RE-OPENED Birkierunner's 2013 mentor group - RE-OPENED!!! (Page 25)

Yeah, the swim can be an adventure if you get caught in a pack with no way to escape.  For the goggles I would buy some anti-fog spray/liquid they sell for goggles...really works.  As for advice on the swim...if you aren't confident of mixing it up in groups you can always get at the back of the group at the start and even wait a few seconds before starting your swim.  In the big scheme, waiting a little bit on the swim start isn't going to hurt you that much and it may prevent another panic attack situation.

My half went about how I expected it would given being waaaaay over racing weight and how early it is in the season.  Last time I did this race I finished 8th overall and did a 1:25:44.  I told myself before this year's race I'd be happy with a 1:30 and ended up with a 1:30:57, 31st overall, and 2nd AG so I was satisfied with how things went.  Today I start to lose the weight and ramp up the volume.  IM Mont-Tremblant will be here before I know it. 

How did everyone's weekend go?

I'll add that if you prefer the natural way of defoggin your goggles - spit is your friend.  Spit in them, rub it around, let it sit for a minute or two, give a quick rinse in the pool/lake - put them on.  99% effective for me.  Licking them doesn't seem to work as well.

Good weekend ride for me at 75km.  Rode with two other guys, and wasn't working too hard on the way out.  I pushed to the front when we made the turnaround and really pushed the pace, and put out a good effort for the whole ride back.  Haven't really pushed like that until this year.  Good reminder I need to do more of it.

Hey all!

finally got nice enough here to get out and ride!  did a quick 20 with a group to see some donkeys and then rode into work after running yesterday, of course, then had to ride back home afterwork.  and of course it rained and got a bit colder.  *sigh*  70s tho today!

Hey Todd!  The doctors have said I can start light workouts again on Monday so I will be back on a much more regular basis.  FINALLY!!!

Yeah, entering the water near the top of your ear is probably not the best technique.  I will try and walk through the freestyle stroke; starting with the recovery, through entry, catch and pull.

So, imagine you are in the water, with your right hand at the end of your stroke, about to begin the recovery – I call this the ‘recovery position.’  I have spoken about body roll on multiple occasions.  This is where proper body roll will really come in to play.  As your right hand completes the stroke and reaches the 'recovery position' your hip is beginning to roll up and out of the way.  The best way to describe the 'recovery position' is to say in the correct position you can drag your thumb across the side of your hip as you begin the recovery.

Your hand SHOULD NOT be the first thing out of the water.  Your elbow should actually come out of the water first on your recovery, followed by your hand (remember ‘drag your thumb across your hip’ to have hand and arm in proper position).  You want to maintain a high elbow throughout your entire recovery.  Picture keeping your elbow high and dragging your fingertips across the top of the water as you go through your recovery.  Try not to ‘windmill’ your arms out to the side.  Rather, try to trace a straight line with your fingertips all the way through the recovery.  Maybe this will help you visualize what I mean.  If you and a buddy are sharing a lane, going in opposite directions and your both doing freestyle properly, you can easily pass each other in the same lane; on the other hand, if one or both of you are swinging your arms out to the side through the recovery, you will not be able to pass each other in the lane without hitting arms.  Moving on through the recovery, about the time your elbow is even with your shoulder you should be at your maximum body roll, allowing your hand to travel the shortest distance while maintaining the high elbow profile.  You want to reach forward, however NOT to full extension, before your hand re-enters the water.  As a very general guideline, your hand will begin to re-enter the water about the time the crook of your elbow is even with the top of your head.

Ok, take a second now and hold your hand out in front of you, fingertips pointed down.  Note the line formed from your middle finger to your pinky.  Ideally, you want that line to enter the water horizontal to the surface of the water.  With me so far?  Hold your hand out in front of you again, fingers pointed straight down towards the floor with your elbow very high.  We are going to look at two different angles this time.  You can rotate your hand so your fingers move left and right, as well as forward and backward.  So, with your hand pointed straight down, rotate your hand so the middle finger/pinkly line is horizontal to the floor.  Now, whatever angle you had to rotate your hand to get the finger line horizontal to the floor, rotate your fingers forward the same angle.  Your hand is now in the ideal entry attitude for YOU.  I know this all seems a little ridiculous, however, if your hand enters properly, you will be in perfect position for the catch.  The catch happens to be the nemesis of virtually ALL beginning swimmers and a very high majority of tri-athletes who did not begin life as a swimmer.

