Swbkrun mentor group - Closed (Page 25)

No racing here, as far as getting faster running I'd agree mostly with Julia, the more you run the faster you get. I don't think that means huge volumes, just regular running over several years. Training for a half marathon is a great way to get faster. Having said that, tempo runs once a week can be added at an earlier stage than other speed work and help you get used to holding a harder pace.

Sorry I've been absent lately.  Took a quick, unplanned trip to Sedona to see me folks last weekend.  Mom had been falling and passing out and I wanted to see what's up.  I came away convinced it's nothing major so that's all good!

But geez, it was cold there.  Record breaking really.  10° one morning.  That's cold to this S. Florida boy.

Anyway, on the workout questions I see others have asked about:  My favorite "speed" workout is a Wave Run.  A Wave run is where, after 2 or 3 miles of an easy warm up, you alternate "on" and "off legs.  The "on" legs at 10K pace and the "off" legs at EZ pace.  The distance can vary depending on what you're training for.  My fave is a mile distance Wave run.  Run a mile at 10K pace, then run a mile at EZ pace.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Then, of course a cool down mile at the end.

The beauty of the Wave run is that, with those nice long recoveries during the "off" portions, you're almost guaranteed to finish the entire workout successfully.  Tempo Runs are "Da Bomb" and Wave runs are my favorite Tempo workout.

As to the other question where the person was asking how to get faster.  I agree completely that building up a solid running base of weekly mileage over a long period of time is very important to long term running.  It may not help you get faster right away, but it WILL do it over time.  Trust us on this one.  Years though, not weeks.

Now, if the original poster is wanting immediate speed for a 5K coming up soon, then certainly some Intervals/Repeats are warranted.  But proceed with caution, as speed work, without a solid base of miles, is asking for an injury.

But I am always going to come down on the side of Base mileage for long term speed - with most weekly runs at an EZ pace with 1 or 2 workouts a week with some tempos at about 10K pace.

And after all, this is a Triathlon forum at it's core.  And basically, Triathlon training is Base, Base, Base I've come to believe.

Bill

I missed it....do tell.

Never mind, I found it.  LA is dead to me and I was one of his biggest believers.

I've seen a lot of hateful rhetoric on BT and other places about LA, but I'm not inclined that way.  I am choosing to focus on instead on the immense good that comes from the Livestrong Foundation.  I understand that the organization may be built on foundation of lies and fraud from its originator, but that in no way diminishes the immense number of good things that the foundation has done for hundreds of thousands of people.  I don't feel sad for LA, he is reaping what he has sown, but Livestrong shouldn't be taking flak in all this.

There, said my LA piece. 

On to more important matters - no racing for me!  I've never been particularly speedy, but I have to echo a couple of others on here - focus on base building, run slow lots and occasionally go out and push it some.  Biggest thumbs up for what fatty said - unless you are already at your ideal weight, you will see more improvements in speed on the run (bike too for that matter) through weight loss coupled with consistent base building type running.  Remember people - none of us are 17 anymore, so if you are gauging "speed" by what you once ran a mile or 5k in back in HS, then you are using the wrong measuring stick - especially if you have "used and abused" your body for years since then.

HR - Monitoring, I need some input.

First I know that 220 - age is wrong, however, since I am not in the shape enough to do the workout that is recommended on this site to get my Max HR, I chose to start there.  I say start there because as I was coming up the hill home last week I decided to see if I could reach my MHR since I was close anyway and I passed it.  So my new MHR is 186.

I have read that your MHR will be different from run to bike as well.  So I have just been monitoring my HR as I work out to get a feel for where I am.  It would seem that I tend to train in Zone 5 for running and Zone 3-4 for bike.

The stuff I have read say that I should be running in Zone 2-3 to build my aerobic tolerance.  Does this mean that running in Zone 4-5 isn't helping my endurance?  Should I focus on coming down to Zone 2-3 for my long days and then allow myself to Zone 4-5 for my Short runs?

I realize there are pobably as many opinions on this as there is on speed training, but I look forward to any information I can gleen.

Thanks,

Darin

Ok so no white jumpsuit for me.....I am really scared of the rain chances in Washington, anyway with it being in freezing temps I don't need any pictures out there. lol

Also my plan is to just keep running and be able to work through the side aches.... I'm really concentrating on my breathing and keeping a good solid rythmic pattern (Which is hard when doing intervals to work on speed). I know that if my breathing is good that my endurance will keep improving and my time and distance will get better.

If anyone has some advice on how to overcome this I would love to hear it.

When I get them I usually try to just concentrate on taking good even breaths and keep running. After a bit they go away but would like to not have them at all.

This should be fun...

