my life I would laugh and them and tell them to pound sand. Improving your efficiency in the water is going to your best return. Hands down.
Oh and I am a swim coach both USA Swimming and ASCA Level II
Edited by jhouse4 2011-01-11 2:13 PM |
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