So your right hand just entered the water at roughly three quarter full arm extension.  Your body has begun to roll back, your left hip is now beginning to roll up out of the way.  Now the body roll will complete your entry.  I like to think of it as “rolling into the stroke.”  Your right shoulder at this point is rolling down and helping your arm and hand to reach full extension in front of you, roughly 8-16 inches under the surface (you will find the depth that is comfortable for you).  I encourage people to ‘reach for the wall at the end of the pool.’  You should reach full extension at the same time you achieve maximum body roll.  A word of caution – many people take full extension to mean lock your elbow and un-naturally reach as far forward as you can.  That is NOT what it means.  Full extension means reaching as far forward as you can in a natural way with a very slight bend still in your elbow.

You have maintained the hand angle that we earlier determined all the way through your entry.  Now, as you reach full extension and maximum body roll, your hand maintains the middle/pinky line horizontal to the bottom of the pool and your fingers drop towards the bottom of the pool (right hand is now rotated left-right and is vertical forward-backward, your palm at this point will be perpendicular to your direction of travel).  This is the ‘Catch’ that so many people talk about.  I have seen people hesitate at the end of the entry, just before beginning the catch and pull.  The entry, catch, and pull should be one fluid movement.  If done properly it will be very difficult to determine where the entry ends and the catch begins or where the catch ends and the pull begins.

There is a tremendous amount of disagreement on hand position and how you should pull through the water.  Your hand follows an S-pattern through the water, your hand follows a straight line underwater.  Your fingers are slightly open, your fingers are tight together.  I think in reality, none of those differences are going to have any significant impact on a triathlete.  Especially an athlete for whom swimming is not their first language.  Of more importance in my opinion is that your stroke go from full extension at the beginning of the stroke to full extension at your hip.

Notice that nowhere in my discussion of the freestyle stroke did I say anything about a kick.  We are all training for a triathlon - an endurance event.  Unless you have designs on a poor bike leg and an even worse run, you probably don’t want to burn up all you fuel kicking during the swim when you really aren’t going to gain anything from those kicking efforts.  The only thing I really have to say about the kick is that it helps to maintain balance in the water and it will help to drive body roll.

Common mistakes are not entering the water far enough forward, not going to full extension forward, not dropping the hand vertically at the beginning of the catch and probably the biggest mistake is not going to full extension at the end of the stroke.  Having a good body roll will naturally drive proper technique through the entire stroke.  Additionally, it will help prevent your legs from dropping.

Just offering my two cents.  Hope that helps. 

That there be some good dam stuff!  Thanks for posting!

Scott,

First off, glad to hear the doctors gave you the green lights!

Second, thanks for thew awesome swim technique post.  I have gone through two swim sessions now with extending my arm both forward before entry and all the way back to the hip after the catch and the balance issues I described earlier seemed to have work themselves out and better yet, I am faster than I was.  I have to say it is great having such an swimming authority in the group.

Approximately 8 weeks until my first tri of the season and still haven't gotten outside on the bike.  Was hoping to this weekend, but the "S"  word is being thrown around for weather still!!!

Todd

Got a few basic questions...

Great to hear that you're liking cycling so much.  I would recommend a basic fit for everyone and signs of discomfort are not the only reasons for getting a fit.  Pedaling efficiency and power generation are very dependent on proper fit.  Seat height will affect pedaling efficiency and power generation...in addition, the proper reach to ensure your arm angle is near 90 degrees on your aerobars ensures that your body weight is supported by your skeletal structure (which is more relaxed and reduces fatigue) rather than your arm and core muscles if you are extended too much (which will fatigue you more by forcing your muscles to support you).  Did the shop where you purchased the bike not include a basic fit in the purchase?  Taking a basic bike maintenance course is a great idea.  Preventative maintenance and simple things like learning how to change out a cassette are invaluable.

Maybe Scott can chime in on swim answers but if you feel like you are dying with every breath while swimming could also simply be a sign of lack of swim fitness.  Check out the training plans here on BT for basic swim workouts.  Also, I think having a local swim coach check out your stroke is always money well spent. 