Why would you be surprised? Why would you be surprised that a company CEO could potentially take back a celebrity endorser? I think it really all depends on the fallout or lack thereof from this interview. It's a free option for Phil. If Lance is viewed in a bit of a positive light again, Phil signs him back up again and prints money. If Lance has to hide behind a rock, then no harm no foul for Phil.

I think you mean 'disappointed' not 'surprised.' Business is business for these big boys. All about the $$.

Where is the exact location? and on what side?

fair enough. 

A couple of comments, Darin.  On point (1) above, it's not the Maximum HR that is different between run and bike.  It's the Threshold HR that will be different.  A person's MHR is the highest possible HR they can ever achieve.  That doesn't change.  There will generally be a 10 to 15 BPM difference between a run and bike Threshold HR.  The bike being lower.

On point (2), you're running Zone 5?  Yikes.  I betcha can't sustain that effort for very long!  Zones 1 and 2 build Endurance - the ability to go a long ways.  Zones 3 and 4 (aka Tempo paces) build Stamina - the ability to hold a solid pace for a long distance.

Bill

Ok so no white jumpsuit for me.....I am really scared of the rain chances in Washington, anyway with it being in freezing temps I don't need any pictures out there. lol

Also my plan is to just keep running and be able to work through the side aches.... I'm really concentrating on my breathing and keeping a good solid rythmic pattern (Which is hard when doing intervals to work on speed). I know that if my breathing is good that my endurance will keep improving and my time and distance will get better.

If anyone has some advice on how to overcome this I would love to hear it.

When I get them I usually try to just concentrate on taking good even breaths and keep running. After a bit they go away but would like to not have them at all.

Wow, lots of posts over the past few days!  First, I am very surprised that Suzy's race photo was not found by our super sleuth. 

No racing for me, but on the topic of speed, I would also err on the side of caution when it comes to speed work.  I have no doubt that doing intervals can work wonders but they can be a recipe for eventual injury, even if one does have the base to support it and even if they are at their ideal body weight.  (i am my own prime example!)

A lot depends on proper bio-mechanics, balance, core strength, mobility (including stretching, massage, foam rolling, etc), recovery, hydration, nutrition, and sleep, especially for us over 40 athletes! 

I am currently focusing on the highlighted portion and starting to slowly build my running up to 4x/week, easy only for 30-45 minutes.  We do some 200-400 meter sprints in my crossfit classes and I think that's plenty of speed work for me right now.  Hopefully, I can do a few tempo segments on my longer runs in the next month or so to see how I will hold up at my half marathon in March, but I am just happy to be running pain free right now, so I won't be pushing it! 

Not surprised at all by Lance Armstrong and the size of his ego.  Sadly, our society idolizes athletes as heroes, while the real heroes are right here in our every day life, our police officers, firefighters, soldiers, teachers and the list goes on...

Good luck on the Elvis run, gang!

Oh, on the topic of side stitches, I notice that I get those sometimes when I am not hydrated well, prior to a run.  When the weather is cooler as it is these days, I am not always the best when it comes to hydrating.  If it happens during a race as I am reaching beyond my fitness, then I need to dial it back just a smidge and remember to breathe deeply and it usually helps a lot.

Have a good week, everyone! 

A couple of comments, Darin.  On point (1) above, it's not the Maximum HR that is different between run and bike.  It's the Threshold HR that will be different.  A person's MHR is the highest possible HR they can ever achieve.  That doesn't change.  There will generally be a 10 to 15 BPM difference between a run and bike Threshold HR.  The bike being lower.

Lots of LT information here....

Where is the exact location? and on what side?

And now the Armstrong case starts to hit closer to home ......

Wall Street Journal Article

I have ridden with Jimmy Ochowicz (Currently the DS for BMC Bike Racing Team) on many occasions and ride with his brother Billy almost weekly.  Looking forward to hearing the "insiders" story when I get a chance.  I wondered with his ties to Team Motorola, if or when he was going to get "drug" into this mess.  Pun intended!     

thats so funny... i was renewing my wsj subscription this afternoon right before trevor posted his last.  then i saw that article.  then come over here and read trev's post.  started typing a reply, but since i'm cool calm and collected i let it go.

anyways...  oprah!!!

wait, what?

No racing here.  My run training is done mostly in mid to upper zone 2.  On longer runs, I likely drift into the low end of zone 3.   I would love to be able to do a little speed work, but based on previous experience have decided I will not try it again until I am able to maintain a weekly base of 45-50km.

Darin: with PF problems and a desire to do Oly and HIM distance races, I suggest you focus on slowly increasing your endurance base. Stay in zone 2 for a few months a see what happens to your PF and what happens to your average pace.   I will dig back through my notes.  I think there is a good description of what happens to your breathing pattern when you are in zone 2.