Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 23)

Jorge's can be a really brutal cycling program but the intensity proves to be very beneficial to your overall cycling fitness over the 16 weeks period.  There are many different types of WO's in the plan and they are rotated to provide various benefits to your overall cycling power and fitness.  Normally you would use the program to train over the winter or when weather isn't conducive to outdoor riding (your summers may apply here) but you can apply the same WO's to outdoor training as well.  I used similar WO's over my outdoor riding season last year and reaped all kinds of cycling gains by applying his principals.

I can do up to 3 hours on the trainer but it's unlikely I'll do that this winter.  I will probably max my rides around 2.5 hours indoors this year.  I typically have been doing 2 hour rides with a fair amount of intensity at or above threshold for my long rides each week.  I don't feel I need to go any longer over the winter because these 2 hour rides aren't far from a 40 mile outdoor ride and that will set me up nicely to begin outdoor long rides in the spring.

Dirk, I will check to make sure at least one of them is working.  PM me your address and I'll send one that is working (assuming they aren't all busted) (no this is not a ploy to get your address to be able to stalk you).

RE your foot:  My first inclination having gone through PF is that you need to do what works for you.  I would think that you are increasing your mileage a little too quick given that you are still feeling some pain.  With that said, if you are not getting an increased amount of pain and it isn't changing your running form or anything like that....you can probably continue.  What I would really like you to do is find someone to tape your feet while running and give you a thorough evaluation.  The PT that video taped me running was able to identify my natural foot strike issue and put a small shim under my insole.  I had been going to PT for 4-5 months and had two sets of cortisone injections in the bottom of my foot.  That small shim he put in my shoe solved my problem in something like a week as I remember.

Tony, that's a great looking lab!  I'm psyched for you.  Remember, like anything, the more work you put in the more you will get out of her.  I think I have spent about an hour a day training our dog since we got her last weekend.  It's really paying off....in baby steps. :-)

Will,  the Jorge winter cycling program is designed to boost your (TP) threshold power (or your "power output" at your lactate threshold).  Lactate threshold is essentially the effort level at which your body starts to accumulate lactate in it's system.  It is your metabolic limiter during exercise.  You can think of it as what determines the development of muscle fatigue.  The higher your TP, the higher power output you can sustain without developing muscle fatigue.  Like everyone has said it's a 16 week long course and it's pretty tough.  Once you get going into it, the pain is sort of addictive.  I ran through the program last year starting in November and thought that I sort of ran out of gas in the middle of July....so I started a month and a half later this year.  We'll see if that works out.  

Where on the glute?  Are you stretching them?

I hesitate to say which muscle exactly, it seems as though it might be the piriformis, but I can't be sure.  It's dab smack in the middle though.  I have been trying to do various stretching exercises, although it's difficult to get to the exact place that's being affected, or feel like I'm stretching that exact area where I feel the problem.  I also have one of these things "Rolling Muscle Massager," in which I use the ends to press against the muscle- one end is against the wall, the other pushes into the muscle to the point where I can feel it.

It feels better than last night (I think.)  But I wonder if this is something a massage therapist can work out?

Dirk, I'd say so far your build up is fine from an overall perspective, given the years of running training you've accumulated.  However...  PF isn't something you should fool around with in terms of fighting through the pain too much.  You may very well hit a point soon where the build will affect you, and at that point be SMART and level off, letting your body absorb however far you've gotten.

Also, I think it's important mentally for you to adjust your Boston experience.  You've been injured.  You are recuperating.  You are not going to be as prepared for this marathon as you has hoped, and you certainly will not be at your peak running fitness.  Those are incontrovertible truths at this point.  I'm not going to say anything more about that side of it other than let that stuff percolate and enjoy Boston no matter what.  It's a very unique marathon and it's important to experience it as it deserves.

PM sent but id you plan on stalking me it's going to cost a pretty penny to stalk me from 1000 miles away.

I agree with your suggestion that I am increasing mileage to quickly.  I cannot argue that point at all.  I am trying to capitalize on my overall running fitness that I have carried for so long.  I don't necessarily think I have a lot of that marathon fitness left to be honest but I carried a slightly higher than HIM run volume almost all summer and that is what I am trying to capitalize on.