I bought my bike at REI, and they don't do fittings. I just seem to be running out of money. I will look around at the local bike shops for a cheap fitting. 

I have been swimming 2-3x per week for the past few months. I may be exagerrating when I say that I am gasping for air. It seems to happen a lot after flip turns, once I have swam about 150 yards, and that is when I start to crumble. When I lose control of my breathing, I lose control of my stroke and don't focus on the power part of the stroke underwater. I just don't know how to fix it.

What amount of yardage and what types of workouts are you doing in the pool?  Without seeing you in person or in a video its very hard to figure out what's going on.  But it still sounds like there is a swim fitness issue going on.   I never do flip turns in the pool...I simply get nauseous when I do them for some reason.  Not doing flip turns is nothing to be ashamed of so I would suggest you not do them for a few workouts to see if it makes any difference.  But flip turns shouldn't be making you winded so much and that's why I think there is an underlying fitness issue.  That's not to say that its not compounded by improper swim stroke mechanics but its hard to tell from here.  If at all possible have someone look at your stroke. 

Welcome to the sport of Triathlon!  You will get used to that.

First, I agree with Jim that it is difficult to speak specifically without seeing your stroke.  That said, you have made a couple comments from which I can draw some general conclusions and make an observation or two.

You said in an earlier post "So I was a ridiculously bad swimmer growing up, and I was forced into an "Advanced" swimming class this semester."  From that I gather that you consider yourself a beginning swimmer.  You also said that your 500 time improved, so from that I assume you can at least swim 500 yards, however you also said "once I have swam about 150 yards, and that is when I start to crumble."

I think that swim fitness is definitely an issue, but that is OK.  Swim fitness is an issue for many veteran triathletes and it is fairly easy to improve.  However, of more importance, I suspect that your stroke technique may be holding you back a little bit.  If you go to http://goscottgo.info/index.php/swimming-technique I have several articles about the freestyle stroke on my website.  I cover the stroke (arms), kick, breathing, and body roll in detail.  Reading through those articles may help you gain a better understanding of the freestyle stroke in general.

A couple areas that beginners typically can improve -

1)  Breathing - if you aren't inhaling, you should be exhaling.  Most beginners and more than a few experienced swimmers don't exhale underwater.  That makes it much more difficult to inhale when you turn your head to breath.  You don't want to hold your breath.

2)  Body Roll - body roll is the foundation of a good freestyle stroke.  Most beginners have little or no body roll.  Proper body roll drives good entry, catch and pull.  It promotes not dragging your legs.  It helps develop proper breathing.  In my opinion, body roll is the single most important aspect of a good freestyle stroke.

3)  Full length stroke.  Most beginners have a very "choppy" stroke.  They enter the water to close to their head and they don't go to full extension on the pull.  Your stroke should be from full extension in front of you to your hip.

Three cheers for using a flip turn.  At this point however, I would lose the flip turn for a couple weeks.  I think it is probably more important to focus on your stroke mechanics and develop proper technique.  I would not worry about distance at this point.  I would only seek to get in the water 3-4 times a week.  When you get in the water, only swim as long as you can maintain PERFECT technique.  If that is 200 yards, so be it.  Tomorrow maybe you can go 225 yards.  In fairly short order, a few weeks or so, your stroke will become automatic.  Meaning you don't have to think about doing it right.  Once you have proper stroke mechanics you can begin to add distance and start to improve your swim fitness.

Finally, I would strongly suggest you find a "swim coach."  Someone that can view your stroke and offer suggestions to improve it.  I would seek someone that has more experience than "I just learned how to swim at the YMCA."  Ideally you want someone who has been involved with the sport for a number of years, first as a swimmer, than as a coach.

Hope that all helps a little bit.  Good luck!

COOL!!!  A longer stroke is a more efficient stroke.  Not only are you going faster, you are likely using considerably less energy than you were before the stroke changes.

Glad to see you're getting going again Scott.

Yeah, I don't recommend a month off!  Gonna take a couple weeks just to get back to where I was.

Hey got a question.  It has come to my attention that you may own a Speed Concepts 7.5?  I am thinking seriously about getting one.  Thoughts?  Opinions?  If you had it to do over again would you get the same bike?