The pain is actually slowly decreasing and becoming more and more localized to smaller and smaller areas.  The pain in most cases has went from stride/gait/plant altering (since Oct) to what seems to be normal now.  One thing I cannot be certain of is that I have not altered my form from what it was a year ago.  I don't really have much in the way to look at.  I did post something on youtube some time ago that might prove beneficial to look at.  I will consider videoing myself again and comparing the 2 video to find any alterations.  I'm glad you pointed out the video.  I had forgotten about that.

Knowing that my mileage is increasing quickly actually isn't my biggest concern.  It is actually my ability to discipline myself to take the recovery time I'll need.  That's where I need to accountability!  I need the recovery Nazi's to watch me!

SMART???  I'm in trouble now!!  Perfectly stated and as I pointed out in my post to Jonathon, this is exactly where I need the assistance.

I have already altered my expectations for Boston.  I know I won't be setting myself up to PR.  That went out with the PF injury time and the planned mileage I had originally planned.  I don't know that I'll set much of a time goal but I will try to make sure I do suffer some, if only at the end of the race.  I will however enjoy the race, the atmosphere and the time I can get together with you and Jonathan.

The piriformis is the upper lateral side of the butt.  If you feel the bony protrusion in your lower back, it's outside of that and a bit lower.  Sort of a triangle.  Do me a favor, do you know what the pigeon pose is??  If you can get your leg laterally in front of you on the bed and the other foot still on the ground.  LIKE THIS

Let me know if that stretches it.

And yes...a massage therapist can help this.  It's one of the reasons I have had massage work done in the past.

That's a good call Dirk.  I couldn't agree more with what Warren said.  

How painful is the ART on the PF location?  Have you had your feet taped up yet?  That's a cool experience.

Oh, and my chiro/ART specialist has mentioned the piriformis in the past, which is also what made me believe that could be it.  I know the pigeon pose from yoga! (But done on the ground, obvi, not on a table like in that video.) I actually do that stretch occasionally.  I just did it, and I would say if I hold that stretch at a certain angle, it hits my issue area.  

Generally, it seems to be doing better than even just a few hours ago.  I feel like I can start to walk normally!  (Still walking very gingerly though.)  I also believe applying pressure to the muscle is helping.

Time to restart the cadence talk, I completed a session on Saturday with a concentration on finding out how high I could increase the cadence without causing the wobbly and general unstable condition that I believed Dirk described.  I will use my last 2 rides as comarison

Thursday: AVG Cadence: 87  Max Cadence: 101  AVG Power: 189 MAX: 323 Time 52:43 at 16.8/mph HR:AVG 136 Max 163

Saturday: AVG Cadence: 96  Max Cadence: 106  AVG Power: 193 Max: 299 Time 54:00 at 17.1/mph HR:AVG 136 Max 167

I found that I can spin up to 100 rpm's without creating an issue.  When I reached the 100 mark and went over there was definitely some wobble going on.  The biggest benefit, on Thursday I fell off the bike barely able to stand on Saturday when the ride was done I felt fine.  If I "wanted" to I could have ran a few miles without any issues.

So in short I am going to increase my cadence on all rides and save my legs, thanks for the input.

Matt I need to do a little test myself to see what I can ride at. I feel like I wobble way too much on the trainer to keep a very high cadence. Outdoors it's not a problem and I usually ride with a higher cadence then indoors. Following Jorge's plan though I have been working in a bigger gear for the most part so my cadence has been lower but I have been doing this intentionally in anticipation of the hilly terrain in WI. I think this real good feedback though.

Today's workout was very rough for me and I am surprised I was able to actually finish it. I completed week 5 of Jorge's WCP today. The total workout with the warmup and cool down was 2:35. I knew during the first hour I was in big trouble and it was going to be a long and painful session.

I went to bed too late last night and probably got up too early so it was basically my own fault knowing I had to do this workout today. I knew I was tired and really not wanting to do the workout today. As much as I didn't want to do it I know I needed to do it so I bascially forced and willed myself todo it and to stay on the bike today. 

After doing the 10 minute warmup and then 60' @ 75% and then 60' @ 80% which I struggled through both hours I knew there was no way I was going to be able to do 15' @ 95% but I figured I'd give it a go. I figured maybe I could do the 95% at 5 minute intervals with a minute rest in between but I decided I would just try and stay between 90-95% for as long as I could. Surprisingly I was able to do just that and actually rode above 95% for the last 5 minutes. It's amazing what you can do when you know the end is near.

Honestly it was not one of my better workouts but I realize it's a pretty long season and not every workout you do is going to be a good one. Today was a struggle the entire time I was on the bike and it really sucked but I am happy I didn't pack it and trust me I wanted to do that several times during the session. That's one thing about Jorge's plan, just when you think you are making progress with it he finds a way to humble you.

This is very interesting, thanks for sharing. I am very much in the low cadence (80-85rpm) category and I can feel it in my legs after a tough w/o or after a particularly hilly ride. I am also hoping to gradually increase my cadence and to try and incorporate this consciously going forward. 

Yep!  Pigeon pose!  Don't mess up your knees doing it, though.  Use a blanket or pillow under the hip of your bent knee to keep your hips level.

I'm on a self-imposed running ban until further notice.  (Seriously sucks)  I rode my bike yesterday and today.  My foot hurt when I got out of the saddle or when I climbed up hills a little more vigorously.  If I stayed seated and kept a constant cadence / perceived power, I was fine.  In fact, I totally dropped my husband on our ride today.  Ooops.  He's a big boy.  He knows how to get home. 

Tracy, hope you get your foot well soon, great on the biking...now you be nice to your hubby...lol

Tony and Matt, GREAT workouts!!!

Dirk, hope your foot continues to get better.

Samantha, how is your elbow? glute?

2 questions for ya'll

1. The bottom center of my arch on my right foot is very tender, after I start running it loosens up...  AND the side of my ankle is really sore as if I have turned my foot over.  Sitting here right now if I put the outside of my foot down so the bottom of my foot is facing the other foot, the ankle joint on the outside is real tender, it too loosens up when I run.  Any advice on stretches or what to do?

2.  Since ya'll have been talking about cadence on the bike, I hve been thinking about getting a cadence thing.  I went to the bike shop yesterday and they had a Cateye wired and wireless.  Which one is better. 

The wired one was $60 at the bike shope and on-line like $35.  When will the bike shops figure out it is better to make a little $$$ from everyone than a lot from a few? I would be willing to pay a few $$$ more to suport the LBS, but not double.

Karl I have a Trek Incite cycling computer you can have for free if you want. It tracks cadence, you can pair a HR monitor, will tell your speed outside etc. It is a little fussy and I lost my patience with it then bought the Garmin accessories.  It's just sitting in a basket in my basement so let me know if you are interested!

Hate to read about your foot pain. Tis the season I guess, my right foot is bothering me too. I'm not sure about stretches but here is what I am doing for my foot:

Ice, cut my mileage in half this week (which is a joke because I'm barely even running), compression wrap, evaluating my shoes, and taking a prescription NASID the podiatrist gave me the last time I had tendonitis. I also have some very specific exercises given to me by my MAT therapist so I've started those again.

Good luck!

Ha, that is why my husband won't ride with me! Good luck with your foot too .

I got a good laugh from reading this from you ladies this morning. I guess it is a good thing my wife doesn't bike. Tracy and Dina sorry to hear about the ailments. I hope you are both feeling better soon and can get back to running pain free.

Karl sorry to hear about the foot and ankle. I can't help you there unfortunately but my two cents on the bike computer. Either wired or wireless would work fine. I have both, the wireless is a little neater since you don't have to worry about securing the wire other then that I don't think there is any difference and either would work fine for you. I do hear you on the pricing but if you buy it at the bike shop I'm pretty sure they would install it for you and would not charge you extra to do that. That's priobably why it is almost double the price.

Tony nice job busting out that ride yesterday!! When you are in your IM you will be able to look back at all of the effort you put into these workouts to pull you through.

I really hope my posts are making sense today because I am in a fog. Not getting much sleep while I try to crate train and housebreak the puppy.

Matt the data you got from your rides makes a really cool comparison! Thanks for posting that.

Speaking of cycling workouts, how do you all feel when you are working at 90% of your FTP? That was the highest effort in the ride I picked yesterday but it did not feel like much of a challenge and I was consistently working above my numbers. I'm really starting to think I need to do my test over again but I don't really want to! Or I just need to learn the subtleties at different effort levels as opposed to just pounding and an easy pedal. I was also trying to keep my cadence in the 90's so maybe that made a difference?